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Old October 24, 2002, 10:26 AM   #1
griz
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Bad features for a defensive handgun

I’ve seen several posts on what people want in a serious defense handgun. Now tell me what features would positively STOP you from buying a gun. Not necessarily a carry gun, but one you would rely on for self defense. My show stoppers are:

1. Magazine disconnect safety. I don’t want the gun disabled at any time.
2. Safety that works "backwards". After becoming familiar with safeties that are thumbed down to fire, I don’t want any confusion under stress.

What are yours?
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Old October 24, 2002, 10:50 AM   #2
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My home defense handgun is a Ruger GP-100 4" steel loaded with 158 grain .38 special +p JHP. The reason I have this available as opposed to my semi-auto is that I know that this gun will never fail on me. I will never jam, never need to clear a jam, never fumble over a safety. Its like Windows, just point and click, without the poor reliability. So I guess my "bad feature" would be questionable reliability.
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Old October 24, 2002, 10:59 AM   #3
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You guys already mentioned the three most important ones IMO.

The next issues would be caliber and capacity.

I would never buy a single or double shot only, or a caliber of .22 or .25. A .32 would be marginal for me. Anything bigger ok.
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Old October 24, 2002, 10:59 AM   #4
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I'll take a crack at this.

For me:

1) Any double/single action pistol. Make the first shot count! The change of trigger pull drives me nuts.

2) If its gotta be a double single, it can't have a safety. I like the Beretta G models or the Sig style.

3) Any gun that is hard to service or hard to get parts for. There are lots of cool (but obscure) pistols out there that I'd consider, but for parts/service availability. Best if the average idiot (me) can solve common problems.

4) Anything shown to be the least bit unreliable.
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Old October 24, 2002, 11:15 AM   #5
Mike Irwin
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Porting, especially on a short barreled revolver.
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Old October 24, 2002, 11:19 AM   #6
Sundance
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I agree on the reliability one.

I agree on the mag disconnect safety one.

I will add porting...don't like porting on any gun, especially one intended for "up close and personal" or low light work.

And I will add really long barrels (over 5 in an auto or over 4 or 5 in a revolver)...unneccessary for range at which a self-defense shooting would occur, and a lever or handle for someone to get a hold of to get your gun away from you in a struggle.

Also, adjustable sights I can take or leave but would just as soon leave. Not necessary for other than target shooting or long range hunting and just something else to break.

I am sure I will think or others, but that is all for now...
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Old October 24, 2002, 11:21 AM   #7
Sundance
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It appears Mike snuck in porting ahead of me while I was busy typing. Quit typing so fast Mike! I only type with my trigger fingers.
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Old October 24, 2002, 11:58 AM   #8
Kermit
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The 2 I stear clear from are porting & the mag disconnect.
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Old October 24, 2002, 12:19 PM   #9
meat
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Which semiauto's use a magazine disconnect? Do any popular brands use this?
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Old October 24, 2002, 12:37 PM   #10
Correia
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Mag disconnects: Browning Hi-Power, S&W 3rd generation.

I wouldn't rule out a gun because of the mag disconnect. In fact it has proven handy a few times for people who work in professions where they may be subject to a disarm attempt.
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Old October 24, 2002, 01:08 PM   #11
Crimson Trace
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Quick, funny story. re: barrel porting

Well its funny, because it didn't happen to me.

We were doing some range training with a local group and one our guy is demonstrating shooting from awkward or compromised positions. With his brand new Taurus Ti revolver. (compensated)

Goes to a tight retention position, lights up the target, puts one shot in the head and gets absolutely fragged with gasses venting up all over his chest and up (UNDER) his glasses.

He was fine, so it was OK to laugh.

-Z
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Old October 24, 2002, 01:28 PM   #12
Ala Dan
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For A CCW Piece-

I would not want a weapon with adjustable sight's,
for fear that the sharp edges might snag on clothing.
Also, I don't care for bright, shiney finishes on a CCW
piece; cuz in this day and time you need the element
of suprise on your side!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
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Old October 24, 2002, 01:46 PM   #13
Sundance
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Quote:
I wouldn't rule out a gun because of the mag disconnect. In fact it has proven handy a few times for people who work in professions where they may be subject to a disarm attempt.
I am not saying that this isn't true, Correia, but I am going to ask you to prove it. I hear this said over and over, but I think it is a purely hypothetical issue. If you can provide me with proof/actual documentation of an actual real life incident where this has been true, I would love to hear it...really I would. Otherwise I will continue to call B.S. on this argument. I think it is one of those urban legends of gunlore.
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Old October 24, 2002, 03:11 PM   #14
MikeJ
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The one feature that I don't like on a defensive gun is a safety. In fact, I prefer DA revolvers and DAO pistols for defensive purposes. I use a Beretta Cougar DAO in .40, a S&W 66 snub, a S&W 640 Centennial and a NAA Guardian in .32 for my defensive weapons. I don't want to think about anything other than pointing and shooting if that day ever comes when I need to defend myself. I love SA (1911's & BHP) and DA/SA pistols for fun range time but not for serious application.
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Old October 24, 2002, 05:49 PM   #15
KSFreeman
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Not want?

1. bad trigger,
2. tiny sights,
3. double action,
4. dinguses,
5. sharp edges,
6. big, melted hubcaps where mag release should be,
7. Anything that does not need to be on the weapon (wells, extended this or that, laser/phasers or wind speed indicators),
8. Anything advertised in a gun rag.
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Old October 24, 2002, 06:12 PM   #16
Al Thompson
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Sundance, Ayoob has (claims) to have documented several (+10, IIRC) saves. I can take it or leave it, I'm not rassiling folks for a living like an LEO. If I was a LEO, I'd want the option or at least a level II or better retention holster.

Back on topic - I don't care for ports and for CWP, adjustable sights or extended anything - less snags the better. Having snagged the fool out of my self at my last IDPA match, it's a new revelation.

Reliability is the number one thing with me however. I have gotten "spooked" by guns that jammed and I could not ID the reason. Once I lost confidence, the gun goes away.
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Old October 24, 2002, 06:13 PM   #17
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I don't want a defensive CCW weapon that is fat and very much customized, as this will snag to your shirt or to anything that covers it.

I like a defensive weapon that is very basic like the 1911 platform out from the box that works (meaning, it will always go bang everytime I pull the trigger). That is what I need for self defense only, it will never misfire.

For a showy gun then, I like to see the most customize, for others may envy to the beauty appearance of it.

Last edited by shy_man; October 24, 2002 at 11:59 PM.
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Old October 24, 2002, 06:52 PM   #18
biere
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Anything more complicated than some of the simplest handguns.

I compare revolvers to rugers in most cases, and mag fed to glocks in most cases.

There are simpler ones out there, but something that is not a robust reliable design is a non-starter.

And it needs to be in a caliber I like.
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Old October 24, 2002, 09:44 PM   #19
Blue Duck357
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Mag disconnect and manual safeties fine by me.

Main thing that would eliminate a gun for me is being unproven. Seems even guns well regarded now often had growing pains their first few years, so I never rush out to buy the newest toy on the block. Once it's been around ten years or so I'll take a look at it.

Bells, whisltles and tactical nonsense also turn me off pretty quick. Oh and if the they call it the "Lady Reno" or "Rosienator" I'd pretty much pass
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Old October 24, 2002, 11:48 PM   #20
Ladybug
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Bad features for a defensive handgun

Well, having very recently bought a gun that I hate... I can tell you!
- A gun I can't hit anything with for whatever reason
- Double-action
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Old October 25, 2002, 12:02 AM   #21
shy_man
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Lady bug, you made me giggle in front of my PC when you mention Double-Action.
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Old October 25, 2002, 12:08 AM   #22
boing
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Slide mounted safeties.

That area of the gun is reserved for manipulating the slide, like in an emergency(doh!).

Don't put fumbly things there.
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Old October 25, 2002, 12:09 AM   #23
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I wouldn't buy a gun for home or self defense with a poor record of reliability, poor trigger, or poor quality of manufacture, but I'd use whatever I could get my hands on for same.
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Old October 25, 2002, 02:48 AM   #24
OkieCruffler
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I want my carry gun to be super simple. DAO with no external safety. Anything else I might take to the range, but it won't go in my pocket.
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Old October 25, 2002, 07:22 AM   #25
Marko Kloos
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Quote:
I am not saying that this isn't true, Correia, but I am going to ask you to prove it. I hear this said over and over, but I think it is a purely hypothetical issue.
Off the top of my head, I remember some LEO dash cam footage where the officer wrestled with the suspect who was resisting arrest. The suspect got a hold of the officer's 3rd generation S&W, there was a struggle (off-camera), and then the suspect ran away, through the camera's POV, with the officer's gun in his hand. The officer, off-camera, towards the mike: "It's OK, I got the magazine."
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