Beating the SWAT team, Your suggestions?

NexusLexus · August 17, 1999, 02:05 AM

I am not advocating police resistance or violence to police officers. Law efforcement officals are professionals here to serve us and to enforce the law and I respect their contributions to society.

But lets imagine you are the defender. I was wondering if you could possibly beat the swat team, meaning somehow you shoot your way out and not get killed or wined up in prison. Your goal is to be alive and free.

I watched the movie, "The Professional" starring some french guy and he manage to shoot his way and disguise himself as the NewYork swat team. He came pretty close.

Have there been such real instances of that?
And what is your suggestions for beating the swat team assuming you have any weapon imaginable. My choice would be MP5K with a 50 round clips and couple of berreta handguns and with a grenades strap to my vest. I would have minimal body armor so i can run away fast. I dont know whether I would go out chow-yun fat style or rambo style or maybe like clint eastwood.

You can take refrences from Waco texas, and the North Hollywood shootout.

JJR · August 17, 1999, 02:26 AM

Expecting visitors?

If my Jedi mind-trick didn't work, I'd just make sure I had a bigger SWAT team then they did. Maybe some dancing girls to distract 'em. Good luck and stay away from windows.

Phillip · August 17, 1999, 03:56 AM

Realistically, don't do anything to bring a SWAT team down on you. They have all the resources and time they need.
As far as fantasy land goes, I rather liked the movie "Conspiracy Theory" and the way Mel Gibson's character escaped the goon squad by setting his apartment on fire and then escaping through another.

Hal · August 17, 1999, 05:51 AM

I would either use a Tactical Toilet, a pair of Tactical Socks, or if it got real hairy a Frozen Fish. Since I am far inland from salt water, my choice of frozen fish would be restricted to the fresh water variety. I would of course prefer to use a tuna (big and heavy), but I believe a Walleye would offer a one fin stop if the fin was properly placed.

If the numbers went too far against me, I would of course enlist the aid of several neighborhood cats, both domestic and feral.

After all, it's for the kittens right?

------------------
Want to feel your age?Check it out. http://web.superb.net/boy/age1.html

Mikey · August 17, 1999, 05:58 AM

If SWAT comes after you, and if you are indeed at that location, change your name to Ben Dover 'cause you've just been had!

A wise warrior chooses his battlefield carefully and that one is not a good choice.

Mikey

HS · August 17, 1999, 06:59 AM

I'd like to think that Plexi-Glass windows would be sorta fun....
Imagine their suprise when the 35mm Flashbang bounces back at 'em !

"Outgoing"...err...."INCOMING !!"

Then there's the Whoopi Goldberg movie - Burglar, where she has the steel re-enforced door with the anti-ram rod attached.
She hides in the hidden closet while it takes ages for the LEO's to get in...LOL
A tunnel leading from a basement would come in handy too.

A Gyro 'Copter on the roof would be the ultimate "IN" thing to have for a hasty exit!

------------------
"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/

[This message has been edited by HS (edited August 17, 1999).]

Mike Spight · August 17, 1999, 08:12 AM

NexusLexus:

Phillip already mentioned it: time and resources. You would have neither. Unless you've got some kind of death wish, this is a lose/lose scenario if you're trying to defend from a fixed piece of real estate.

Remember, the defender is always, always at a disadvantage.

Mike

bookkie · August 17, 1999, 08:21 AM

The only thing to say about this case is the old story of the Chinese against Japan... wherein it was reported to the commander of the Chinese that they were losing 7 soldiers for every one of the enemy... He said good, soon no more Japanese.

------------------
Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!

**Rich Lucibella** · August 17, 1999, 08:41 AM

Nexus-
The question is academic as others have pointed out.

None of us are willing to countenance shooting our way out of a SWAT raid. None of us are capable of shooting our way out of a SWAT raid. Should an Evil Power sends and Evil Swat Team after us, none of us intends to be where we're supposed to be.

The input from our Members is heartening. We'll let this thread remain unless you request it's closure.
Rich

[email protected] · August 17, 1999, 09:52 AM

Looking at it from a military perspective, you're gonna lose unless you have "ideal" conditions, and even then, you can't be everywhere at once.

Let's see: They have practically unlimited resources and time on their side, not to mention that you aren't exactly mobile.

Best bet? Fortify your house so that it's not easy to access. Lexan/ Plexi windows with burglar bars. Steel doors with blocks. Concrete walls. Basically make them tie up so much time getting into your house that you use your best option: an escape route.

Short of the aforementioned helicopter

, or a really long underground tunnel or some "Conspiracy Theory" escape route, I don't see you getting out either.

I won't go into boobytraps or other things as this isn't an appropriate discussion for them. Shooting back is most likely going to wind up with you dead, and with a good team, you won't even have a chance to shoot.

Ideally, if you have some kind of force after you, mobility, not static defense, is your best bet, because one person can dissappear pretty quickly and easily. Look at Buford Furrow, perfect example. Shoots up a day care, carjacks someone, and still makes it out of town. It wouldn't have been any effort for him to get away clean.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com

Sambonator · August 17, 1999, 10:00 AM

Shoot your way out?
The only way I can think of to "shoot your way out" would be to have greater numbers of shooters and greater firepower than the SWAT team. Several armed with mini-guns, and 50 caliber machine gun turrets placed at strategic locations.
Of course, once you get out and escape the immediate vicinity, your entire "resistance force" will be hunted down by the National Guard, the Delta Force, the Night Stalkers, ATF, FBI, etc.
If you're just talking "escape" without "shooting your way out," then hidden tunnels are probably best. Aerial departure would work, but you'll be tracked very easily.

dZ · August 17, 1999, 10:09 AM

i think the best solution would be to have heavy duty airlocks on your doors

kinda like a mudroom foyer with discrete reinforced steel bars...
the front door appears to smash open

then the real door locks behind the squad

have a tv in the room and a small fridge
call your lawyer from the safety of your kevlar den
ask your guests to enjoy your hospitality while you wait the arrival of cnn & your Lawyer.

this idea may have some more practical use in high crime areas...

burglars sneak in but they don't sneak out

the human Havaheart trap!

dZ

othermarc · August 17, 1999, 10:41 AM

IN all sincerity, if your life is that far on the edge, and you want ot protect it at all costs...I would set up a remote activated bomb across the street from you, and a "secret" escape route (like in Conspiracy Theory). After the SWAT teams says "hello" detonate the bomb (at your neighbor's expense) and get the hell out of Dodge. Hopefully the SWAT team will be distracted enough for you to relocate and get a new identity.

Gee, that would be a neat action scene for the next Ahhnold movie.

Personally, I think I would wet my pants and pray for a good lawyer.

------------------
Connecticut is the "Constitution" State
http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/beefclub

Anthony · August 17, 1999, 10:45 AM

I think this scenario is best addressed by tearing a page out of the ninja training manual.

Alhtough I'm not into nijitsu or martial arts, I do admire the ninja for their ability to infiltrate a heavily guarded fortress, accomplish their mission, and withdraw undetected.

Bottom line, stealth and deception should be your weapons of choice. A disguise, hidden passageway, secret hiding place, etc.

In a standup fight, you'd lose against a superior force of trained men.

- Anthony

Ed Brunner · August 17, 1999, 11:21 AM

dZ: How many claymores did you say were in the mudroom?

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed

Jessica Wellman · August 17, 1999, 11:27 AM

Hal & HS …too funny

How does a person answer such a question as this one? I hope I'm never up against a SWAT team. I'm sure you've noticed in the movies how it always seems the Bad Guys, or good guys for that matter, can predict the SWAT team's next move. An example of such a case in the movie The Negotiator.

In real life is the SWAT team defeated that often? Atlanta was a good example of how a BG can get away. Hum…maybe some of the tactical trainers who are members of TFL will help us out on this one. I'm sure they are out there reading.

dZ · August 17, 1999, 11:32 AM

now there!
claymores are un fair

the tv is hardwired for Barney and friends and the audio system has the best of the Carpenters on infinite loop

better make the TV bullet proof

dZ

Danger Dave · August 17, 1999, 12:18 PM

I think the only way to "beat" them, would be through intelligence-type operations. Make them believe you're somewhere you're not, or better yet, several places you're not.

It's really impossible to beat the type of seige warfare they could/should use against a static location. Even if a direct assault is unsuccessful, they just back up and surround you (they will have done this before they risk an assault) and wait. If you counter assault, you expose yourself & you're dead (I think that's called "suicide by cop"). If you wait, they cut off all the power & water, continually disturb your sleep (remember, they can pull a shift change every 8 hours - you can't), and just wait for you to quit or do something stupid (after you start hallucinating from lack of sleep, you'll do anything). A good example of what you're up against would be what our troops did to Noriega.

In medieval times, seiges were down to an art form. They knew a good seige was unbreakable, but a well fortified area was almost impenetrable. When an army laid seige to a city or fort, they would sometimes send an envoy and enter into an agreement - if an army arrived to assist the fortification by a certain date, the seige was lifted, otherwise, the seige was successful and the fortification opened the gates. It cost fewer lives that way.

Kodiac · August 17, 1999, 03:39 PM

I'm with Rich,
Don't Be There. They can deploy and surround an empty house... take several Hours to search and inspect it... By the time they are done - you could be anywhere from 60 to 600 miles away. That's a lot of area to search.
If the heat is around to corner - I recomend Brazil...

------------------
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE

Coinneach · August 17, 1999, 03:42 PM

...or you could be in a taxi heading for Vegas. They'd never find ya.

Sorry, that was bad. :P

------------------
A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
Vote Libertarian - For A Change.

Ivan8883 · August 17, 1999, 04:12 PM

When the NWO-US-UN Conglomerate get ready to put the screws on the American people officially, Swat teams will be the least of the peoples worries overall. It could very likely be terror tactics as used by the Nato aggressors in Kosovo. I believe the Federales will be using weapons of mass destruction against pockets of patriots and in the urban areas will use the city gangs to keep order. The Big ''Gansta" will use the little 'gansta to enforce Federal mandates. I think Swat teams will be basically passe when the BIG balloon of martial law goes up. The police will be militarized troops in most cases. Ravings of a madman? Time will tell.But why do I smell martial law in the wind?

HankL · August 17, 1999, 07:38 PM

Nexus, Never ever do anything to get you self into a situation like that. If they come to you by mistake you might get lucky if you are comatose. If you are awake and they only send in scouts they never do this and you repel boarders you can bet SWHTF. At 0300 hrs
you are guilty and you are armed and dangerous! Sucks doesn't it?
IMHO Hank

Spectre · August 17, 1999, 08:05 PM

Anthony,

You got it!

Don't be a target- it's always my favorite strategy. If you have to hit 'em, let 'em think they've won- unless you need them to know they lost.

------------------
John Shirley
www.e-budo.com

John Hunter · August 17, 1999, 08:18 PM

How to beat a SWAT team? Just call for a strike by your air support! What you don't have tactical air support? Well in that case I go along with Rich, you best be somewhere else when they show up. <G>

------------------
John - NRA - Lifer

Ground Level · August 17, 1999, 08:52 PM

Actually there is a way to beat them, it's based on the simple philosophy that sane people don't want to die, and SWAT's basic rule of advantage is through surprise. You have to know they are there before they position for entry.

What you do is pick up the telephone and dial 911. You tell the dispatcher your address and that there is a bunch of people dressed in black clothing and facemasks carrying automatic weapons and a battering ram. You tell the dispatcher that it is either a home invasion robbery, or police impersonators, or if it is the Police then they have the wrong house. It is now on tape on the record, and anything that happens next should be fully documented.

If the intruders are Federal or Military, then the local PD may not know about their operation and should come with sirens wailing. If the intruders are in contact with the local PD, you should be immediately put in telephone contact with the control person in charge outside. They do not, I repeat, they do not want to force entry when the occupants are waiting and know they are coming.

If they believe they have the right address, then you advise them you are coming out after you secure your dog. Then you very slowly open the door and exit hands first and high. It's all up to the lawyers after that. Don't say nothing else beyond what you said to the dispatcher. And you better not have said anything about shooting anyone who comes through the door.

Nuff said. It would be nice if you had a recent video tape of your home and inventory of contents prior to their entry for later court battles. Others may not agree with me, so be it. Sun Tzu (sp?) and other books have been written on how to deal with a stronger opponent or better equiped opponent. When your enemy has the advantage, you don't need a level playing field to get them off balance.

Play safe, but most of all play smart.

Awareness can be as natural as breathing. Make it so.

August 17, 1999, 02:05 AM	#1
NexusLexus Junior Member Join Date: August 7, 1999 Posts: 7	I am not advocating police resistance or violence to police officers. Law efforcement officals are professionals here to serve us and to enforce the law and I respect their contributions to society. But lets imagine you are the defender. I was wondering if you could possibly beat the swat team, meaning somehow you shoot your way out and not get killed or wined up in prison. Your goal is to be alive and free. I watched the movie, "The Professional" starring some french guy and he manage to shoot his way and disguise himself as the NewYork swat team. He came pretty close. Have there been such real instances of that? And what is your suggestions for beating the swat team assuming you have any weapon imaginable. My choice would be MP5K with a 50 round clips and couple of berreta handguns and with a grenades strap to my vest. I would have minimal body armor so i can run away fast. I dont know whether I would go out chow-yun fat style or rambo style or maybe like clint eastwood. You can take refrences from Waco texas, and the North Hollywood shootout.

August 17, 1999, 02:26 AM	#2
JJR Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 1999 Location: Idaho Posts: 381	Expecting visitors? If my Jedi mind-trick didn't work, I'd just make sure I had a bigger SWAT team then they did. Maybe some dancing girls to distract 'em. Good luck and stay away from windows.

August 17, 1999, 03:56 AM	#3
Phillip Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 1999 Location: TX Posts: 403	Realistically, don't do anything to bring a SWAT team down on you. They have all the resources and time they need. As far as fantasy land goes, I rather liked the movie "Conspiracy Theory" and the way Mel Gibson's character escaped the goon squad by setting his apartment on fire and then escaping through another.

August 17, 1999, 05:51 AM	#4
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	I would either use a Tactical Toilet, a pair of Tactical Socks, or if it got real hairy a Frozen Fish. Since I am far inland from salt water, my choice of frozen fish would be restricted to the fresh water variety. I would of course prefer to use a tuna (big and heavy), but I believe a Walleye would offer a one fin stop if the fin was properly placed. If the numbers went too far against me, I would of course enlist the aid of several neighborhood cats, both domestic and feral. After all, it's for the kittens right? ------------------ Want to feel your age?Check it out. http://web.superb.net/boy/age1.html

August 17, 1999, 05:58 AM	#5
Mikey Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1998 Location: Tennessee Posts: 885	If SWAT comes after you, and if you are indeed at that location, change your name to Ben Dover 'cause you've just been had! A wise warrior chooses his battlefield carefully and that one is not a good choice. Mikey

August 17, 1999, 06:59 AM	#6
HS Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: Brisbane.....Australia Posts: 1,258	I'd like to think that Plexi-Glass windows would be sorta fun.... Imagine their suprise when the 35mm Flashbang bounces back at 'em ! "Outgoing"...err...."INCOMING !!" Then there's the Whoopi Goldberg movie - Burglar, where she has the steel re-enforced door with the anti-ram rod attached. She hides in the hidden closet while it takes ages for the LEO's to get in...LOL A tunnel leading from a basement would come in handy too. A Gyro 'Copter on the roof would be the ultimate "IN" thing to have for a hasty exit! ------------------ "The Gun from Down Under !" http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/ [This message has been edited by HS (edited August 17, 1999).]

August 17, 1999, 08:12 AM	#7
Mike Spight Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Leavenworth, KS USA Posts: 606	NexusLexus: Phillip already mentioned it: time and resources. You would have neither. Unless you've got some kind of death wish, this is a lose/lose scenario if you're trying to defend from a fixed piece of real estate. Remember, the defender is always, always at a disadvantage. Mike

August 17, 1999, 08:21 AM	#8
bookkie Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 1999 Location: Arbuckle, CA, usa Posts: 1,269	The only thing to say about this case is the old story of the Chinese against Japan... wherein it was reported to the commander of the Chinese that they were losing 7 soldiers for every one of the enemy... He said good, soon no more Japanese. ------------------ Richard The debate is not about guns, but rather who has the ultimate power to rule, the People or Government. RKBA!

August 17, 1999, 08:41 AM	#9
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Nexus- The question is academic as others have pointed out. None of us are willing to countenance shooting our way out of a SWAT raid. None of us are capable of shooting our way out of a SWAT raid. Should an Evil Power sends and Evil Swat Team after us, none of us intends to be where we're supposed to be. The input from our Members is heartening. We'll let this thread remain unless you request it's closure. Rich

August 17, 1999, 09:52 AM	#10
[email protected] Wise Guy Join Date: October 10, 1998 Posts: 665	Looking at it from a military perspective, you're gonna lose unless you have "ideal" conditions, and even then, you can't be everywhere at once. Let's see: They have practically unlimited resources and time on their side, not to mention that you aren't exactly mobile. Best bet? Fortify your house so that it's not easy to access. Lexan/ Plexi windows with burglar bars. Steel doors with blocks. Concrete walls. Basically make them tie up so much time getting into your house that you use your best option: an escape route. Short of the aforementioned helicopter , or a really long underground tunnel or some "Conspiracy Theory" escape route, I don't see you getting out either. I won't go into boobytraps or other things as this isn't an appropriate discussion for them. Shooting back is most likely going to wind up with you dead, and with a good team, you won't even have a chance to shoot. Ideally, if you have some kind of force after you, mobility, not static defense, is your best bet, because one person can dissappear pretty quickly and easily. Look at Buford Furrow, perfect example. Shoots up a day care, carjacks someone, and still makes it out of town. It wouldn't have been any effort for him to get away clean. Spark ------------------ Kevin Jon Schlossberg SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com www.bladeforums.com

August 17, 1999, 10:00 AM	#11
Sambonator Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 1999 Posts: 218	Shoot your way out? The only way I can think of to "shoot your way out" would be to have greater numbers of shooters and greater firepower than the SWAT team. Several armed with mini-guns, and 50 caliber machine gun turrets placed at strategic locations. Of course, once you get out and escape the immediate vicinity, your entire "resistance force" will be hunted down by the National Guard, the Delta Force, the Night Stalkers, ATF, FBI, etc. If you're just talking "escape" without "shooting your way out," then hidden tunnels are probably best. Aerial departure would work, but you'll be tracked very easily.

August 17, 1999, 10:09 AM	#12
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	i think the best solution would be to have heavy duty airlocks on your doors kinda like a mudroom foyer with discrete reinforced steel bars... the front door appears to smash open then the real door locks behind the squad have a tv in the room and a small fridge call your lawyer from the safety of your kevlar den ask your guests to enjoy your hospitality while you wait the arrival of cnn & your Lawyer. this idea may have some more practical use in high crime areas... burglars sneak in but they don't sneak out the human Havaheart trap! dZ

August 17, 1999, 10:41 AM	#13
othermarc Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 1999 Location: Stamford, CT, USA Posts: 248	IN all sincerity, if your life is that far on the edge, and you want ot protect it at all costs...I would set up a remote activated bomb across the street from you, and a "secret" escape route (like in Conspiracy Theory). After the SWAT teams says "hello" detonate the bomb (at your neighbor's expense) and get the hell out of Dodge. Hopefully the SWAT team will be distracted enough for you to relocate and get a new identity. Gee, that would be a neat action scene for the next Ahhnold movie. Personally, I think I would wet my pants and pray for a good lawyer. ------------------ Connecticut is the "Constitution" State http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/beefclub

August 17, 1999, 10:45 AM	#14
Anthony Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 1998 Location: Dallas, Texas (United States) Posts: 416	I think this scenario is best addressed by tearing a page out of the ninja training manual. Alhtough I'm not into nijitsu or martial arts, I do admire the ninja for their ability to infiltrate a heavily guarded fortress, accomplish their mission, and withdraw undetected. Bottom line, stealth and deception should be your weapons of choice. A disguise, hidden passageway, secret hiding place, etc. In a standup fight, you'd lose against a superior force of trained men. - Anthony

August 17, 1999, 11:21 AM	#15
Ed Brunner Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: Natchez, MS, USA Posts: 2,562	dZ: How many claymores did you say were in the mudroom? ------------------ Better days to be, Ed

August 17, 1999, 11:27 AM	#16
Jessica Wellman Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Corydon, Indiana Posts: 423	Hal & HS …too funny How does a person answer such a question as this one? I hope I'm never up against a SWAT team. I'm sure you've noticed in the movies how it always seems the Bad Guys, or good guys for that matter, can predict the SWAT team's next move. An example of such a case in the movie The Negotiator. In real life is the SWAT team defeated that often? Atlanta was a good example of how a BG can get away. Hum…maybe some of the tactical trainers who are members of TFL will help us out on this one. I'm sure they are out there reading.

August 17, 1999, 11:32 AM	#17
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	now there! claymores are un fair the tv is hardwired for Barney and friends and the audio system has the best of the Carpenters on infinite loop better make the TV bullet proof dZ

August 17, 1999, 12:18 PM	#18
Danger Dave Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 1999 Location: Dallas, GA, USA Posts: 791	I think the only way to "beat" them, would be through intelligence-type operations. Make them believe you're somewhere you're not, or better yet, several places you're not. It's really impossible to beat the type of seige warfare they could/should use against a static location. Even if a direct assault is unsuccessful, they just back up and surround you (they will have done this before they risk an assault) and wait. If you counter assault, you expose yourself & you're dead (I think that's called "suicide by cop"). If you wait, they cut off all the power & water, continually disturb your sleep (remember, they can pull a shift change every 8 hours - you can't), and just wait for you to quit or do something stupid (after you start hallucinating from lack of sleep, you'll do anything). A good example of what you're up against would be what our troops did to Noriega. In medieval times, seiges were down to an art form. They knew a good seige was unbreakable, but a well fortified area was almost impenetrable. When an army laid seige to a city or fort, they would sometimes send an envoy and enter into an agreement - if an army arrived to assist the fortification by a certain date, the seige was lifted, otherwise, the seige was successful and the fortification opened the gates. It cost fewer lives that way.

August 17, 1999, 03:39 PM	#19
Kodiac Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Posts: 1,173	I'm with Rich, Don't Be There. They can deploy and surround an empty house... take several Hours to search and inspect it... By the time they are done - you could be anywhere from 60 to 600 miles away. That's a lot of area to search. If the heat is around to corner - I recomend Brazil... ------------------ "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE

August 17, 1999, 03:42 PM	#20
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	...or you could be in a taxi heading for Vegas. They'd never find ya. Sorry, that was bad. :P ------------------ A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil. Vote Libertarian - For A Change.

August 17, 1999, 04:12 PM	#21
Ivan8883 Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 1999 Posts: 578	When the NWO-US-UN Conglomerate get ready to put the screws on the American people officially, Swat teams will be the least of the peoples worries overall. It could very likely be terror tactics as used by the Nato aggressors in Kosovo. I believe the Federales will be using weapons of mass destruction against pockets of patriots and in the urban areas will use the city gangs to keep order. The Big ''Gansta" will use the little 'gansta to enforce Federal mandates. I think Swat teams will be basically passe when the BIG balloon of martial law goes up. The police will be militarized troops in most cases. Ravings of a madman? Time will tell.But why do I smell martial law in the wind?

August 17, 1999, 07:38 PM	#22
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	Nexus, Never ever do anything to get you self into a situation like that. If they come to you by mistake you might get lucky if you are comatose. If you are awake and they only send in scouts they never do this and you repel boarders you can bet SWHTF. At 0300 hrs you are guilty and you are armed and dangerous! Sucks doesn't it? IMHO Hank

August 17, 1999, 08:05 PM	#23
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	Anthony, You got it! Don't be a target- it's always my favorite strategy. If you have to hit 'em, let 'em think they've won- unless you need them to know they lost. ------------------ John Shirley www.e-budo.com

August 17, 1999, 08:18 PM	#24
John Hunter Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 1999 Location: Lake Station, IN USA Posts: 107	How to beat a SWAT team? Just call for a strike by your air support! What you don't have tactical air support? Well in that case I go along with Rich, you best be somewhere else when they show up. <G> ------------------ John - NRA - Lifer

August 17, 1999, 08:52 PM	#25
Ground Level Member Join Date: August 10, 1999 Posts: 83	Actually there is a way to beat them, it's based on the simple philosophy that sane people don't want to die, and SWAT's basic rule of advantage is through surprise. You have to know they are there before they position for entry. What you do is pick up the telephone and dial 911. You tell the dispatcher your address and that there is a bunch of people dressed in black clothing and facemasks carrying automatic weapons and a battering ram. You tell the dispatcher that it is either a home invasion robbery, or police impersonators, or if it is the Police then they have the wrong house. It is now on tape on the record, and anything that happens next should be fully documented. If the intruders are Federal or Military, then the local PD may not know about their operation and should come with sirens wailing. If the intruders are in contact with the local PD, you should be immediately put in telephone contact with the control person in charge outside. They do not, I repeat, they do not want to force entry when the occupants are waiting and know they are coming. If they believe they have the right address, then you advise them you are coming out after you secure your dog. Then you very slowly open the door and exit hands first and high. It's all up to the lawyers after that. Don't say nothing else beyond what you said to the dispatcher. And you better not have said anything about shooting anyone who comes through the door. Nuff said. It would be nice if you had a recent video tape of your home and inventory of contents prior to their entry for later court battles. Others may not agree with me, so be it. Sun Tzu (sp?) and other books have been written on how to deal with a stronger opponent or better equiped opponent. When your enemy has the advantage, you don't need a level playing field to get them off balance. Play safe, but most of all play smart. Awareness can be as natural as breathing. Make it so.