FBI Agents 'Miffed' that Gun Owner Contacted Media

Drizzt · November 5, 2002, 10:34 AM

FBI Agents 'Miffed' that Gun Owner Contacted Media

By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
November 05, 2002

Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - Prior to the capture of "Beltway Sniper" suspects John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo, an unconfirmed number of Maryland gun owners received surprise visits from the FBI as part of the investigation. One such gun owner had a surprise of his own for the agents when they arrived at his home.

Jeff Brown of Gaithersburg, Md., was "a little nervous" when he heard the voicemail message from an FBI agent on the sniper task force who wanted to "visit" Brown at his home to check a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle Brown purchased in 1993. Adding to that apprehension was the fact that Brown owns and drives a full-sized white panel van, the type of vehicle investigators believed the sniper was driving.

"I expected, actually, to be pulled over and spread-eagle on the street at some point," Brown told CNSNews.com Monday. "When he called, I knew their database had had a double hit. A white van and a .223 rifle? I knew they were coming."

In a subsequent telephone conversation, Metzger reportedly told Brown that agents merely wanted to verify the serial number of the rifle and confirm that it was, in fact, still physically in Brown's possession. The two scheduled an appointment to accomplish those goals.

But Brown later learned that the agents had tried at least once to make an unannounced visit, and only called because they were unable to catch him at home.

"Once I told some of my friends in the pro-gun community what was happening, they began to relate some stories to me about guys having their guns confiscated, for so-called 'ballistic fingerprinting,' and not getting their guns back," Brown explained. "I became alarmed."

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said the attitude of the federal agents comes as a result of "years of accepting gun control as somehow useful for solving crimes."

"The [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms] went to the stores and got the lists of gun owners that had something that could fire a .223. But, it didn't solve the crime," Pratt noted. "The only reason we find that gun registration is 'useful' is for confiscation."

FBI Agents 'Were Not Happy'

Brown's apprehension prompted him to contact an attorney, who instructed him on preparing for the visit. So, when FBI Special Agent Greg Metzger and his partner arrived at Brown's home for their scheduled meeting, they were greeted by Brown and his wife, Mary, along with reporters and photographers from various media outlets.

As Brown described the situation, the agents were "a little bit miffed."

"They were not happy," he observed. "They just were not interested in being around any cameras."

The agents asked Brown to step outside the home, away from the television crew, to talk.

"Can we, uh ... come here," one of the agents said to Brown. Obliging, Brown stepped away from the door to speak with the agents, but still within view of the camera.

Brown began recapping the agreement he had made with Special Agent Metzger. But when one of the agents realized Brown was wearing a wireless microphone, he stopped the conversation short.

"Do you have a microphone on?" the agent asked as he reached toward the microphone clipped to Brown's shirt. Brown backed away and continued talking, but the agent interrupted him again.

"Can you do me a favor?" the agent asked. "Can you take the apparatus off that you have on? I'd like to speak to you privately."

Brown complied, but only after summoning his wife to serve as a witness to the conversation with the agents. Out of the camera's view, and believing they could not be heard, the agents challenged Brown about the presence of the media.

"They were belligerent, at that point, with me. They weren't threatening me or pushing me around or touching me or anything like that, but their mannerisms and attitude quickly became offended and belligerent," Brown recalled. "I was thinking to myself, 'See, this is what I was afraid would happen if you guys came into my house, especially if I was alone.'"

'Don't You Know People Are Dying?'

Parts of the conversation picked up by the camera's long-range microphone confirm Brown's account of what happened next.

"Why didn't you give us a chance to do what we said we were going to do instead of ambushing us with the media? Why didn't you trust us?" one agent asked.

Brown said it was not so much the words the agents used, as their attitude and body language that made him uncomfortable.

"There was some lecturing about it," he said recalling one comment that did unnerve him.

"One thing they said was, 'Don't you know people are dying and we're just trying to do our job?'" Brown recalled, "Of course, the inference was that I didn't care that there were people dying and I was trying to interfere with them doing their job."

During that conversation, the agents reportedly admitted that they had seized other rifles, allegedly with permission, to compare them to the ballistic evidence gathered from the crime scenes.

"They said, from some people, they do 'request' to take the gun with them and do 'ballistic fingerprinting,' as they call it," Brown recalled. "I just did not want to have my gun disappear."

Pratt believes the agents "developed an attitude," because Brown challenged their attempts to violate his constitutional rights.

"The FBI is trying to put this guy on a guilt trip because he's 'not cooperating' with the system but it's a totally useless system," Pratt argued. "They just assume that gun owners [are] all a bunch of suspects just for being gun owners and they should behave accordingly."

'They Were Doing It On Purpose'

At the request of Special Agent Metzger, Brown instructed the media to stay outside his home, where they could see what was happening through a plate glass window. Brown had the unloaded weapon displayed in plain sight for the inspection.

The agents followed Brown and his wife inside and confirmed the serial number on the rifle as they had said they wanted to do. But that was not the end of the encounter.

"After they checked, they started [questioning Brown again], and that's when my wife stepped in and told them to leave," Brown said, noting that his wife formerly worked in law enforcement.

Mary Brown believed the agents were attempting to agitate her husband, hoping he would say or do something to justify their confiscation of his rifle.

"I could tell that they were doing it on purpose and I didn't like what they were doing to you," she told her husband. "So, I decided to just jump right in."

The agents left the couple's property, as they were ordered to do.

Jeff Brown does not believe the agents' reaction to the presence of the media, or their "brow-beating" tactics were justified.

"I'm not here to make them feel happy. I have to make sure my rights are not violated. I wanted to help, but this is not Nazi Germany," he explained. "I looked [Metzger] right in the eye and said ... 'I don't care whether you're upset about being ambushed by the media. I felt I needed some witnesses here with me.'"

Brown, a member of the National Rifle Association and former candidate for public office in Maryland, was also upset by what he perceived as a lack of honesty on the part of the FBI.

"[Metzger] wasn't upfront with me, and I didn't have any guilty feelings about [contacting the media]," Brown said. "They weren't truthful with me. They didn't tell me all the truth. They only told me the part they wanted to hear."

A Message to Gun Owners?

Debbie Weierman, a spokeswoman for the FBI, said the bureau would not respond to any questions about the encounter, because the probe into the multiple murders was still in progress.

"We're not going to be able to get into any kind of a dialogue with you regarding any aspect of our investigation," she said.

Pratt believes the response of the agents to the presence of the media shows that their main focus was not on finding the "Beltway Sniper," but rather on sending a message to gun owners.

"They know it's not about crime control because, if they were really interested in finding the perpetrator they would have kept moving. Obviously this guy wasn't the guy," Pratt concluded. "What it's really all about is showing that the feds are in control in a very totalitarian sense of the word."

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.a...20021105a.html

Tamara · November 5, 2002, 10:36 AM

Quote:

FBI Agents 'Miffed' that Gun Owner Contacted Media

Gosh. Hate that for 'em.

Mister_Dinky · November 5, 2002, 10:41 AM

"Why didn't you give us a chance to do what we said we were going to do instead of ambushing us with the media? Why didn't you trust us?" one agent asked.

The alphabet jerk had to be kidding.

foghornl · November 5, 2002, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Why didn't you trust us?" one agent asked

Hmmmmmmm..............

Waco

Ruby Ridge

Anne Arrundel County

20+ YEAR career Soviet Spy Robert Hanssen

Former Director Screwey Lewey Freeh

need I really go on ? ? ? ? ?

Silver Bullet · November 5, 2002, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Why didn't you give us a chance to do what we said we were going to do instead of ambushing us with the media? Why didn't you trust us?

But, apparently, the F.B.I. thinks it's okay for them to come over unannounced, without an appointment:

Quote:

But Brown later learned that the agents had tried at least once to make an unannounced visit, and only called because they were unable to catch him at home.

Ceol Mhor · November 5, 2002, 10:49 AM

Quote:

"I'm not here to make them feel happy. I have to make sure my rights are not violated. I wanted to help, but this is not Nazi Germany," he explained. "I looked [Metzger] right in the eye and said ... 'I don't care whether you're upset about being ambushed by the media."

Awesome!

F4GIB · November 5, 2002, 11:06 AM

What is their "legal" authority to "seize" the serial number of his firearm?

I suppose he should be grateful that the FBI didn't burn his house down. They like us to be submissive and cooperative. Respect is a one-way street for most federal agents (you give it, they don't).

dZ · November 5, 2002, 11:10 AM

Jeff is a member of the Maryland Chapter of the Tyranny Response Team

the media crew was from the NRA

SW9M · November 5, 2002, 11:11 AM

Isn't it amazing that the true colors of the .govs shine clear when the light of day is shined upon them.

Quote:

"Can we, uh ... come here,"

Scurrying for the cover of "darkness."

The actual web page needs to be archived here at TFL or a mirror site "just in case" it disappears.

KSFreeman · November 5, 2002, 11:54 AM

O.K., I'll ask: why was he talking to the feds to begin with???

dZ · November 5, 2002, 12:39 PM

this was Jeff's other option:

OF · November 5, 2002, 12:50 PM

That is an inspiring read. Very cool. Two thumbs up!

- Gabe

Art Eatman · November 5, 2002, 01:16 PM

Miffed, huh? I've been trying to remember when I really cared about somebody's opinion. Best I can tell, I was single, and the little darlin' was a lot cuter than any FBI agent.

, Art

Tropical Z · November 5, 2002, 02:05 PM

Did the agents feelings get hurt too?
BOO-HOO!:barf:

rock_jock · November 5, 2002, 02:30 PM

Camera, witnesses, recorded conversations. Let us use the 1st Amendment to protect our 2nd.

F4GIB · November 5, 2002, 02:32 PM

The agents asked Brown to step outside the home, away from the television crew, to talk. Read this carefully:

>>> "Can we, uh ... come here," one of the agents said to Brown. Obliging, Brown stepped away from the door to speak with the agents, but still within view of the camera.

Brown began recapping the agreement he had made with Special Agent Metzger. But when one of the agents realized Brown was wearing a wireless microphone, he stopped the conversation short.

"Do you have a microphone on?" the agent asked as he reached toward the microphone clipped to Brown's shirt. Brown backed away and continued talking, but the agent interrupted him again.

"Can you do me a favor?" the agent asked. "Can you take the apparatus off that you have on? I'd like to speak to you privately." <<<

FBI agents who come to your home "under color of law" AREN'T speaking "privately" (in fact their regulations forbid them from doing so). You can be certain that if Mr. Brown said anything remotely useful, they'd remember it. But, I'll bet the agents have "no recollection" of berating Mr. Brown for the mere exercise of his constitutional rights.

Anyone want to bet the ACLU won't be interested in THIS exercise of constitutional rights (it doesn't involve pornography or abortion)?

P. S. Where are the coppers who are usually so quick to defend their fellow officers no matter what they do???

Jim V · November 5, 2002, 02:51 PM

Anybody remember the part of Unintended Consequences where Henry Bowman warned people about the ATF coming to conduct searches and he advised them to have a number of people there with video cameras recording everything that happened.

KSFreeman · November 5, 2002, 03:26 PM

I understand why the feds don't want to be on tape as it is harder for the defendant to make admissions and harder to discover evidence in plain view when they come over for coffee, but why would Mr. Brown endanger himself by inviting them over?

dZ · November 5, 2002, 03:59 PM

Jeff invited them over because they were threatening other people with raids

They had already been by looking for Jeff that week in his neighborhood.

They had already rifled the 4473 forms in all the gunshops and were calling folkes up, scheduling interviews and asking people to submit their rifles for fingerprinting.

Saying NO to them was only going to get you further harassed

read what happened to Chaim.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...hreadid=134951

due to the "emergency" many rights were being stepped on.

madkiwi · November 5, 2002, 04:19 PM

I don't know if it would be clever, but I would have told them not to come by without a warrant. Everything I have read that advises you on how to deal with the police or government alphabet storm troopers says to 1) Never let them in your home 2) never consent to a search and 3) never volunteer any information.

I may even have an attorney present, certainly in a case like this where the government assumption is that you have done something wrong, and they are coming to let you prove you have not.

If you are not a suspect, then you can tell them to leave at any time. If you allow them into your home they can snoop and charge you with something if they see a technical violation. If you blurt out something in your nervousness and haste to co-operate, it can be used against you.

I don't think (if it had been me) that I would have co-operated. Sure, you don't want to impede an investigation, but just who were they investigating here?

Madkiwi

eoR · November 5, 2002, 04:20 PM

I believe that Mr. Brown is at fault. As a gracious host it was his responsibility to see that his invited guests were comfortable in his home. Perhaps if he had offered the agents bags to wear on their heads...

And to think that it used to be the guy being led away in handcuffs trying to hide from the cameras.

MitchSchaft · November 5, 2002, 05:18 PM

Excellent outcome!

Jason Demond · November 5, 2002, 05:27 PM

I wish I could have been there to see it.

KSFreeman · November 5, 2002, 05:56 PM

dZ, but why invite them into your house? Why not someplace offsite, like your attorney's office.

The FBI can always find a way to plant evidence or invent confessions. Why humiliate them like this when they have 1,000 ways to send you to BoP? And then once in there make your life a living heck.

BrianW · November 5, 2002, 06:03 PM

Mr. Brown is to be commended for his dealings with the feds, although declining the tea party until a warrant was produced would have been even better. Still, what I woulda paid to have watched Special Agent Metzger and partner writhe under the watchful eye of privately-owned cameras...

Where's the story on how the public is "miffed" the feds were spending all their time disregarding the snipers' phone calls and harassing people who had absolutely zero connection to the case, instead of paying attention to things like, oh, maybe clues?

November 5, 2002, 10:34 AM	#1
Drizzt Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2000 Location: Moscow on the Colorado, TX Posts: 2,560	FBI Agents 'Miffed' that Gun Owner Contacted Media FBI Agents 'Miffed' that Gun Owner Contacted Media By Jeff Johnson CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief November 05, 2002 Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - Prior to the capture of "Beltway Sniper" suspects John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo, an unconfirmed number of Maryland gun owners received surprise visits from the FBI as part of the investigation. One such gun owner had a surprise of his own for the agents when they arrived at his home. Jeff Brown of Gaithersburg, Md., was "a little nervous" when he heard the voicemail message from an FBI agent on the sniper task force who wanted to "visit" Brown at his home to check a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle Brown purchased in 1993. Adding to that apprehension was the fact that Brown owns and drives a full-sized white panel van, the type of vehicle investigators believed the sniper was driving. "I expected, actually, to be pulled over and spread-eagle on the street at some point," Brown told CNSNews.com Monday. "When he called, I knew their database had had a double hit. A white van and a .223 rifle? I knew they were coming." In a subsequent telephone conversation, Metzger reportedly told Brown that agents merely wanted to verify the serial number of the rifle and confirm that it was, in fact, still physically in Brown's possession. The two scheduled an appointment to accomplish those goals. But Brown later learned that the agents had tried at least once to make an unannounced visit, and only called because they were unable to catch him at home. "Once I told some of my friends in the pro-gun community what was happening, they began to relate some stories to me about guys having their guns confiscated, for so-called 'ballistic fingerprinting,' and not getting their guns back," Brown explained. "I became alarmed." Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said the attitude of the federal agents comes as a result of "years of accepting gun control as somehow useful for solving crimes." "The [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms] went to the stores and got the lists of gun owners that had something that could fire a .223. But, it didn't solve the crime," Pratt noted. "The only reason we find that gun registration is 'useful' is for confiscation." FBI Agents 'Were Not Happy' Brown's apprehension prompted him to contact an attorney, who instructed him on preparing for the visit. So, when FBI Special Agent Greg Metzger and his partner arrived at Brown's home for their scheduled meeting, they were greeted by Brown and his wife, Mary, along with reporters and photographers from various media outlets. As Brown described the situation, the agents were "a little bit miffed." "They were not happy," he observed. "They just were not interested in being around any cameras." The agents asked Brown to step outside the home, away from the television crew, to talk. "Can we, uh ... come here," one of the agents said to Brown. Obliging, Brown stepped away from the door to speak with the agents, but still within view of the camera. Brown began recapping the agreement he had made with Special Agent Metzger. But when one of the agents realized Brown was wearing a wireless microphone, he stopped the conversation short. "Do you have a microphone on?" the agent asked as he reached toward the microphone clipped to Brown's shirt. Brown backed away and continued talking, but the agent interrupted him again. "Can you do me a favor?" the agent asked. "Can you take the apparatus off that you have on? I'd like to speak to you privately." Brown complied, but only after summoning his wife to serve as a witness to the conversation with the agents. Out of the camera's view, and believing they could not be heard, the agents challenged Brown about the presence of the media. "They were belligerent, at that point, with me. They weren't threatening me or pushing me around or touching me or anything like that, but their mannerisms and attitude quickly became offended and belligerent," Brown recalled. "I was thinking to myself, 'See, this is what I was afraid would happen if you guys came into my house, especially if I was alone.'" 'Don't You Know People Are Dying?' Parts of the conversation picked up by the camera's long-range microphone confirm Brown's account of what happened next. "Why didn't you give us a chance to do what we said we were going to do instead of ambushing us with the media? Why didn't you trust us?" one agent asked. Brown said it was not so much the words the agents used, as their attitude and body language that made him uncomfortable. "There was some lecturing about it," he said recalling one comment that did unnerve him. "One thing they said was, 'Don't you know people are dying and we're just trying to do our job?'" Brown recalled, "Of course, the inference was that I didn't care that there were people dying and I was trying to interfere with them doing their job." During that conversation, the agents reportedly admitted that they had seized other rifles, allegedly with permission, to compare them to the ballistic evidence gathered from the crime scenes. "They said, from some people, they do 'request' to take the gun with them and do 'ballistic fingerprinting,' as they call it," Brown recalled. "I just did not want to have my gun disappear." Pratt believes the agents "developed an attitude," because Brown challenged their attempts to violate his constitutional rights. "The FBI is trying to put this guy on a guilt trip because he's 'not cooperating' with the system but it's a totally useless system," Pratt argued. "They just assume that gun owners [are] all a bunch of suspects just for being gun owners and they should behave accordingly." 'They Were Doing It On Purpose' At the request of Special Agent Metzger, Brown instructed the media to stay outside his home, where they could see what was happening through a plate glass window. Brown had the unloaded weapon displayed in plain sight for the inspection. The agents followed Brown and his wife inside and confirmed the serial number on the rifle as they had said they wanted to do. But that was not the end of the encounter. "After they checked, they started [questioning Brown again], and that's when my wife stepped in and told them to leave," Brown said, noting that his wife formerly worked in law enforcement. Mary Brown believed the agents were attempting to agitate her husband, hoping he would say or do something to justify their confiscation of his rifle. "I could tell that they were doing it on purpose and I didn't like what they were doing to you," she told her husband. "So, I decided to just jump right in." The agents left the couple's property, as they were ordered to do. Jeff Brown does not believe the agents' reaction to the presence of the media, or their "brow-beating" tactics were justified. "I'm not here to make them feel happy. I have to make sure my rights are not violated. I wanted to help, but this is not Nazi Germany," he explained. "I looked [Metzger] right in the eye and said ... 'I don't care whether you're upset about being ambushed by the media. I felt I needed some witnesses here with me.'" Brown, a member of the National Rifle Association and former candidate for public office in Maryland, was also upset by what he perceived as a lack of honesty on the part of the FBI. "[Metzger] wasn't upfront with me, and I didn't have any guilty feelings about [contacting the media]," Brown said. "They weren't truthful with me. They didn't tell me all the truth. They only told me the part they wanted to hear." A Message to Gun Owners? Debbie Weierman, a spokeswoman for the FBI, said the bureau would not respond to any questions about the encounter, because the probe into the multiple murders was still in progress. "We're not going to be able to get into any kind of a dialogue with you regarding any aspect of our investigation," she said. Pratt believes the response of the agents to the presence of the media shows that their main focus was not on finding the "Beltway Sniper," but rather on sending a message to gun owners. "They know it's not about crime control because, if they were really interested in finding the perpetrator they would have kept moving. Obviously this guy wasn't the guy," Pratt concluded. "What it's really all about is showing that the feds are in control in a very totalitarian sense of the word." http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.a...20021105a.html __________________ "That a free citizen should have to go before a committee, hat in hand, and pray for permission to bear arms - fantastic! Arm your daughter, sir, and pay no attention to petty bureaucrats." Robert Heinlein - Red Planet

November 5, 2002, 11:10 AM	#8
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	Jeff is a member of the Maryland Chapter of the Tyranny Response Team the media crew was from the NRA __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters

November 5, 2002, 11:54 AM	#10
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	O.K., I'll ask: why was he talking to the feds to begin with??? __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

November 5, 2002, 02:05 PM	#14
Tropical Z Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2000 Location: Atlantis Posts: 1,683	Did the agents feelings get hurt too? BOO-HOO!:barf: __________________ FREEDOM IS NEVER FREE!!!!!!!

November 5, 2002, 02:51 PM	#17
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	Anybody remember the part of Unintended Consequences where Henry Bowman warned people about the ATF coming to conduct searches and he advised them to have a number of people there with video cameras recording everything that happened. __________________ *MOLON LABE* If it ain't metal, single stack & single action, it ain't a 1911 no matter what it looks like. 1911 Forum THE TUBBY CURMUDGEON

November 5, 2002, 10:41 AM	#3
Mister_Dinky Junior member Join Date: July 18, 2002 Location: In one of the 50 Posts: 191	"Why didn't you give us a chance to do what we said we were going to do instead of ambushing us with the media? Why didn't you trust us?" one agent asked. The alphabet jerk had to be kidding.

November 5, 2002, 11:06 AM	#7
F4GIB Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 217	What is their "legal" authority to "seize" the serial number of his firearm? I suppose he should be grateful that the FBI didn't burn his house down. They like us to be submissive and cooperative. Respect is a one-way street for most federal agents (you give it, they don't).

November 5, 2002, 12:50 PM	#12
OF Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2000 Posts: 2,239	That is an inspiring read. Very cool. Two thumbs up! - Gabe

November 5, 2002, 01:16 PM	#13
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Miffed, huh? I've been trying to remember when I really cared about somebody's opinion. Best I can tell, I was single, and the little darlin' was a lot cuter than any FBI agent. , Art

November 5, 2002, 02:30 PM	#15
rock_jock Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: SE Texas Posts: 1,779	Camera, witnesses, recorded conversations. Let us use the 1st Amendment to protect our 2nd.

November 5, 2002, 02:32 PM	#16
F4GIB Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 217	The agents asked Brown to step outside the home, away from the television crew, to talk. Read this carefully: >>> "Can we, uh ... come here," one of the agents said to Brown. Obliging, Brown stepped away from the door to speak with the agents, but still within view of the camera. Brown began recapping the agreement he had made with Special Agent Metzger. But when one of the agents realized Brown was wearing a wireless microphone, he stopped the conversation short. "Do you have a microphone on?" the agent asked as he reached toward the microphone clipped to Brown's shirt. Brown backed away and continued talking, but the agent interrupted him again. "Can you do me a favor?" the agent asked. "Can you take the apparatus off that you have on? I'd like to speak to you privately." <<< FBI agents who come to your home "under color of law" AREN'T speaking "privately" (in fact their regulations forbid them from doing so). You can be certain that if Mr. Brown said anything remotely useful, they'd remember it. But, I'll bet the agents have "no recollection" of berating Mr. Brown for the mere exercise of his constitutional rights. Anyone want to bet the ACLU won't be interested in THIS exercise of constitutional rights (it doesn't involve pornography or abortion)? P. S. Where are the coppers who are usually so quick to defend their fellow officers no matter what they do???

November 5, 2002, 03:26 PM	#18
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	I understand why the feds don't want to be on tape as it is harder for the defendant to make admissions and harder to discover evidence in plain view when they come over for coffee, but why would Mr. Brown endanger himself by inviting them over? __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

November 5, 2002, 03:59 PM	#19
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	Jeff invited them over because they were threatening other people with raids They had already been by looking for Jeff that week in his neighborhood. They had already rifled the 4473 forms in all the gunshops and were calling folkes up, scheduling interviews and asking people to submit their rifles for fingerprinting. Saying NO to them was only going to get you further harassed read what happened to Chaim. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...hreadid=134951 due to the "emergency" many rights were being stepped on. __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters

November 5, 2002, 04:19 PM	#20
madkiwi Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2000 Location: Missoula, MT Posts: 227	I don't know if it would be clever, but I would have told them not to come by without a warrant. Everything I have read that advises you on how to deal with the police or government alphabet storm troopers says to 1) Never let them in your home 2) never consent to a search and 3) never volunteer any information. I may even have an attorney present, certainly in a case like this where the government assumption is that you have done something wrong, and they are coming to let you prove you have not. If you are not a suspect, then you can tell them to leave at any time. If you allow them into your home they can snoop and charge you with something if they see a technical violation. If you blurt out something in your nervousness and haste to co-operate, it can be used against you. I don't think (if it had been me) that I would have co-operated. Sure, you don't want to impede an investigation, but just who were they investigating here? Madkiwi

November 5, 2002, 04:20 PM	#21
eoR Member Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 33	I believe that Mr. Brown is at fault. As a gracious host it was his responsibility to see that his invited guests were comfortable in his home. Perhaps if he had offered the agents bags to wear on their heads... And to think that it used to be the guy being led away in handcuffs trying to hide from the cameras.

November 5, 2002, 05:18 PM	#22
MitchSchaft Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2001 Posts: 1,197	Excellent outcome!

November 5, 2002, 05:27 PM	#23
Jason Demond Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 1999 Location: Mivonks, Michigan Posts: 1,846	I wish I could have been there to see it. __________________ "ACCEPT NOTHING LESS THAN FULL VICTORY!" General Dwight D. Eisenhower June 6, 1944 ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

November 5, 2002, 05:56 PM	#24
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	dZ, but why invite them into your house? Why not someplace offsite, like your attorney's office. The FBI can always find a way to plant evidence or invent confessions. Why humiliate them like this when they have 1,000 ways to send you to BoP? And then once in there make your life a living heck. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

November 5, 2002, 06:03 PM	#25
BrianW Member Join Date: October 28, 2002 Location: Alaska Posts: 70	Mr. Brown is to be commended for his dealings with the feds, although declining the tea party until a warrant was produced would have been even better. Still, what I woulda paid to have watched Special Agent Metzger and partner writhe under the watchful eye of privately-owned cameras... Where's the story on how the public is "miffed" the feds were spending all their time disregarding the snipers' phone calls and harassing people who had absolutely zero connection to the case, instead of paying attention to things like, oh, maybe clues? __________________ Political pragmatism is the problem, not the solution.