I Just Don't Get The Allure of the HK P7 or HK Prices In General

[J.Bourne]

Will someone more intelligent than me explain why HK charges $1,000+ for this sidearm?

I realize HK makes decent firearms, and I know they market them as 'elite' and all that crap. In fact, I like HK handguns, although I could never justify paying the freight on one when I believed I could as much for much less elsewhere.

Seems to me that H&K's were much cheaper some years back, then some marketing wizards decided to engage in marketing their weapons with 'elite cache', and the price ran up like Palm stock back in '99.

Maybe someone more wise than I can explain whether H&K's newer, pricier weapons are that much improved over their ones of seven or so years ago (and worth the price compared to other makes), or whether their marketing gurus deserve large bonuses.

Then explain the P7 price to me. Thanks.

[Erich]

In fact, on a year-dollar to year-dollar basis, they're probably cheaper now than they have been in the past. They certainly weren't "much cheaper."

My recollection is that a P7M13 used to run about $650 back in 1985, and the M8 only a bit below that. That was a chunk of change, my friend (Glocks - largely unheard of - were $285).

As a college kid whose first exposure to a CCW was a P7M13 a friend's friend was carrying back in those days of yore, I can tell you that the P7s were pretty darn cool. The squeeze-cock mechanism and gas-delayed blowback was a neat idea (H&K is willing to risk those from time to time - they marketed the first polymer-framed pistol in 1970!), and the pistol was impeccably made. The fixed barrel made the thing more accurate than the average sloppily fitted Colt or Smith auto of the period. There's a lot of good work that goes into a P7.

I can't speak for the PSP/UMC generation of H&Ks, but they were putting out some pretty darn neat guns with technically precise implementation of forward-thinking designs when other manufacturers' idea of a pistol was the same thing they'd been plopping out for decades, only less well fitted.

Modern era guns seem a whole ton better. I guess we can thank CNC machinery and the competition of a free market for that. Shoot a modern S&W 5904TSW next to a S&W 59 from the early '70s if you want to see what I mean. (And I think, year-dollar for year-dollar, they cost about the same now as they did back then.) (And thanks to Wally World, a lot of loaded ammo sure costs a lot less than it did.)

[Handy]

The P7 is a unique, but really superb design. Take one to a combat course sometime.

I wouldn't pay $1200 for one either. My near new used one was $700. But plenty of "custom combat pistols" are this much or more, and they are just refined 90 year old designs.

[pdmoderator]

HKs aren't cheap, but their customer service really bites.

It'd be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a civilian to enter the kingdom of the HK parts department.

- pdmoderator

[Prof]

I've never understood the allure of the P7 either. I think they look like a staplegun! However, good friends of mine have carried P7's for years and absolutely swear by them. I shot one and it felt "strange" but, then, so do Glocks. I do know that they are excellent, dependable firearms but $1,000 seems excessive to me, too.

[Chipperman]

Value is in the mind of the buyer.

I have not paid that much for my P7's. However, if I were not able to find one for less, I would pay that much for one. This is after owning 3 of them.

As far as the allure, I say try one out. It will either blow your skirt up or it will not.

I fail to see why people blast the P7 for being so expensive, but nobody utters a word about blowing twice that on a Custom 1911.

If the gun is worth it to you, buy it. I don't care if it's a $500 Glock, a $1000 HK or a $2000 1911

[hdm25]

The P7 series handgun is one of the most well-designed weapons around. I, like Chipperman, wonder at the "why" of people putting the $1000 P7 down but paying $2000 for a custom 1911.

I paid $800 for one P7M8 and got another as a gift. I paid $1100 for one P7M13 and $900 for the other.

A friend of mine believes in the P7 over all other handguns. I love them and believe in them, but I am not sold on their total superiority. He cites that they are totally "stock" and that my custom guns aren't needed. Well, he's right in many ways. However...I like stippling and checkering on my guns...the P7 has some slight texturing from the factory. The P7 is as reliable as a well-tuned custom pistol straight from the box. The P7 is tightly-fitted, like many custom pistols. What my friend isn't seeing is that he has bought a "factory"-custom gun much like many 1911s that are produced today. The only real difference is that its a different design (probably a superior one in many ways).

I have used a Browning hi-power more than any other pistol. I have seen fewer problems from my hi-powers, even though I have shot them more, than I have seen from P7s used by other people (and more problems from Glocks, too, for that matter). I don't really believe that the gun is any better than the user. Shoot crappy ammunition or shoot using poor technique or fail to maintain your weapon properly and you will have failures. That's it.

The P7 is more expensive because the market allows it to be. It is more expensive because it IS a well-designed and well-made handgun. Looks aside, a properly-maintained P7 is one of the very best handguns to have if you ever have to fight with one.

My own P7s are a thing of the past. I have sold or given away all of them. A couple will eventually come back to me, but they will likely sit in the safe. To me, a hi-power or 1911 is the perfect pistol and I'm leaning more and more toward the latter.

[seeker_two]

One word: tariffs

The P7 is made entirely in Germany, who places an export tariff on it. Then, when it's imported, the US places an import tariff. This is what artificially raises the price & why H&K makes the USP here in the US (get around the tariff).

Wish they would make the P7 here. With its small size & strong following, it would make them some money here...

[BigG]

Pencil me in on the skeptics list.

[Modifiedbrowning]

As far as general Hk prices go, why is the USP more expensive than other similar polymer guns? I can buy a P99 for under $500, why is the USP much more expensive?
No need to explain to me how the HK is much better made and far superior in quality. I have a P99 have shot the USP's a bit I ain't buying that the HK is that much better.

[mvdemarco]

I have pondered that myself! I have owned both a P7 and a USP .40 and I did not find them to perform or to be superior in any way to SIG, Walther, Beretta or Browning. I feel that they are way overpriced! Just my opinion though. Some people swear by them!

Mike

[bismark]

The P7M8 is a bargain, plain and simple. No other concealable autos have a trigger that good right out of the box. Also, please tell me more about this time period where P7s were cheap. I don't ever recall that.
A P7 at $825 has more workmanship in it then 2 $450 Glocks. Tupperware is cheaper than high quality steel cookware. Plastic dial calipers are $12, while a steel Starett 6 inch is over $100. Is the Starret a rip off?
P7's are poetry in motion, pure sex. A Sig 226 is just a gun.

[don't shoot it's me]

Prices are a bit excessive but I got mine for 750 which is only a few hundred more than I wanted to spend on a CCW gun. But when I figured in the perfect trigger, best stock sights I've ever used, totally ambidextrious design, amazing pointability due to it's low bore axis and the unusual manual of arms which most street types are not familiar with and could save your life if ever taken away from you...a few hundred didn't seem like all that much to me...

[AZ Jeff]

I will make all of you other P7 owner's wince: I bought mine in 1984, and paid $406, plus tax. It was expensive at the time, and in retrospect, it appears to have been a bargain...........well made, compact, accurate. My only complaint is the finish wears off quickly when holster carried.

[Pilot]

Put a few hundred rounds through a P7M8 and see what you think. Mine was $800 used, but LNIB. It woul be one of the last guns I would part with next to my BHP and CZ's. Look for a good used one, they are worth every penny.

[Incursion]

I bought a used (200 rounds) refurb for $650. I hardchromed it and threw on some night sights. My total was $1000 for a hard chromed P7 with 3 mags and nightsights.

$500 in 1985 calculates to $820 in 2001.

[Kermit]

I spent about $850 for my hard chromed P7M8 w/ 4 mags back in '88. So far I've rec'd offers as much as $2000 for it. HK's seem to hold their value better than any other gun I've owned.
As to why? All about perceived value I guess. My HK's are worth every penny I've spent on them.

[tetchaje]

That's why they call it the "Cult of the P7"...

I love mine.

[Sloan441]

P7: there is no substitute.

I dearly love mine. I wouldn't part with either for anything (well, maybe the .45 P7...).

My Baer Commander comes close, but I still prefer the P7s to even it. One good thing about the Baer is that it did renew my faith in 1911s (those mid-'80s Colts were baaaaaaaaaaaad).

Nevertheless, I consider P7s indispensible in my own pistol collection.

[don't shoot it's me]

Kermit...if that guy calls again offering 2,000...send him my way...I only have 3 mags so I'll take 1950....

[Correia]

P7 is probably not overpriced because it is a little more expensive to make, and it is imported.

I do however believe that the USP is overpriced due to marketing. It is just a polymer frame gun. Modern easy to manufacture design. Nothing fancy. But they market is as this uber-tacticool super gun. Realistically the USP should cost around $500 like most of the poly guns, instead of $700+ like it usually does.

[blades67]

I Just Don't Get The Allure of the HK P7 or HK Prices In General

Will someone more intelligent than me explain why HK charges $1,000+ for this sidearm?

If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand anyway.

[CWL]

It is a matter of choice. Some like and some dont -no one can make you want a P7, you either do or don't.

P7M8s have always been shaky in terms of supply from Germany. Although you should be able to find LNIB or refurbs for much much less. When HK discontinues the P7, prices will probably go up.

Supply & demand determines the price of everything. Back when the magazine ban was going into effect here in CA, people were paying $700+ for Glock 17s with one magazine.

Go figure.

[larryw]

HK's service is bad? I've had the opportunity to use it twice, gun was back in my hands in about a week. Total. Roundtrip. Fixed right the first time and several other parts that showed wear were replaced without my asking.

A friend had problems with some defective ammo damaging the gas system on his P7. HK fixed it fast, even though they technically didn't have to.

I hear lots of "Internet lore" about HK's bad service, but have yet to speak with ANYONE who has actually had a bad experience.

HK only sells parts to dealers, is that a problem? (let's call for a boycott! ) If you need parts, call Fountain Firearms and you'll have them the next day or two.

...and what blades67 said...

[Gunhead]

Explain the price? Quality was never cheap...

As long as my 100% reliable M8 shoot just as fine at 25/50 meters as a 95-98% reliable $2800 STI, I really don't care about the $1000+ price...