Carrying into friend/acquaintances' homes

Sefner · August 23, 2009, 03:16 PM

What does everyone do when they are invited to a party, dinner, whatever when it comes to concealed carry? Do you ask the home-owner if it's ok? Do you not carry? What are the factors? Obviously the area, your relationship with the person, etc will come into play, but how do they? And lastly, to stay on topic, what are the tactical advantages and disadvantages to any decision (for instance, the last thing you want to do is the courteous thing - asking the home owner - and then end up with them having a few too many adult beverages and start saying "hey let me see your gun" a little too loud)?

sakeneko · August 23, 2009, 03:21 PM

It wouldn't occur to me to ask, any more than I'd ask most store owners whether they allowed concealed carry. It really isn't their business to know that I'm carrying, any more than it would be their business to know about any other personal stuff I carry that doesn't affect them. I'd just be sure that the gun was in fact concealed properly. If there were small children about, I would also carry on my person so that no curious child would find it in a purse or fanny pack that I'd put down for a minute.

rburch · August 23, 2009, 03:50 PM

I think it depends on the person I'm visiting. If I know they don't approve of firearms, or I don't know them well enough to know if they do or not, then I probably won't ask, and will most likely just store my weapon in my car.

If I know they like guns then I'll probably ask them out of politeness.

Quote:

It wouldn't occur to me to ask, any more than I'd ask most store owners whether they allowed concealed carry. It really isn't their business to know that I'm carrying, any more than it would be their business to know about any other personal stuff I carry that doesn't affect them.

Sakeneko, check your laws, here in Virginia it's illegal to carry on private property if the owner decides he doesn't want people carrying there.

jgcoastie · August 23, 2009, 04:08 PM

In Alaska, you are required to obtain permission to carry in someone's home.

dabigguns357 · August 23, 2009, 04:14 PM

I'm going to put this practice of carrying on labor day weekend.We are having a family reunion and i'm going to carry for 2 reasons
(1) because i can and it will be mostly family there.
(2) because 3 or 4 of us usually have either guns on us or in our cars and end up target practicing further down the creek away from the houses and in-laws.

I do carry where ever i go and yes i've had whiners come up and say stupid stuff about it being safe and how quiet the hood is,

(yadda-yadda-yadda)I just keep carrying.If it's a must and people won't leave it alone,then leave it in the car.

redfisher43 · August 23, 2009, 04:24 PM

I'm with Sak & Slick Willy,
Don't ask, don't tell.

Trigger Finger · August 23, 2009, 04:53 PM

Don't ask, don't tell!
My friends know what I usually have and if they don't know me well enough that might even be a better reason to carry. Well concealed of course.

Phoebe · August 23, 2009, 07:15 PM

I'd be supremely angry if someone came into my home CC without my knowledge. My house is MY castle. And if someone wants to come in with a firearm, they better tell me.

In effect, I want control over what's coming into my house.

And if I had children, I'd be over-the-top frothing if someone came in carrying and I didn't know.

My house, my rules.

sakeneko · August 23, 2009, 07:17 PM

Really, rburch? Interesting, and thanks for posting that information. But I live in Nevada, and the elderly relatives I had in Virginia are long gone to their rewards. So the issue isn't likely to come up for me.

In Nevada, it's legal to carry anywhere that the law doesn't specifically forbid. A private property owner can request that you do not carry on his or her property, and if they catch you carrying, can ask you to leave. If you don't leave, you can be arrested for trespassing. There is no law broken otherwise. I also spend quite a bit of time in California, but there it isn't an issue because no non-resident permits are honored and California doesn't issue CCWs to non-residents either. So I can't carry there by law, and don't.

However, I don't carry into an establishment that has clearly posted signs saying that I can't. I might choose not to go to that establishment, of course, at least here in Nevada. ;-) I also wouldn't carry in someone's home if I knew they strongly disapproved of guns, but to be honest that's a hypothetical situation in my case. Most of my friends (including the leftists) are either indifferent to guns in the hands of law-abiding sane people or approve.

Edward429451 · August 23, 2009, 07:29 PM

If it's someones house that has been to my house, then they would know me and expect me to be armed. If it's someone else's house that I go to then I leave it in the car out of respect for them and their house, and if I can't leave it in the vehicle because my spidey sense is tingling...I either do not go in or do not tell and just be polite and respectful with an ace up my sleeve.

Jofaba · August 23, 2009, 07:58 PM

I saw this story on tv and it is actually one of the pivotal accounts that lead to me deciding to get my concealed carry permit.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19365762/detail.html

I'm sure if he asked, he would have been told to please keep his gun in his vehicle. And if the perps had accomplished their goal, all the women would have been raped, and all of them would have been killed.

I understand the "this is my house and I want to know what's happening inside it" argument, but you're essentially asking me to check my right to living long enough to leave your house at the door. Who knows who your kid p'd off at school that day? Who knows who might show up while I'm there? We don't get many drive bys or reltaliation mass murders up here in Maine, but I don't want my name listed along with "victim" as the country discusses how "that kind of thing NEVER happens there!".

I'm glad that while my father is against me carrying he hasn't laid down any rules, and knows that I've carried in his house. I can't say what I'd do if he did, but I'm glad that I didn't have to get into that conversation. But if I felt he could even align himself that way, I wouldn't have told him that I had even gotten a carry permit.

Now that I seem to have found a holster that I am (so far) getting comfortable with, I need to have "the talk" with my bosses. With my place of work, there is a lot more at stake than being asked to leave the premises if I'm found out.

Kyo · August 23, 2009, 08:15 PM

don't tell. no one knows anyway.

Phoebe · August 23, 2009, 08:17 PM

Jofaba, I wouldn't be asking someone to give up their right to defend themself. I'd be asking them to ask me...as queen of my own house, to be able to make my own decisions.

Then can then make the decision to not visit me if they don't like my decision.

I still contend, it is MY house. And what happens in MY house is, and should be, up to me.

I don't necessarily have a problem with someone carrying in my house. My ex-bf carried all the time, including in my house. But I was aware and was able to have informed consent. And I trusted him, trusted his skill, and trusted his judgment.

Just yesterday, someone flagged me with her gun. Granted, it wasn't my house...but if she asked me if she could visit my home and carry, the answer would be NO.

Grr! I feel really vehement about this subject, to the point of frothiness. But I guess I've said all that can said.

Kyo · August 23, 2009, 08:23 PM

some people like it when you have a gun. i would get asked at some houses how often i carry. "all the time, everywhere i can" and get smiles back cause they know people around me will have a better chance then not.

Sportdog · August 23, 2009, 08:27 PM

My first instinct in this thread was that I would not carry in someone's house but something happened on the way to my keyboard. The statements that your home is your castle and you want to control what comes into your home sounds good on the surface but when you think of it, it really smacks of GUN CONTROL. Somewhere along the line you are making a judgement against lawful carry and the second amendment rights that I consider near and dear. This is the kind of thinking that the gun control people use to further their cause. Would I carry in someone's home if it were illegal or they asked me not to. No, I would obey the law and honor their wishes but I would be troubled that the state of Michigan thought it was OK for me to carry and a person who I considered a friend did not.

Beentown71 · August 23, 2009, 08:30 PM

I have brought it up in casual conversations with almost anyone that I would visit their home. Most were just fine with it because they know me. Others that were a little hesitant with the anti arguements that filled their head because of schools and media filled with...sorry started to rant. Anyway I use it as a teaching moment. Maybe gain another new shooter.

And I agree with Kayla. If I don't really "know" you. You had better ask permission to carry in my home. Again, usually not an issue since I "know" 99% of the people that come into my home.

(Added as an edit) There are people who carry in my home that haven't asked. And with them it is OK. They are my close friends and family. We trust each other. My comments about asking are pointed towards strangers....stranger, danger!

Beentown

Sefner · August 23, 2009, 09:16 PM

Kayla I think you make a really good point. Do you have a set of standards that a person must meet before you let them carry? What would be things that would let you allow them to carry and things that would be red flags (other than poor muzzle awareness

). Also, how would you MOST PREFER to be approached about the situation? In other words, if I were to ask you if I could carry in your house, how would you like me to ask you if I could? Trying to see if there is a common thread there

Jofaba · August 23, 2009, 09:39 PM

Kayla, no offense, but while you don't think that you are making that requirement, you actually are.

Since you are pro-gun, you are just asking your gun friends to let you know what their pro-gun intentions are. That seems entirely reasonable to you. But what you're failing to realize, at least in my eyes, is that you are expecting your visitors to trust that you will side with them.

Say you were anti-gun, or someone with your same spirit and convictions but in the opposing side of the argument were to set similar "need to know" rules. You, or your doppelganger, would indeed be asking me to disarm at the door and subject my life to your ability to protect me from whatever unknowns.

If I came to your house as a friend who knew your gun rights position, I'd probably tell you, knowing that you'd appreciate the honesty, and yet would not ask me to change my ability to continue carrying.

If I came to your house as a stranger, I'd expect to be approached with a harsher sense of guidelines if I "came clean".

If I came to your house as a stranger and a liar, even if that sin was to maintain what I consider a comfortable level of self protection, then I would lie my butt off.

You do, absolutely, have every right in the world to know what happens within your household. But I carry so that I can have what I consider a comfortable level of self protection, regardless of my surroundings.

If your morals intersect my morals, I will protect my morals over yours.

Keep in mind we're talking about whether or not I'd carry a loaded concealed gun into your house. As a fellow gun owner and shooter, you know that only the crappiest guns have a chance of going off on their own, and you've got a 99 percent chance of me carrying around you and your family without a problem occurring that wasn't caused or initiated by someone who would do more harm to you and your family had I not had my firearm.

The debate seems to boil down to a more instinctual debate on whether the leader of the heard should have all power. It's instinctual and genetic. I really think that's the base of the debate. Otherwise, we're just two people expressing similar rights, while trespassing against each others established zones of ownership and regional control.

Beentown71 · August 23, 2009, 10:13 PM

I can see how someone could think of this scenario in more than one avenue. There would be no need for a "law" for this in my mind. My house, my laws as far as this is concerned.

Never thought I would say this after my Dad said it for so long but..."It is my house, my rules...If you don't like it leave."

Beentown

Phoebe · August 23, 2009, 10:15 PM

SportDog, I think you fail to understand that I have dominion over my own home. I make the gun control rules in my house. Not you. Not the government. ME!

I also have control over whether you can bring your dog, your kids, your drugs, your booze, and if I'm a vegetarian, maybe I decide I don't want meat in my house when I have a BBQ. I could even decide I don't want blue clothes in my house. I can have any crazy or reasonable rules that I want, because it's my house. (How many different ways can I say this? Apparently many!)

I cannot comprehend how anyone could possibly argue with the fact that what happens on my property is my decision...not yours.

Jofaba, if you don't like the rules of my house, you don't have to visit my house. What is difficult about that? How do your rights to bear arms trump my rights as the owner of my property and the final authority over what happens on my property?

Sefner, no particular standard and in fact, it would be a rare circumstance where I would tell someone, "no." Most gun folks I know are responsible and skilled.

If I had young children, my notions of who I'd allow to carry would probably narrow considerably, but since i don't have kids, I haven't put much thought into what my criteria would be.

My #1 issue is that I believe I have the right to control what's going on in my house.

Sefner, if you just indicated to me that you usually (or always) carry, you wouldn't even need to really ask. I could then just nod and smile or ask you to leave your gun in the car or whatever. I don't think it has to be some big thing. I just want to know what's in my house. Though aside from muzzle awareness, my other concern would be someone leaving the gun in an unsecure place...esp if I had young kids.

I am quite new to all of this, but some of what I've seen indicates that many people are not all that careful...about anything. I've seen finger on the trigger and poor muzzle control, even by some supposedly experienced people with way more experience than I have. And some of you want me to trust these people in my house?

Meh.

p.s. If you know someone is anti-gun, do you still think it's just fine to carry in their house?

p.s.s. It's not (directly) about guns. It's about my having authority over my own property and some of you don't seem to respect that or even understand that.

MY HOUSE. MY RULES. THE END.

BlackFeather · August 23, 2009, 10:25 PM

I dont care if someone is carrying in my house. However if it was a social gathering I would ask to have it put away, whether in my gun case, or another secured area. If I were going to someones house odds are they know, and if they have kids that hug or like to be played with, like most boys do, I would secure it somewhere else first...

fastforty · August 23, 2009, 10:25 PM

Most of my friends know my background, training and abilities. They are happy that I carry when I visit them.

We have one family of friends that have a LOT of kids & one parent has fleece instead of hair (you know what I mean). When visiting them, I've always stopped a block shy of their house and secured (locked) my unloaded weapon before I completed my journey. We highly value this friendship, and the last thing I would want to happen is for the sheep to start bleating "He had a GUN in my HOUSE?????" <Add blood curdling accent here> "My CHIIIILDDDRRRRRENNNNNNNNN!!!". After 4-5 years of knowing this family, the fact that I carry finally came out (the non-sheep parent suspected it all along). The fact that I could honestly say that I had never carried a firearm into their house probably saved our relationship with them, just the same.

There have been a few places that I've carried where what tiny chance of an ND would have been a real BIG deal, so I carried without a round chambered (hey, someone could bump you causing you to fall down steps, dislodge a broom stick on your way down, the end of the broomstick could find your trigger.... pretty far fetched, but freak ND's DO happen).

ATW525 · August 23, 2009, 10:27 PM

The way I see it, a concealed handgun is like underwear: whether I choose to wear it is nobody's business but my own and I darn sure ain't going to ask permission first. That said, a home owner is more than welcome to express their desire to keep their home firearm free, and I'll be more than happy to stop associating with them.

Mello2u · August 23, 2009, 10:31 PM

We have all got to agree that there is a difference between a private individual determining who and what enters his/her home and the "STATE" making laws which infringe upon the right of the People to bear arms.

An individual has no right to enter the land or home of someone else. An individual who is invited to enter the land or into the home of someone may have that permission revoked at any time for any reason.

The 2nd Amendment prohibits the federal government (and maybe the 50 states too) from infringing the People's right to keep and bear arms. A home owner who prohibits your entry into his home due to your possession of a firearm is not a 2nd Amendment issue.

I think it is a courtesy to let the home owner know that you are carrying a weapon. If they don't want you to carry a weapon in their home you are free to leave or store the weapon in your vehicle. I would choose to leave.

Phoebe · August 23, 2009, 10:37 PM

Whew! Thank you Mello! That is a far more elegant statement of what I've been trying to say.

Privately, I've also been told some may worry that it's some slippery slope from homeowner's rights to jail for accidentally carrying into someone's house. It may be a somewhat reasonable argument. But I still believe my house is my kingdom and I get to rule it however I want -- reasonably or unreasonably, as is my right.

August 23, 2009, 04:08 PM	#4
jgcoastie Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 2,118	In Alaska, you are required to obtain permission to carry in someone's home. __________________ "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.

August 23, 2009, 04:24 PM	#6
redfisher43 Member Join Date: December 3, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 34	I'm with Sak & Slick Willy, Don't ask, don't tell. __________________ Redfisher43

August 23, 2009, 04:53 PM	#7
Trigger Finger Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 375	Don't ask, don't tell! My friends know what I usually have and if they don't know me well enough that might even be a better reason to carry. Well concealed of course. __________________ Land of the Free Because of the Brave!

August 23, 2009, 08:30 PM	#16
Beentown71 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,560	I have brought it up in casual conversations with almost anyone that I would visit their home. Most were just fine with it because they know me. Others that were a little hesitant with the anti arguements that filled their head because of schools and media filled with...sorry started to rant. Anyway I use it as a teaching moment. Maybe gain another new shooter. And I agree with Kayla. If I don't really "know" you. You had better ask permission to carry in my home. Again, usually not an issue since I "know" 99% of the people that come into my home. (Added as an edit) There are people who carry in my home that haven't asked. And with them it is OK. They are my close friends and family. We trust each other. My comments about asking are pointed towards strangers....stranger, danger! Beentown __________________ Μολὼν λάβε Time for the Mall Ninja list: Beretta 92fs, Springer XD9, High Standard Model HB, RRA bull bbl...aw heck with it time to go plink Last edited by Beentown71; August 23, 2009 at 08:34 PM. Reason: caveut

August 23, 2009, 10:13 PM	#19
Beentown71 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,560	I can see how someone could think of this scenario in more than one avenue. There would be no need for a "law" for this in my mind. My house, my laws as far as this is concerned. Never thought I would say this after my Dad said it for so long but..."It is my house, my rules...If you don't like it leave." Beentown __________________ Μολὼν λάβε Time for the Mall Ninja list: Beretta 92fs, Springer XD9, High Standard Model HB, RRA bull bbl...aw heck with it time to go plink

August 23, 2009, 03:16 PM	#1
Sefner Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 769	Carrying into friend/acquaintances' homes What does everyone do when they are invited to a party, dinner, whatever when it comes to concealed carry? Do you ask the home-owner if it's ok? Do you not carry? What are the factors? Obviously the area, your relationship with the person, etc will come into play, but how do they? And lastly, to stay on topic, what are the tactical advantages and disadvantages to any decision (for instance, the last thing you want to do is the courteous thing - asking the home owner - and then end up with them having a few too many adult beverages and start saying "hey let me see your gun" a little too loud)?

August 23, 2009, 03:21 PM	#2
sakeneko Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 644	It wouldn't occur to me to ask, any more than I'd ask most store owners whether they allowed concealed carry. It really isn't their business to know that I'm carrying, any more than it would be their business to know about any other personal stuff I carry that doesn't affect them. I'd just be sure that the gun was in fact concealed properly. If there were small children about, I would also carry on my person so that no curious child would find it in a purse or fanny pack that I'd put down for a minute.

August 23, 2009, 04:14 PM	#5
dabigguns357 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Location: Ona,West Virginia Posts: 1,215	I'm going to put this practice of carrying on labor day weekend.We are having a family reunion and i'm going to carry for 2 reasons (1) because i can and it will be mostly family there. (2) because 3 or 4 of us usually have either guns on us or in our cars and end up target practicing further down the creek away from the houses and in-laws. I do carry where ever i go and yes i've had whiners come up and say stupid stuff about it being safe and how quiet the hood is, (yadda-yadda-yadda)I just keep carrying.If it's a must and people won't leave it alone,then leave it in the car.

August 23, 2009, 07:15 PM	#8
Phoebe Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 192	I'd be supremely angry if someone came into my home CC without my knowledge. My house is MY castle. And if someone wants to come in with a firearm, they better tell me. In effect, I want control over what's coming into my house. And if I had children, I'd be over-the-top frothing if someone came in carrying and I didn't know. My house, my rules.

August 23, 2009, 07:17 PM	#9
sakeneko Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 644	Really, rburch? Interesting, and thanks for posting that information. But I live in Nevada, and the elderly relatives I had in Virginia are long gone to their rewards. So the issue isn't likely to come up for me. In Nevada, it's legal to carry anywhere that the law doesn't specifically forbid. A private property owner can request that you do not carry on his or her property, and if they catch you carrying, can ask you to leave. If you don't leave, you can be arrested for trespassing. There is no law broken otherwise. I also spend quite a bit of time in California, but there it isn't an issue because no non-resident permits are honored and California doesn't issue CCWs to non-residents either. So I can't carry there by law, and don't. However, I don't carry into an establishment that has clearly posted signs saying that I can't. I might choose not to go to that establishment, of course, at least here in Nevada. ;-) I also wouldn't carry in someone's home if I knew they strongly disapproved of guns, but to be honest that's a hypothetical situation in my case. Most of my friends (including the leftists) are either indifferent to guns in the hands of law-abiding sane people or approve.

August 23, 2009, 07:29 PM	#10
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	If it's someones house that has been to my house, then they would know me and expect me to be armed. If it's someone else's house that I go to then I leave it in the car out of respect for them and their house, and if I can't leave it in the vehicle because my spidey sense is tingling...I either do not go in or do not tell and just be polite and respectful with an ace up my sleeve.

August 23, 2009, 07:58 PM	#11
Jofaba Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2009 Posts: 322	I saw this story on tv and it is actually one of the pivotal accounts that lead to me deciding to get my concealed carry permit. http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19365762/detail.html I'm sure if he asked, he would have been told to please keep his gun in his vehicle. And if the perps had accomplished their goal, all the women would have been raped, and all of them would have been killed. I understand the "this is my house and I want to know what's happening inside it" argument, but you're essentially asking me to check my right to living long enough to leave your house at the door. Who knows who your kid p'd off at school that day? Who knows who might show up while I'm there? We don't get many drive bys or reltaliation mass murders up here in Maine, but I don't want my name listed along with "victim" as the country discusses how "that kind of thing NEVER happens there!". I'm glad that while my father is against me carrying he hasn't laid down any rules, and knows that I've carried in his house. I can't say what I'd do if he did, but I'm glad that I didn't have to get into that conversation. But if I felt he could even align himself that way, I wouldn't have told him that I had even gotten a carry permit. Now that I seem to have found a holster that I am (so far) getting comfortable with, I need to have "the talk" with my bosses. With my place of work, there is a lot more at stake than being asked to leave the premises if I'm found out.

August 23, 2009, 08:15 PM	#12
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	don't tell. no one knows anyway.

August 23, 2009, 08:17 PM	#13
Phoebe Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 192	Jofaba, I wouldn't be asking someone to give up their right to defend themself. I'd be asking them to ask me...as queen of my own house, to be able to make my own decisions. Then can then make the decision to not visit me if they don't like my decision. I still contend, it is MY house. And what happens in MY house is, and should be, up to me. I don't necessarily have a problem with someone carrying in my house. My ex-bf carried all the time, including in my house. But I was aware and was able to have informed consent. And I trusted him, trusted his skill, and trusted his judgment. Just yesterday, someone flagged me with her gun. Granted, it wasn't my house...but if she asked me if she could visit my home and carry, the answer would be NO. Grr! I feel really vehement about this subject, to the point of frothiness. But I guess I've said all that can said.

August 23, 2009, 08:23 PM	#14
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	some people like it when you have a gun. i would get asked at some houses how often i carry. "all the time, everywhere i can" and get smiles back cause they know people around me will have a better chance then not.

August 23, 2009, 08:27 PM	#15
Sportdog Junior member Join Date: February 28, 2006 Location: Southwestern Michigan Posts: 369	My first instinct in this thread was that I would not carry in someone's house but something happened on the way to my keyboard. The statements that your home is your castle and you want to control what comes into your home sounds good on the surface but when you think of it, it really smacks of GUN CONTROL. Somewhere along the line you are making a judgement against lawful carry and the second amendment rights that I consider near and dear. This is the kind of thinking that the gun control people use to further their cause. Would I carry in someone's home if it were illegal or they asked me not to. No, I would obey the law and honor their wishes but I would be troubled that the state of Michigan thought it was OK for me to carry and a person who I considered a friend did not.

August 23, 2009, 09:16 PM	#17
Sefner Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 769	Kayla I think you make a really good point. Do you have a set of standards that a person must meet before you let them carry? What would be things that would let you allow them to carry and things that would be red flags (other than poor muzzle awareness ). Also, how would you MOST PREFER to be approached about the situation? In other words, if I were to ask you if I could carry in your house, how would you like me to ask you if I could? Trying to see if there is a common thread there

August 23, 2009, 09:39 PM	#18
Jofaba Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2009 Posts: 322	Kayla, no offense, but while you don't think that you are making that requirement, you actually are. Since you are pro-gun, you are just asking your gun friends to let you know what their pro-gun intentions are. That seems entirely reasonable to you. But what you're failing to realize, at least in my eyes, is that you are expecting your visitors to trust that you will side with them. Say you were anti-gun, or someone with your same spirit and convictions but in the opposing side of the argument were to set similar "need to know" rules. You, or your doppelganger, would indeed be asking me to disarm at the door and subject my life to your ability to protect me from whatever unknowns. If I came to your house as a friend who knew your gun rights position, I'd probably tell you, knowing that you'd appreciate the honesty, and yet would not ask me to change my ability to continue carrying. If I came to your house as a stranger, I'd expect to be approached with a harsher sense of guidelines if I "came clean". If I came to your house as a stranger and a liar, even if that sin was to maintain what I consider a comfortable level of self protection, then I would lie my butt off. You do, absolutely, have every right in the world to know what happens within your household. But I carry so that I can have what I consider a comfortable level of self protection, regardless of my surroundings. If your morals intersect my morals, I will protect my morals over yours. Keep in mind we're talking about whether or not I'd carry a loaded concealed gun into your house. As a fellow gun owner and shooter, you know that only the crappiest guns have a chance of going off on their own, and you've got a 99 percent chance of me carrying around you and your family without a problem occurring that wasn't caused or initiated by someone who would do more harm to you and your family had I not had my firearm. The debate seems to boil down to a more instinctual debate on whether the leader of the heard should have all power. It's instinctual and genetic. I really think that's the base of the debate. Otherwise, we're just two people expressing similar rights, while trespassing against each others established zones of ownership and regional control.

August 23, 2009, 10:15 PM	#20
Phoebe Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 192	SportDog, I think you fail to understand that I have dominion over my own home. I make the gun control rules in my house. Not you. Not the government. ME! I also have control over whether you can bring your dog, your kids, your drugs, your booze, and if I'm a vegetarian, maybe I decide I don't want meat in my house when I have a BBQ. I could even decide I don't want blue clothes in my house. I can have any crazy or reasonable rules that I want, because it's my house. (How many different ways can I say this? Apparently many!) I cannot comprehend how anyone could possibly argue with the fact that what happens on my property is my decision...not yours. Jofaba, if you don't like the rules of my house, you don't have to visit my house. What is difficult about that? How do your rights to bear arms trump my rights as the owner of my property and the final authority over what happens on my property? Sefner, no particular standard and in fact, it would be a rare circumstance where I would tell someone, "no." Most gun folks I know are responsible and skilled. If I had young children, my notions of who I'd allow to carry would probably narrow considerably, but since i don't have kids, I haven't put much thought into what my criteria would be. My #1 issue is that I believe I have the right to control what's going on in my house. Sefner, if you just indicated to me that you usually (or always) carry, you wouldn't even need to really ask. I could then just nod and smile or ask you to leave your gun in the car or whatever. I don't think it has to be some big thing. I just want to know what's in my house. Though aside from muzzle awareness, my other concern would be someone leaving the gun in an unsecure place...esp if I had young kids. I am quite new to all of this, but some of what I've seen indicates that many people are not all that careful...about anything. I've seen finger on the trigger and poor muzzle control, even by some supposedly experienced people with way more experience than I have. And some of you want me to trust these people in my house? Meh. p.s. If you know someone is anti-gun, do you still think it's just fine to carry in their house? p.s.s. It's not (directly) about guns. It's about my having authority over my own property and some of you don't seem to respect that or even understand that. MY HOUSE. MY RULES. THE END.

August 23, 2009, 10:25 PM	#21
BlackFeather Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2009 Location: West Coast Posts: 450	I dont care if someone is carrying in my house. However if it was a social gathering I would ask to have it put away, whether in my gun case, or another secured area. If I were going to someones house odds are they know, and if they have kids that hug or like to be played with, like most boys do, I would secure it somewhere else first... __________________ "Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men." - Miyamoto Musashi [Insert random irrelevant religious quote here]

August 23, 2009, 10:25 PM	#22
fastforty Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1999 Location: In a kornfield in kalifornia Posts: 1,161	Most of my friends know my background, training and abilities. They are happy that I carry when I visit them. We have one family of friends that have a LOT of kids & one parent has fleece instead of hair (you know what I mean). When visiting them, I've always stopped a block shy of their house and secured (locked) my unloaded weapon before I completed my journey. We highly value this friendship, and the last thing I would want to happen is for the sheep to start bleating "He had a GUN in my HOUSE?????" <Add blood curdling accent here> "My CHIIIILDDDRRRRRENNNNNNNNN!!!". After 4-5 years of knowing this family, the fact that I carry finally came out (the non-sheep parent suspected it all along). The fact that I could honestly say that I had never carried a firearm into their house probably saved our relationship with them, just the same. There have been a few places that I've carried where what tiny chance of an ND would have been a real BIG deal, so I carried without a round chambered (hey, someone could bump you causing you to fall down steps, dislodge a broom stick on your way down, the end of the broomstick could find your trigger.... pretty far fetched, but freak ND's DO happen). __________________ When Banjos are outlawed, only Outlaws will have Banjos The Bible is my lawbook. I turn the other cheek when applicable, and spend the rest of my days resisting evil at every front, until I have breathed my last breath.

August 23, 2009, 10:27 PM	#23
ATW525 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Concord, NH Posts: 2,723	The way I see it, a concealed handgun is like underwear: whether I choose to wear it is nobody's business but my own and I darn sure ain't going to ask permission first. That said, a home owner is more than welcome to express their desire to keep their home firearm free, and I'll be more than happy to stop associating with them.

August 23, 2009, 10:31 PM	#24
Mello2u Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,424	We have all got to agree that there is a difference between a private individual determining who and what enters his/her home and the "STATE" making laws which infringe upon the right of the People to bear arms. An individual has no right to enter the land or home of someone else. An individual who is invited to enter the land or into the home of someone may have that permission revoked at any time for any reason. The 2nd Amendment prohibits the federal government (and maybe the 50 states too) from infringing the People's right to keep and bear arms. A home owner who prohibits your entry into his home due to your possession of a firearm is not a 2nd Amendment issue. I think it is a courtesy to let the home owner know that you are carrying a weapon. If they don't want you to carry a weapon in their home you are free to leave or store the weapon in your vehicle. I would choose to leave. __________________ NRA Life Member - Orange Gunsite Member - NRA Certified Pistol Instructor "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." Frederic Bastiat

August 23, 2009, 10:37 PM	#25
Phoebe Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 192	Whew! Thank you Mello! That is a far more elegant statement of what I've been trying to say. Privately, I've also been told some may worry that it's some slippery slope from homeowner's rights to jail for accidentally carrying into someone's house. It may be a somewhat reasonable argument. But I still believe my house is my kingdom and I get to rule it however I want -- reasonably or unreasonably, as is my right.