Most over rated pistol line?

kahrma · December 13, 2002, 08:47 PM

By "pistol line" I mean all guns of a certain type, for example, all the H&K USP pistols and all Golcks fall into the same "line".

My vote goes to the H&K USP line but Glock was in the running also.

I'm not saying that these guns are bad, just that they are too expensive for what they are and the performance they deliver or people just think too highly of them.

Kahrma from Shooters · December 13, 2002, 09:02 PM

I screwed up my vote, it should be Berretta.

hube1236 · December 13, 2002, 09:08 PM

You have to own to vote.

PsychoSword · December 13, 2002, 09:09 PM

Crap, I voted Sig, but meant to vote Beretta too.

Kahrma from Shooters · December 13, 2002, 09:11 PM

Bretta is getting away with it AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

denfoote · December 13, 2002, 09:18 PM

Gotta be the 1911's!!
How a pistol that needs extensive custom work right out of the box (Unless the maker has done all the "bells and whistles" before you even see the gun, at an added cost, BTW!!!) just to function reliably continues to sell is beyond me!!
Now, don't get me wrong, I do like certain JMB designs. The BHP is waaaaayyyy superior to the 1911 in every way!!

Schuey2002 · December 13, 2002, 09:19 PM

If,and I mean "IF",I voted for Sigs,a certain fella' with the user name starting with the letter "A" followed by the name "DAN" ,would track me down and show me the business end of his collection at a very close range.

Just kiddin'....

J.Bourne · December 13, 2002, 09:21 PM

Beretta. But there really isn't a bad one on the list (okay, maybe some bad 1911 makes)...

Nomadz · December 13, 2002, 09:37 PM

Most 'Overrated' :
Lets see...... never rusts..... never fails....will never break
sounds like a GL###

CZ75daddy0405 · December 13, 2002, 11:04 PM

KIMBER!!

3rd ACR · December 13, 2002, 11:22 PM

I'm with Nomadz...
Never rusts, never fails, never... uh... breaks...

I hear it can be UPGRADED though (never recalled)...

Kurt

Handy · December 14, 2002, 12:04 AM

Every pistol listed up there has a tendancy to work out of the box but one.

Why would I buy a Colt just to vote on how slipshod their QC has been since the '70s?

JTWard · December 14, 2002, 12:11 AM

How come every time I try to vote in one of these polls I get this message?

"The action you have attempted could not be performed as your session appears to be invalid. Click the below link to attempt this action again with a new session."

bastiat · December 14, 2002, 12:54 AM

JTWard, you're just voting for the wrong option

Do you have web TV? IIRC, it has trouble with cookies.

Ala Dan · December 14, 2002, 01:10 AM

Att: Schuey 2002- Have No Fear!

I'm sure our most inexperienced member's have at least
heard of SIG'S or SIG-Sauer or SIGARMS. I will let
you off the "hook" this time, old buddy.

Oh, did I tell
you I voted for the Beretta's?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

CWL · December 14, 2002, 01:36 AM

Beretta.

kahrma · December 14, 2002, 01:39 AM

makdaddy03,
I was thinking about putting Kimber on the list but I wanted to keep it down to a reasonable number of options.

Marshall-1 · December 14, 2002, 02:49 AM

JT Ward,

I have no idea why, I can't vote either. I get the same message. I am on AOL and Internet Explorer. Seems I have tried everything? Anyone have any helpful suggestions?

Thanks
Marshall

Boats · December 14, 2002, 02:49 AM

I am sure all of these pistol lines could be characterized as POS weaponry by the adherents of others. Let's go over the stereotypes for the newbies again:

HK USP: Are you kidding? $700-800 for plastic? Trading off their name for suckers to pay too much. One day someone will have to dremel the polymer frame to see if gold dust flakes out of it. Looks only the mother engineers could love. . . .

Glocks: So damn ugly they make HKs look sexy. You can strip the substandard parts out without tools. Factory sights made from imported Lego recycling. You can shoot one forever, or until it breaks or kabooms, which might be never or might be your next trigger pull, Gaston ain't telling. Fires without warning (even if your finger is not on the trigger

) Oh yeah and overpriced, but cheaper than "German engineering" because it ain't.

Sig Classic: Those rust-o-leum specials? You look at them sideways and they begin to corrode. High bore axis. The P226 was runner-up in JSAP trials. Crap service life expectancy. Oh yeah, overpriced for a gun without finish. Don't like slingshotting the slide? Too f'ing bad!

Beretta 92: C'mon! The US Armed Forces' PC POS? The tooth breaker? The politically engineered bid lowest common denominator weapon? It chokes on dustbunnies if anyone could actually grip one to fire it!

Colt 1911: How much does this pistol suck if it was replaced by an Italian POS? Not one has ever fired from an unmodified NIB state. You will spend upwards of $700 just to get a mag full of rounds downrange every other mag. Dangerous. Obsolete. How it could be the most popular combat handgun in history is unfathomable to anyone without $6000 to spend having a useable 1911A1 made.

S&W 3rd Gen: Has anyone but a cop forced to use one ever bought one? Heavy. Made with Beretta style safeties without any of the good looks of the B92. Made by Americans who recently worked for British fifth columnists and now work for spineless American gun grabber agreement non-ripper-uppers! Did I mention ugly and heavy with one of the worst auto pistol triggers ever?

Yes, each of the above can be faulted in their own way, but what all of the above are not, (THANK GOD), are Kahrs. Moonie pistols get my solid, 100% backing, as the most overrated pistol line out there. Small yes, but poorly made in many examples. Not very durable compared to more established competitors. Badly overpriced for what one gets. Kahrs are a trifecta of badly made, badly assembled, and badly supported handguns. As soon as Glock, Beretta, SIG, or HK makes a reasonably priced single stack 9mm with close to a Kahr's dimensions, the floor will be wiped with Bubba Blitz's azz.

dsk · December 14, 2002, 02:56 AM

I don't feel any one design in general is overrated, but the "benefits" of metal injection molded (MIM) parts sure are!

Pendragon · December 14, 2002, 03:37 AM

Quote:

The BHP is waaaaayyyy superior to the 1911 in every way!!

Problems with the BHP compared to the 1911:

1. an inferior trigger - harder to tune.

2. the integral bushing makes accurizing much more difficult.

3. the short tang will bite many. lack of grip safety means a beaver tail requires welding.

4. extractors have many more problems than 1911s.

5. they are fat.

6. they are not available in .45 auto

7. the safety does not have the positive detents of the 1911 - most of the ones I have seen have been too easy to have to safety creep off

8. the mag disconnect safety (see item #1) is unnecessary (to be charitable)

9. superior capacity ruled nearly moot by various laws (especially in CA)

10. there are not "factory" versions that are compact - giving you the same manual of arms in a more concealable package

11. JMB did not finish the P35 design - he dies before it was done and other people finished the design.

The BHP is a nice little gun, but a good 1911 is still our preferred weapon.

Schuey2002 · December 14, 2002, 03:44 AM

Ala Dan,

After reading a ton of your "Buy a Sig " posts,I just couldn't resist.....

As for me, I voted for Beretta's as well..

Archie · December 14, 2002, 01:41 PM

Actually, the most over-rated weapon line is the "wonder-nine". But that ain't on the list. So I voted for Glock.

Glocks are an okay weapon, but not as good as all the hype would indicated. I carry one every day at work and qualify with it and watch others qualify.

The only thing saving Beretta and 3rd Gen S&W from the title is they are not as hyped, either by advertising or "true believers".

SIG and H&K are both overpriced, but not over-rated. They are as good as they claim. Neither claims to be the nee-plus-ultra of handguns. (SIG's controls stink, but that's a different problem.)

The problem most folks have with the 1911 is the same problem lots of folks have the manual transmissions. They don't know how to work them. Besides, automatic transmissions are more modern.

Guns are supposed to be steel and walnut. And if God had meant for autopistols to be double action, He'd have had John Moses Browning design it that way in the first place!

December 14, 2002, 01:54 PM

Autos...get a revolver.

hansolo · December 14, 2002, 02:10 PM

Why wasn't Hi-Point on the Ballot?

It's Glock-ugly
but doesn't have the Accidental Discharge option.

View Poll Results: What is most over rated?
H&K USP line?	93	18.83%
Glock line?	210	42.51%
Sig Classic line?	34	6.88%
Beretta 92 line?	54	10.93%
Colt 1911 line?	79	15.99%
S&W 3rd gen line?	24	4.86%
Voters: 494. You may not vote on this poll

December 13, 2002, 09:08 PM	#3
hube1236 Registration in progress Join Date: April 28, 2000 Location: New Orleans, USA Posts: 785	You have to own to vote. __________________ Violent behavior is an expression of failure. It always takes more brains, resourcefulness, and heroism to make peace than war.

December 13, 2002, 09:18 PM	#6
denfoote Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Location: Buckeye Arizona Posts: 5,526	Gotta be the 1911's!! How a pistol that needs extensive custom work right out of the box (Unless the maker has done all the "bells and whistles" before you even see the gun, at an added cost, BTW!!!) just to function reliably continues to sell is beyond me!! Now, don't get me wrong, I do like certain JMB designs. The BHP is waaaaayyyy superior to the 1911 in every way!! __________________ Ich bin kein Nationalsozialist!!!!!! Ich bin Republikaner!!!!!!!! Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset. Arizona: Flush the Johns!!!

December 13, 2002, 09:21 PM	#8
J.Bourne Member Join Date: December 10, 2002 Posts: 92	Beretta. But there really isn't a bad one on the list (okay, maybe some bad 1911 makes)... Last edited by J.Bourne; December 14, 2002 at 12:14 AM.

December 13, 2002, 11:04 PM	#10
CZ75daddy0405 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2002 Location: WAR EAGLE COUNTRY! Posts: 116	KIMBER!! __________________ CZ 75s Rule! icasualties.org

December 13, 2002, 08:47 PM	#1
kahrma Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2002 Location: The jungle Posts: 369	Most over rated pistol line? By "pistol line" I mean all guns of a certain type, for example, all the H&K USP pistols and all Golcks fall into the same "line". My vote goes to the H&K USP line but Glock was in the running also. I'm not saying that these guns are bad, just that they are too expensive for what they are and the performance they deliver or people just think too highly of them. __________________ Hee Yaaa! Karate chop!

December 13, 2002, 09:02 PM	#2
Kahrma from Shooters Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2002 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 166	I screwed up my vote, it should be Berretta.

December 13, 2002, 09:09 PM	#4
PsychoSword Junior member Join Date: August 11, 2002 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,486	Crap, I voted Sig, but meant to vote Beretta too.

December 13, 2002, 09:11 PM	#5
Kahrma from Shooters Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2002 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 166	Bretta is getting away with it AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

December 13, 2002, 09:19 PM	#7
Schuey2002 Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2002 Posts: 854	If,and I mean "IF",I voted for Sigs,a certain fella' with the user name starting with the letter "A" followed by the name "DAN" ,would track me down and show me the business end of his collection at a very close range. Just kiddin'....

December 13, 2002, 09:37 PM	#9
Nomadz Member Join Date: April 4, 2002 Location: washington Posts: 33	Most 'Overrated' : Lets see...... never rusts..... never fails....will never break sounds like a GL###

December 13, 2002, 11:22 PM	#11
3rd ACR Member Join Date: June 8, 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 45	I'm with Nomadz... Never rusts, never fails, never... uh... breaks... I hear it can be UPGRADED though (never recalled)... Kurt

December 14, 2002, 12:04 AM	#12
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	Every pistol listed up there has a tendancy to work out of the box but one. Why would I buy a Colt just to vote on how slipshod their QC has been since the '70s?

December 14, 2002, 12:11 AM	#13
JTWard Member Join Date: October 16, 2002 Location: Brandon, Florida Posts: 53	How come every time I try to vote in one of these polls I get this message? "The action you have attempted could not be performed as your session appears to be invalid. Click the below link to attempt this action again with a new session." __________________ John T. Ward Brandon, Florida

December 14, 2002, 12:54 AM	#14
bastiat Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2001 Posts: 1,771	JTWard, you're just voting for the wrong option Do you have web TV? IIRC, it has trouble with cookies. __________________ Flashbunny.org - Pro-Freedom Propaganda Politically Incorrect & Pro-Gun Stuff To Buy

December 14, 2002, 01:10 AM	#15
Ala Dan Member in memoriam Join Date: August 13, 1999 Location: In The HOT, Humid, and Mu Posts: 6,116	Att: Schuey 2002- Have No Fear! I'm sure our most inexperienced member's have at least heard of SIG'S or SIG-Sauer or SIGARMS. I will let you off the "hook" this time, old buddy. Oh, did I tell you I voted for the Beretta's? Best Wishes, Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

December 14, 2002, 01:36 AM	#16
CWL Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,576	Beretta. __________________ Vae Victis

December 14, 2002, 01:39 AM	#17
kahrma Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2002 Location: The jungle Posts: 369	makdaddy03, I was thinking about putting Kimber on the list but I wanted to keep it down to a reasonable number of options. __________________ Hee Yaaa! Karate chop!

December 14, 2002, 02:49 AM	#18
Marshall-1 Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2002 Posts: 101	JT Ward, I have no idea why, I can't vote either. I get the same message. I am on AOL and Internet Explorer. Seems I have tried everything? Anyone have any helpful suggestions? Thanks Marshall

December 14, 2002, 02:49 AM	#19
Boats Junior member Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 964	I am sure all of these pistol lines could be characterized as POS weaponry by the adherents of others. Let's go over the stereotypes for the newbies again: HK USP: Are you kidding? $700-800 for plastic? Trading off their name for suckers to pay too much. One day someone will have to dremel the polymer frame to see if gold dust flakes out of it. Looks only the mother engineers could love. . . . Glocks: So damn ugly they make HKs look sexy. You can strip the substandard parts out without tools. Factory sights made from imported Lego recycling. You can shoot one forever, or until it breaks or kabooms, which might be never or might be your next trigger pull, Gaston ain't telling. Fires without warning (even if your finger is not on the trigger ) Oh yeah and overpriced, but cheaper than "German engineering" because it ain't. Sig Classic: Those rust-o-leum specials? You look at them sideways and they begin to corrode. High bore axis. The P226 was runner-up in JSAP trials. Crap service life expectancy. Oh yeah, overpriced for a gun without finish. Don't like slingshotting the slide? Too f'ing bad! Beretta 92: C'mon! The US Armed Forces' PC POS? The tooth breaker? The politically engineered bid lowest common denominator weapon? It chokes on dustbunnies if anyone could actually grip one to fire it! Colt 1911: How much does this pistol suck if it was replaced by an Italian POS? Not one has ever fired from an unmodified NIB state. You will spend upwards of $700 just to get a mag full of rounds downrange every other mag. Dangerous. Obsolete. How it could be the most popular combat handgun in history is unfathomable to anyone without $6000 to spend having a useable 1911A1 made. S&W 3rd Gen: Has anyone but a cop forced to use one ever bought one? Heavy. Made with Beretta style safeties without any of the good looks of the B92. Made by Americans who recently worked for British fifth columnists and now work for spineless American gun grabber agreement non-ripper-uppers! Did I mention ugly and heavy with one of the worst auto pistol triggers ever? Yes, each of the above can be faulted in their own way, but what all of the above are not, (THANK GOD), are Kahrs. Moonie pistols get my solid, 100% backing, as the most overrated pistol line out there. Small yes, but poorly made in many examples. Not very durable compared to more established competitors. Badly overpriced for what one gets. Kahrs are a trifecta of badly made, badly assembled, and badly supported handguns. As soon as Glock, Beretta, SIG, or HK makes a reasonably priced single stack 9mm with close to a Kahr's dimensions, the floor will be wiped with Bubba Blitz's azz.

December 14, 2002, 02:56 AM	#20
dsk Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2001 Posts: 1,603	I don't feel any one design in general is overrated, but the "benefits" of metal injection molded (MIM) parts sure are!

December 14, 2002, 03:44 AM	#22
Schuey2002 Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2002 Posts: 854	Ala Dan, After reading a ton of your "Buy a Sig " posts,I just couldn't resist..... As for me, I voted for Beretta's as well..

December 14, 2002, 01:41 PM	#23
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Glocks. Actually, the most over-rated weapon line is the "wonder-nine". But that ain't on the list. So I voted for Glock. Glocks are an okay weapon, but not as good as all the hype would indicated. I carry one every day at work and qualify with it and watch others qualify. The only thing saving Beretta and 3rd Gen S&W from the title is they are not as hyped, either by advertising or "true believers". SIG and H&K are both overpriced, but not over-rated. They are as good as they claim. Neither claims to be the nee-plus-ultra of handguns. (SIG's controls stink, but that's a different problem.) The problem most folks have with the 1911 is the same problem lots of folks have the manual transmissions. They don't know how to work them. Besides, automatic transmissions are more modern. Guns are supposed to be steel and walnut. And if God had meant for autopistols to be double action, He'd have had John Moses Browning design it that way in the first place! __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

December 14, 2002, 01:54 PM	#24
M58 Guest Posts: n/a	Autos...get a revolver.

December 14, 2002, 02:10 PM	#25
hansolo Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA Posts: 503	Missing Brand(s) Why wasn't Hi-Point on the Ballot? It's Glock-ugly but doesn't have the Accidental Discharge option. __________________ PROUD TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!