Troops on the Border?

[PeteyPete]

I listen to O'Reilly nightly scream about our governments inability to control our nations porous borders, and like clockwork, he suggests that we use our military to guard our borders. I know of concerns regarding posse comitias and the use of the military of our homeland.

What’s your opinion? If you were the Commander in Chief, would you solidify our borders using our military?

[Preacherman]

I think that the US Military might do well to consider something like the Commando system used in South Africa up until the mid-1990's (and may still be used there, for all I know...)

A "Commando" was a military reserve unit, with a clearly defined geographical area of operations, staffed by reservists living in that area who were intimately familiar with it. Their job was to provide local security in times of crisis; provide aid to the civil power when requested (e.g. in the event of a natural disaster, etc.); and patrol the area as needed to enhance security.

I think that if we were to establish such units in the areas along our borders, and add to their personnel when needed by drafting in regular or National Guard personnel, this might be very effective indeed at sealing our borders. The local personnel would know all of the likely problem areas, and would be familiar with specific problems (e.g. illegal immigration, drug-smuggling, etc.) that would be likely to be encountered there. The supplementary forces would operate under the guidance of the local troops, and thereby be preserved from potentially dangerous errors and misunderstandings, as well as being rendered more effective in their work.

As for this being an infringement of posse comitatus, I really don't think this applies. The military would not be used to enforce internal US law against US citizens as the police would: rather, they would be operating against those attempting to "break in" to the USA - in other words, foreign "enemies". Sure, those enemies might not be an invading army, but they certainly present a "clear and present danger" to the USA, through drugs, terrorist violence, and the economic burden imposed by massive illegal immigration. IMHO, it would be entirely legal and proper to deploy the armed forces to defend against such threats.

[Schuey2002]

Will you get upset with me if I don't write a book on the
subject and just say,

yes!

[clem]

It's not the "inability". It's the won't do it because of votes reason.

I'm only 60 miles north of the DMZ and it gets worse every day.

God help us, because our government won't.

[AZTOY]

I live in Arivaca Arizona. A small town 5 mile from Mexio border. The Border Patrol are trying but the illegals are still getting in and it's getting worse. You can drive down the road and see them in the hiding in the trees. I also see the border patrol running around with m-16. THE FUNNY THING IS THE BORDER IS A BARB WIRE FENCE AND DO THAY REALY THINK THAT A BARB WIRE FENCE WILL KEEP THE ILLEGALS OUT!!! :barf: I realy do not want the Army around my town ,but the border patrol does needs some help.

[Tady45]

YES, after living in San Diego for 17 years, believe me, we have plenty of problems down there. New
Homeland security dept?
Just going to be another multi billion dollar boodoggle, unless they can keep our borders secure... Bush wants to use American lives and $$$ to invade Iraq. How about protecting are over run country first!



Larry

[Malone LaVeigh]

While we're at it, we can save a lot of money on dam construction by stationing the army in the river canyons to prevent water from flowing downhill.

Illegal (and legal, for that matter) immigration is a major problem in this country, especially here out West. But trying to stop it by sealing the border just ain't gonna happen. It's a law of nature. Things always pass through a semi-permeable barrier in response to a gradient. Until something is done to make things better on THAT side of the line, they'll keep coming across to THIS side. Or until things are brought down on this side to the same level.

We can p!zz and moan about it all we want, and say it's none of our responsibility if things are miserable over there, but if we want the situation to change, we need to start doing things in this country to make things better over there.

[AR-10]

The condition of their country has nothing to do with how we enforce our laws and protect our borders.

Enforcing our imigration laws has nothing to do with giving away taxpayer monies to foreign governments in the hope that they will use those monies to create better living conditions for their own citizens.

We need to make it very difficult to illegally cross into our country. That will require more manpower and firearms. Who provides it is not important to me, as long as it is constitutionally permitted.

[wingman]

Yes, the military is needed along the
southwest border, having lived in the area a number of years the problem
grows worse, cost to "all" taxpayers is
beyond belief, and no illegals do not
pay there way, the only benefit is to the
rich on this side and the mexican govt.!!

How can we talk of homeland security and not patrol our borders, perhaps
the homeland security idea is too control
the citizens of America.???

[swifter...]

Part of me wants to say: Let the locals handle it, just don't prosecute 'em. Pay a bounty...

Another part still likes the late, great Ed Abbey's suggestion: Catch the illeagles, give them medical treatment as needed, give them a good rifle, some ammo, and a pack of food. Take them back to Mexico. Let the Mexicans solve their social problems in their time-honored fashion.
But they'd probably come back and shoot us...
Bounty is probably the best idea...
Tom

[JoeSF]

Here is an example of citizens exercising their 2nd amendment rights to uphold the law. Thought it would be of interest.
from:

http://www.thenewsmexico.com/noticia.asp?id=40305


Mexico gov't to ask U.S. to stop vigilantes "hunting" immigrants
EFE - 11/20/2002

TUCSON, Arizona - The governor of the Mexican state of Sonora plans to ask the U.S. government at the Arizona-Sonora Commission's upcoming annual meeting to stop vigilante groups "hunting" for undocumented immigrants along the border, he said in a press release Tuesday.

Sonora Gov. Armando Lopez Nogales said he will ask his U.S. counterpart, Arizona Gov. Jane Hull, to put an end to the militia groups patrolling the border during the meeting set to begin Friday in Puerto Peñasco, Sonora.

"We want to address respect for the rights of our countrymen," Lopez Nogales said in the press release, calling on the U.S. federal government to reign in armed groups that take the law into their own hands.

Lopez Nogales cited the Barnett brothers of Douglas, Arizona, who for three years have detained at gunpoint undocumented migrants trying to cross into the United States through their lands.

The Mexican governor's statement comes in response to an editorial published last week by The Tumbleweed of Tombstone, Arizona, which billed itself as "a public call to arms" and urged local residents to join a "Citizens Border Patrol Militia."

The Citizens Border Patrol Militia would be the third U.S. vigilante group to operate along the Arizona border, after units of Texas' Ranch Rescue and California's American Border Patrol were formed in the area to track down undocumented migrants in the name of protecting ranching interests.

High-level officials from both sides of the border, including Arizona Governor-elect Janet Napolitano, who takes office Jan. 6, are expected to attend the bi-national conference.


© Copyright 2002 EFE

[Art Eatman]

I've long been amused by the folks who've yowled against the U.S. acting as World Cop--e.g., Ted Kennedy supporters during his notions of the presidency in 1980--and how our military should only protect against invasion. Aside from supporting such things as Clinton's campaign against Serbian civilians, that is.

Seems to me that we're being invaded, even though tanks and cannons are not arrayed against us. Seems to me a major purpose of all those military tax dollars should go to protect the "national interest", right? After all, that justified Desert Storm. Somebody want to tell me there is no national interest in the invasion by millions of criminal law-breaking types?

, Art

[AZTOY]

The governor of the Mexican state of Sonora plans to ask the U.S. government at the Arizona-Sonora Commission's upcoming annual meeting to stop vigilante groups "hunting" for undocumented immigrants along the border, he said in a press release Tuesday.

http://www.ranchrescue.com/index.htmThay must be talk about Ranch Rescue. I was think about become a member.

[PeteyPete]

http://www.ranchrescue.com/index.htm
Thay must be talk about Ranch Rescue. I was think about become a member.

Hmmmm...i may go down there during the summer. Sounds like it could be some fun.

[DadOfThree]

I really don't think it's a good idea. I have lived in countries where the line between police and military are blurred and it is never a good idea. If you want the military to patrol the border as if it were a war zone, that is one thing. The military is trained to engage the enemy with extreme prejudice. I know many people think that if they are illegal they should just be shot but I don't think that will ever become acceptable in this country. IMHO, we should work on making it less desirable for them to come here. No free medical care, no free public schools, no government handouts. They are here illegally, they shoudn't be rewarded for it.

[orlando5]

There is no way to stop infiltration unless the total boarder size is 3 feet. We can make it difficult for them to infiltrate us but then again aren’t we spending billions each year trying to stop drugs coming to the USA? LaVeigh does point out a logical choice to solve the problem at hand but that’s undesirable because it is not a quick fix that everyone wants. There is no quick fix to this problem and putting the military in a law enforcement role is an extremely bad and reckless idea.

[Nanaimo Barr]

isin't this the same crowed that screams about the Militerization of Police Depts?

Police are Police and Military are Military. two totaly different jobs.

and think about it, today it's "lets get the military to help at the border" and tomorrow it's "we need the army to help clean up the crack houses" then it's "we need the army to help collect guns from citizens"

[Malone LaVeigh]

The condition of their country has nothing to do with how we enforce our laws and protect our borders.

Presuming that's a response to my post, I never said it did. Except that the conditions on that side determine the pressure being brought against our border. We can try to make little Dutch boys out of the army to hold back the flood, but it won't work.

Enforcing our imigration laws has nothing to do with giving away taxpayer monies to foreign governments in the hope that they will use those monies to create better living conditions for their own citizens.

I never said that, either. But we have a choice. We can help make things better over there, or we can wait till they get worse over here. Either way, equilibrium will be achieved. Maybe when our population is like Hong Kong or Mexico City? Won't our quality of life be improved then.

Yeah, I was going to suggest Cactus Ed's solution also.

[Believer]

I think that guarding the borders more is a good idea. Many of these illegals can not speak english and have difficulties with finding jobs. So the only thing they can do to survive is by stealing and other illegal actions. I think that guarding the borders will prevent a lot of criminality in the future. This is a very difficult issue, because it is quite harsh to just send them back to their own country that obviously treats them bad. Letting them enter the USA is just causing more trouble for the government. I think taking care of the criminality is the primary thing the USA should concern right now. So closing the borders would be a perfect start.

It is unfortunately quite sad for the illegals though, but I do not think that there is much to do about that.

[Tori]

Protect our borders?! Yeah that might be good!? I don't know, we're dealing with people that escape thier countries in hope of a better and decent future. I think that we have to have open borders as long as we can take care of the people entering them, otherwise their lives will only be a living hell, they won't live better lives than in their old countries and that's not good then we might as well close the borders.
Illegal immigrants are not good because they don't get included in the well-fare system and fall out of the governments care into criminality, as their only source to money, if they want to get decent citizens they won't get far without being able to speak english.

And if the borders get mass-invaded, it will only lead to problems, costs etc. and the problem will never be solved. So in order to deal with this big problem I think that guarding the borders is a good start because one state can only support a certain amount of people. Take USA for instance they can't support the entire world...And all the criminlaity there often is because of illegal immigrants who can't get jobs instead they steal , causing the american people a lot of problems. Billions of billions of money goes to fighting the criminality and that means less money to the school, health-care, police etc. you name it!

Although this might sound harsh, before letting in more immigrants we have to be able to take care of, and ease their situation so that can make their own living, the ones we already have. It's not fair to the immigrants by letting them in, hoping for a better future and then just to find out that it's no better than in their old country, because the new country can't support them.
The more people we let in the bigger the problems will be .
I repeat again we have to be able to deal with the people already in our country before helping others!!!

Yours Truly Tori!

[edamon2k]

It's about time we have the military patrol our borders.

I live in California and I went to college in San Diego.

A friend who was a local in the SD area (and my roomate at the time) one night took me down to the mexico - US border in his truck (equipped with a light rack).

He pulled off the road about 5 or 6 miles from the actual border crossing (offical one) and we went offroad for a 1/4 mile (lights off).

Then he hit the light rack and i swear, there just have been 300 mexicans sneaking over in this one little section alone.

Border patrol can't handle the problem - there aren't enough of them.

Now I don't mind mexicans sneaking over - they generally come over to work the fields or the like - stuff we don't want to do. Of course, alot sneak over to take advantage of our public services (like health care) which I do have a problem with - since the costs to the tax payer are enormous. In the billions each year.

However, now lets do some substitution - sub out the mexicans with arab terrorists... that 300 I saw boogie over the border that night would be more then enough to cause severe havok in you pick the US city.

It's time to clamp down and clamp down hard. You want in? apply for a visa and come in the legal way.

-d

[Tamara]

Maybe they could maneuver against, engage, and destroy by fire a few more of those dangerous goatherd kids.

At only $1,900,000 apiece, they're relatively cheap targets.



Look, if y'all think it's time to shoot everything that moves along the border, then the army is who you want. That's what they do: kill people and break their stuff.

Personally, I think that if the Border Patrol is having a tough time, you beef up the Border Patrol, not send in the 3rd ACR.

[ojibweindian]

From what I have read and heard in various news reports and commentary, many of the illegals crossing into our country are giving our citizens near the border a severe time. I've heard of rapes, burglaries, armed robberies, and murders at the hands of illegals. If this is true then the solution, to me, is rather simple.

Shoot them. Our citizens on the border should not have to put up with this kind of crap in order to appease both the White House and the Mexican government.

[George Dickel at Work]

I read an article the other day on illegals that echoed my thoughts on the subject. The majority are coming here for work, not criminal activities. If there is no work they will not come. If the government would severely punish employers for hiring illegals, the job market for them would dry up. By severe punishment I mean huge fines, and even jail time for repeat offenders. The problem with this is that both parties want illegals here in the country. The Republicans want them because the illegals will work for less and take the dirty jobs. Companies aren't willing to pay enough to get an american to do these jobs when there are thousands of willing illegals and no penalty for hiring them. Keeps prices down and profits up for companies and stockholders. The Democrats want the illegals here because they will vote democrat to receive the benefits promised to them. It's going to take a catastrophic event to force the government to tighten up on illegals. It would be poetic justice if that event happened in Washington, DC when both houses were in session.

[Joe Demko]

I've heard of rapes, burglaries, armed robberies, and murders at the hands of illegals. If this is true then the solution, to me, is rather simple.

Funnily enough, I've heard of the very same things at the hands of natural born citizens.

Border too porous? Hire and train more Border Patrol.