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Old June 20, 2002, 04:45 PM   #1
bullet44
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petition for troops on our borders

If you think we should use troops on our
borders please go the the following website
and sign congressman Tom Tancredo's
petition.

http://www.house.gov/tancredo/
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Old June 20, 2002, 05:30 PM   #2
Ledbetter
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Done

Next?
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Old June 21, 2002, 07:36 PM   #3
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Done!!

Next
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Old June 21, 2002, 08:20 PM   #4
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So the talk about the militarization of the police is out the window, huh?
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Old June 21, 2002, 09:08 PM   #5
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Done.Thanks for the reminder.
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Old June 21, 2002, 09:30 PM   #6
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Think I'll have to pass on this one.
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Old June 22, 2002, 12:22 PM   #7
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At the risk of repeating myself: the combat divisions of the United States Army and Marine Corps are there to fight wars, not to play traffic cop in Absurdistan, or border guard at the Mexican border to satisfy the emotions of either liberal or conservative do-gooder desk warriors. If you think the border needs more guards, apply for a job with the U.S.Border Patrol.
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Old June 22, 2002, 12:26 PM   #8
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Nothing degrades a combat unit's effectiveness faster than garrison duty...
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Old June 22, 2002, 12:31 PM   #9
KSFreeman
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Tamara, tsk, tsk, the militree does not exist to fight. It exists to make vote rich states feel better about themselves without solving any problems. Come now, you should know that!
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Old June 22, 2002, 12:51 PM   #10
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British generals Gage, Clinton and Cornwallis would have been proud of you. I hope you step proudly forward to offer to quarter troops at your house, lil44.
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Old June 22, 2002, 01:13 PM   #11
KSFreeman
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Now, now, M&M, look what a bang up job the Brits did with garrisoning Boston!

People always think they feel safer with the soldati all lined up shoulder to shoulder, but that's not what wins wars. The militree must have the proper intel to go and find the new Barbary pirates and kill them. We must protect ourselves and that includes those rugged individualists in the hairy-chested West. Of course, this task is made harder by the morons in D.C. and Sacramento.

Of course, history is replete with examples of the "protectors" being used to tyrannize the "protectees" as M&M pointed out.
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Old June 22, 2002, 01:39 PM   #12
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No thanks.

I would support some anti-aircraft artillery set up at Ft. Hancock, Sandy Hook. Also reactivate the New York Harbor mines to take care of pirated LPG tankers.
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Old June 23, 2002, 02:28 PM   #13
bullet44
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Like it or not border "control", legal and
illegal immigration is an important issue
and will become in a few short years
critical, those of you less then 30 will
will see a time of no cars for the average
working guy, as in mass transit, homes
and 2 car garage gone, much due to over
population.
Right now each day approx. 1900+ illegals
enter the country(low est. I think) combine this with legal immigration and you can see the problem we face. All of the southwest has school funding problems, hospitals can't stay open, etc Not enough property owners to fund
it all.


We have more and more un-skilled workers coming in and more factories
going out of country, at some point
system will fail..

How can we speak of homeland security
and not protect our borders, by army,
border patrol take your choice but it
needs to be done.!
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Old June 23, 2002, 03:10 PM   #14
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So, now you want the militree to enforce domestic law?

The country is not "full." The entire earf's population could move to Tejas and it would have the same density as New York City.

No cars for the "average man." Why would that be? Will Algore be elected president?

Skul funding problems? Easy, if you do not pay, you cannot go to skul.

All the Erlichesque "problems" you claim are best addressed with more freedom, not more government.

Troops on the borders is a soccermommie feel good remedy for politically powerful sunbelt states. The government maintains a miltree to control its people, not protect them.

Immigrants come here to work to build better lives for themselves. They do because the native born will not.

Immigrants are more productive and patriotic than the native born on the couch waiting for WIC vouchers. If you wish to reduce the incentives for immigrants to come here, all it takes is a stroke of a pen, not troops on the border or other window dressing.
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Old June 23, 2002, 09:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Like it or not border "control", legal and illegal immigration is an important issue
Sure it is. But the US is like a big pot of honey with nothing over it but a thin screen full of holes. Border control is just a wast of time, cause if nothing else fungus will come through the screen.

So the best way to fix it is to use the Saudi method. No citizens perks at all for noncitizens. No children of noncitizens get citizenship. No welfare no food stamps no health care no property rights no nuthin. Not even a job except for specific indenture contracts. Ain't noboddy gonna stay in Saudi territory when their job runs out!
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Old June 23, 2002, 09:28 PM   #16
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Done and shared the link.
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Old June 23, 2002, 09:43 PM   #17
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Bullet,

That looks like something I read in history class in college back in mid-1980s.

It was originally penned in the 1890s...
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Old June 23, 2002, 10:13 PM   #18
Art Eatman
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More control of the Borders, yes. Using the military, no way, no how!

Don't need any more dead teenagers, among other problems.

Texas, by the way, needs an extra 100 guys in the Border Patrol, as well as additional BPs; that's how many are leaving the BP, here, to become Air Marshalls.

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Old June 24, 2002, 12:20 AM   #19
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"leaving to become Air Marshalls..."

US Capitol Police is down 265 people, and hemmohraging more every day.

US Park Police is down, nationwide, something like 400. Ditto.

Secret Service Uniformed isn't in much better shape.
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Old June 24, 2002, 12:27 AM   #20
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Agree

I agree with those above that say expand the Border Patrol and Immigration staffs. We shouldn't use our military for work like that, it will only complicate their training since law enforcement and border control training is a whole different ball game than military combat training ie. escalation of force guidlines etc.

Anybody remember what happened on one of the JTF-6 missions?







S/F
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Old June 24, 2002, 10:56 AM   #21
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Pinky, I hear you. What I don't understand is that the same persons crying about the "militarization" of the police and the use of the military at such places as Waco where the Dreaded D was shooting citizens are continually whining for the militree to guard the border. It seems inconsistent, no?
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Old June 24, 2002, 12:01 PM   #22
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I don't think this would be as big of a problem as it is if we were to just reverse our march towards Socialism. Won't happen though.
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Old June 24, 2002, 12:36 PM   #23
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No military for the borders. In this context, the constitution is violated. More BP agents with the right tools to get the job done.
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Old June 24, 2002, 12:57 PM   #24
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I’d be happy to support and even petition for, troops on the border once six things have been met (BTW the first three apply to every instance where gov’t intervention is considered as an option).
1) Gov’t is granted the authority to do such things (check)
2) There is a true and necessary need for such gov’t intervention (debatable, but possibly check)
3) The private sector cannot acceptably solve the problem (again debatable but I’ll give it to you, check)
4) Other, less intrusive solutions have failed (no way has this been done)
5) The initial measures are at the lowest level of gov’t and the lowest level of intervention possible (definitely no check)
6) Escalation of gov’t involvement (i.e. from Border Patrol to military) only happens when the lesser methods cannot handle the problem (again no check)


If those six things were satisfied then I would be willing to consider the extremely dangerous (to our liberty) measure of putting troops on the border as a viable option to solving the “problem of illegal immigration”. Since it could easily be argued that only one of those six have been met (constitutional authority) then you sure will not get me to support such a move. In fact I’d do everything within my power to keep it from happening. Troops on the border is a very, very dangerous move by the gov’t. It sets all sorts of precedents that I would just as soon not have set. The actual housing of troops down there in and of itself isn’t necessarily so dangerous (note the word necessarily), but it puts us on a road that I don’t want to tell my kids 20 or 30 years from now that I helped start. Ideas and actions have consequences and I don’t like the consequences of this idea.
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Old June 25, 2002, 01:00 AM   #25
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KSFreeman

ROFLMAO

You are 100% correct in my opinion, it is inconsistant. It just goes to show you that the most vocal (in our society) have a tendancy to forget to engage brain before opening spew hole (unfortunately me included sometimes). Either that or they don't really understand the mission of the military and just how difficult it is to re-train for what Tamara aptly calls garrison duty.

Don't get me wrong, the guys I served with were a great bunch of human beings, but to not put too fine a point on it, some of them were "one trick ponys" and I would not want them checking my paperwork at the Canadian or Mexican border.
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