Defend the Alamo: Time Travel Fantasy

Matt VDW · March 14, 2000, 01:12 PM

Imagine that an eccentric time traveller from the future with an interest in military history visits you and makes an offer: He'll take you and 300 pounds of equipment back in time to help Col. Travis and company defend the Alamo. You'll arrive 48 hours before the battle, so you won't have much time to train the troops in the use of modern weaponry.

What do you take?

Bezdelnik · March 14, 2000, 01:26 PM

Maybe a couple of submachine guns? That would turn the tide a bit, and it probably wouldn't be hard to train some troops to fire them. I realize, though, that the weight limit would severely constrict ammunition....

Coinneach · March 14, 2000, 01:52 PM

4 Claymores (give Trav the clacker), 2 M-16s, 10 30-rd mags for each, and 2 cases of ball.

Santa Anna's force wasn't very numerous, IIRC. The Claymores would play hell with the initial attack and demoralize the surviving troops. The survivors could be easily turned into swiss cheese by two well-trained defenders with 1000 rounds of FMJ .223.

------------------
"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson

Zeebrahed · March 14, 2000, 02:08 PM

Easy one. SLR-95 AK's (10 or so) and enough 30 round mags you can fit under the weight limit.

Little training, no jams, no cleaning necessary, no idiot levers, just slap a mag in and go.

Be over pretty quick by my reckoning...

dZ · March 14, 2000, 02:37 PM

suitcase nuke
video projector
CCD video camera

project Col Travis onto the outer wall
50 foot high

ask em to leave

if they don't, ya warned em

woooomp!

dZ

TheBluesMan · March 14, 2000, 03:22 PM

Zebrahed - You took my idea.

You wouldn't need more than 48 minutes to train the Alamo troops to use an AK, let alone 48 hours. The AK is simplicity itself. Take along a few dozen hand grenades and you'd be set.

I love the SLR, but wonder about the extra weight of the milled receiver vs. the lighter stamped receiver of any other AK. I don't think that accuracy would be that much of an issue, they'd both deadly.

------------------
RKBA!

"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

Matt VDW · March 14, 2000, 03:46 PM

dZ: Where are you going to plug in your video projector?

Delivering the suitcase nuke into the Mexican camp would be another problem.

No one's mentioned anything to deal with the Mexican artillery. How about a long range .308 (or .25-06) rifle with a scope to pick off the artillerymen and maybe even Santa Anna himself?

dZ · March 14, 2000, 05:03 PM

the video plugs right into the batteries charged by the suitcase nuke of course!

getting it down to the enemy camp is what i would rely on Mr.Crocket to do.

dZ

Alan B · March 14, 2000, 05:09 PM

One Mini gun and nice battery and the rest in Ammo
"GE we bring good things to life"

Gunslinger · March 14, 2000, 05:19 PM

I'd take Rosie O, stip her nekked, throw her over the wall and wait for them to run back to Mex.........wait a minute...won't work, she'd be over the weight limit.

------------------
Gunslinger

We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.

DC · March 14, 2000, 05:32 PM

4 M16 and 2 of Gale's .50BMG (each with 50rd of standard and 75 of incendiary)..the rest of the weight is loaded 30rd mags for the M16.
The .50BMG work on the artillery, ammo/powder stores, the Generalissimo and officers

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

Long Path · March 14, 2000, 06:02 PM

Recall that the Mexicans were using Brown Bess muskets, mostly. These guys considered you out of range if you were more than 50 yards away, except by volley fire. Consider that rate of fire was VERY slow (3-5 shots/min) by both sides. With battlements for the Mexican army to scale (initially), one needn't kill the oncoming soldier; wounding would do.

Thus:

(10) Ruger 10/.22's ~ 65 lbs.
(50) Fifty-rd magazines, ~50 lbs (?)
(10) Browning Buckmark 6" pistols ~25 lbs.
(01) Steyer Scout, ~ 7 lbs
(01) Cleaning kit (a LOT of shooting gets done, here, people!

) ~ 3 lbs
(300) Rds of .308 Premium softpoint
(40) Rds of .308 tracer.
Remainder of the weight in brick after ever-loving brick of .22LR. How many rounds of .22 will fit in about 100 lbs?

The main problem for the Texicans was overcoming the vastly superior numbers of the Mexicans. When the charge came, the above list would seem to give the best chance at the most chargers being hit by defenders at the battlements, given a mere 300 lbs. Pistols for inside the walls, too.

Dumb time machines! When're they gonna increase the trunk capacity on these things? And with gas the way it is lately, you'd think they could make 'em just a bit more economical to operate....

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited March 14, 2000).]

Spectre · March 14, 2000, 06:04 PM

40mm M79, 2 60 rounds, 40mm
4 M4's 2000 rounds 5.56x45mm

and one command-detonated ERW! Come to papa...

Joey · March 14, 2000, 07:12 PM

1 MK19 40mm full auto grenade launcher with lots of mixed ammo (buckshot and HEDP). This pig will really reach out and touch anything and everything within sight.

Lavan · March 14, 2000, 07:37 PM

A huge INS poster?

TOMBERGSTR · March 14, 2000, 08:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Long Path:

The main problem for the Texicans was overcoming the vastly superior numbers of the Mexicans
[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited March 14, 2000).][/quote]

Cut to the chase . I'll be overhead in " Puff " . You call the spot , I'll make the shot . As they say back in Noo Yawk ......" I got your superior numbers ....Right HERE !!!

------------------
TOM SASS MEMBER AMERICAN LEGION MEMBER NRA MEMBER

Santa Claus · March 14, 2000, 09:13 PM

Ho Ho Ho - Bet you boys and girls are surprised to see me here this time of year. What can I say, I just woke up from a long winter's nap. Ho Ho Ho.

It's good to see all of you playing so nicely, even with Christmas more than ten months away. Santa would like to play too, but all of you are just not used to the time travel thing and are thinking too three dimensionally. Take a hint from old Kris Kringle, have that eccentric time traveller take you back to HIS time on the way to the Alamo and pick up a REAL gun. A RAILGUN that is.

------------------
Ho, Ho, Ho!

Glenn E. Meyer · March 15, 2000, 12:10 AM

120 SW 317 Kit guns - that's about 75 pounds.
The rest would be some high velocity 22 LR
- Stingers maybe.

You want to maximize the active guns. You
would have decent range. I shoot 100 yards
with 22 LRs easily at man size targets.

You need max number of rounds.

Maybe one or two light wt. rifles for
officer sniping.

TEX · March 15, 2000, 12:27 AM

3 super light weight skeletonized carbon fiber tanked flame throwers that would work off of locally obtained oil or alcohol (minimum fuel taken in time machine)

2 Lightened M79 Grenade Launchers with 50 HE Willie Peter rounds and maybe 6 CS rounds)

4 Scoped and skeletonized Ruger 10-22 magnums with bullet proof rotating lexan face plates and as many rounds and mags as the the remaining weight would come to.

1 single thermonuclear handgrenade.

2 Battery operated Bull Horns with rock music or VOICE OF GOD in spanish telling the Mexicans to retreat or they would all burn in Hell and that Santa Anna was gay.

Excess weight would have to be trimmed from everything just like launching a space shuttle or builting a race car. Times not important right, (time machine) so you could take as much time as necessary to trim extra weight.

Flame throwers would keep them off up close and be real tuff on moral (theirs)

M79 could reach out to where the Mexican artillary was and put those, or their crews, out of comission and perhaps even reach the command center. The Willie Peter would really get their attention also. The CS would get them screwed up and baffeled - Bull horns could claim it was the breath of the devil himself, etc., etc.

The .22 mags would be deadly out to 200 yards or more and be pretty damn accurate. Many of the attackers could be dropped before they were even in really effective range for their own weapons.

The bull horn crap would really screw them up mind wise. Who wants to fight God. In the early 1800's only his voice could possibly be that loud.

The single nuke grenade would be in case the fort was overrun. It would have a 45 minute time delay to give old Santa Anna time to come in for a look around before the bright flash of light. This would enforce in any possible survivors that in deed God was on the rebels' side possibly creating a deep wanting to quietly slip back down across the Rio Grande.

That should just about do it.

TEX

PTGDVC · March 15, 2000, 01:40 AM

12 M1 Garands and 170lbs of .30-06 in clips.

Gunter · March 15, 2000, 02:21 AM

Visit Luke Skywalker on the way there, and bring him and one (or more) of those tripod-mounted ray guns...

Visit Arnie as the Terminator and bring it along (that would scare them, and nothing less than a direct hit with artillery would stop him)...

Visit MiB ... remember the tiny little pistol ...

Christopher · March 15, 2000, 03:15 AM

Ma Deuce, and the rest of the weight in ammo.

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited March 15, 2000).]

Greg G · March 15, 2000, 09:34 AM

Several years ago Saturday Night Live did a
skit called "What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub?" They had Spartacus and someone else flying around checking out the Roman army.
What made it funny was that it was so ridiculous.

**4V50 Gary** · March 15, 2000, 10:16 AM

Gas masks and lotsa mustard gas. Hey, it's more environmentally friendly than biological warfare!

Tim Burke · March 15, 2000, 12:12 PM

A suppressed AR-15 with night scope, and the rest in ammo.

March 14, 2000, 01:12 PM	#1
Matt VDW Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 1999 Posts: 1,315	Imagine that an eccentric time traveller from the future with an interest in military history visits you and makes an offer: He'll take you and 300 pounds of equipment back in time to help Col. Travis and company defend the Alamo. You'll arrive 48 hours before the battle, so you won't have much time to train the troops in the use of modern weaponry. What do you take?

March 14, 2000, 01:26 PM	#2
Bezdelnik Member Join Date: February 17, 2000 Posts: 65	Maybe a couple of submachine guns? That would turn the tide a bit, and it probably wouldn't be hard to train some troops to fire them. I realize, though, that the weight limit would severely constrict ammunition....

March 14, 2000, 01:52 PM	#3
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	4 Claymores (give Trav the clacker), 2 M-16s, 10 30-rd mags for each, and 2 cases of ball. Santa Anna's force wasn't very numerous, IIRC. The Claymores would play hell with the initial attack and demoralize the surviving troops. The survivors could be easily turned into swiss cheese by two well-trained defenders with 1000 rounds of FMJ .223. ------------------ "If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance." -- Samuel Johnson

March 14, 2000, 02:08 PM	#4
Zeebrahed Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 1999 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 149	Easy one. SLR-95 AK's (10 or so) and enough 30 round mags you can fit under the weight limit. Little training, no jams, no cleaning necessary, no idiot levers, just slap a mag in and go. Be over pretty quick by my reckoning...

March 14, 2000, 02:37 PM	#5
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	suitcase nuke video projector CCD video camera project Col Travis onto the outer wall 50 foot high ask em to leave if they don't, ya warned em woooomp! dZ

March 14, 2000, 03:22 PM	#6
TheBluesMan Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,558	Zebrahed - You took my idea. You wouldn't need more than 48 minutes to train the Alamo troops to use an AK, let alone 48 hours. The AK is simplicity itself. Take along a few dozen hand grenades and you'd be set. I love the SLR, but wonder about the extra weight of the milled receiver vs. the lighter stamped receiver of any other AK. I don't think that accuracy would be that much of an issue, they'd both deadly. ------------------ RKBA! "The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security" Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio. Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

March 14, 2000, 03:46 PM	#7
Matt VDW Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 1999 Posts: 1,315	dZ: Where are you going to plug in your video projector? Delivering the suitcase nuke into the Mexican camp would be another problem. No one's mentioned anything to deal with the Mexican artillery. How about a long range .308 (or .25-06) rifle with a scope to pick off the artillerymen and maybe even Santa Anna himself?

March 14, 2000, 05:03 PM	#8
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	the video plugs right into the batteries charged by the suitcase nuke of course! getting it down to the enemy camp is what i would rely on Mr.Crocket to do. dZ

March 14, 2000, 05:09 PM	#9
Alan B Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 1999 Posts: 335	One Mini gun and nice battery and the rest in Ammo "GE we bring good things to life"

March 14, 2000, 05:19 PM	#10
Gunslinger Junior member Join Date: January 5, 1999 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 2,105	I'd take Rosie O, stip her nekked, throw her over the wall and wait for them to run back to Mex.........wait a minute...won't work, she'd be over the weight limit. ------------------ Gunslinger We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.

March 14, 2000, 05:32 PM	#11
DC Moderator Emeritus Join Date: September 30, 1998 Location: Calif Posts: 4,229	4 M16 and 2 of Gale's .50BMG (each with 50rd of standard and 75 of incendiary)..the rest of the weight is loaded 30rd mags for the M16. The .50BMG work on the artillery, ammo/powder stores, the Generalissimo and officers ------------------ "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

March 14, 2000, 06:02 PM	#12
Long Path Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,899	Recall that the Mexicans were using Brown Bess muskets, mostly. These guys considered you out of range if you were more than 50 yards away, except by volley fire. Consider that rate of fire was VERY slow (3-5 shots/min) by both sides. With battlements for the Mexican army to scale (initially), one needn't kill the oncoming soldier; wounding would do. Thus: (10) Ruger 10/.22's ~ 65 lbs. (50) Fifty-rd magazines, ~50 lbs (?) (10) Browning Buckmark 6" pistols ~25 lbs. (01) Steyer Scout, ~ 7 lbs (01) Cleaning kit (a LOT of shooting gets done, here, people! ) ~ 3 lbs (300) Rds of .308 Premium softpoint (40) Rds of .308 tracer. Remainder of the weight in brick after ever-loving brick of .22LR. How many rounds of .22 will fit in about 100 lbs? The main problem for the Texicans was overcoming the vastly superior numbers of the Mexicans. When the charge came, the above list would seem to give the best chance at the most chargers being hit by defenders at the battlements, given a mere 300 lbs. Pistols for inside the walls, too. Dumb time machines! When're they gonna increase the trunk capacity on these things? And with gas the way it is lately, you'd think they could make 'em just a bit more economical to operate.... [This message has been edited by Long Path (edited March 14, 2000).]

March 14, 2000, 06:04 PM	#13
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	40mm M79, 2 60 rounds, 40mm 4 M4's 2000 rounds 5.56x45mm and one command-detonated ERW! Come to papa...

March 14, 2000, 07:12 PM	#14
Joey Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Posts: 437	1 MK19 40mm full auto grenade launcher with lots of mixed ammo (buckshot and HEDP). This pig will really reach out and touch anything and everything within sight.

March 14, 2000, 07:37 PM	#15
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,716	A huge INS poster?

March 14, 2000, 08:02 PM	#16
TOMBERGSTR Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Posts: 104	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Long Path: The main problem for the Texicans was overcoming the vastly superior numbers of the Mexicans [This message has been edited by Long Path (edited March 14, 2000).][/quote] Cut to the chase . I'll be overhead in " Puff " . You call the spot , I'll make the shot . As they say back in Noo Yawk ......" I got your superior numbers ....Right HERE !!! ------------------ TOM SASS MEMBER AMERICAN LEGION MEMBER NRA MEMBER

March 14, 2000, 09:13 PM	#17
Santa Claus Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: North Pole Posts: 52	Ho Ho Ho - Bet you boys and girls are surprised to see me here this time of year. What can I say, I just woke up from a long winter's nap. Ho Ho Ho. It's good to see all of you playing so nicely, even with Christmas more than ten months away. Santa would like to play too, but all of you are just not used to the time travel thing and are thinking too three dimensionally. Take a hint from old Kris Kringle, have that eccentric time traveller take you back to HIS time on the way to the Alamo and pick up a REAL gun. A RAILGUN that is. ------------------ Ho, Ho, Ho!

March 15, 2000, 12:10 AM	#18
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	120 SW 317 Kit guns - that's about 75 pounds. The rest would be some high velocity 22 LR - Stingers maybe. You want to maximize the active guns. You would have decent range. I shoot 100 yards with 22 LRs easily at man size targets. You need max number of rounds. Maybe one or two light wt. rifles for officer sniping.

March 15, 2000, 12:27 AM	#19
TEX Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Texas Posts: 197	3 super light weight skeletonized carbon fiber tanked flame throwers that would work off of locally obtained oil or alcohol (minimum fuel taken in time machine) 2 Lightened M79 Grenade Launchers with 50 HE Willie Peter rounds and maybe 6 CS rounds) 4 Scoped and skeletonized Ruger 10-22 magnums with bullet proof rotating lexan face plates and as many rounds and mags as the the remaining weight would come to. 1 single thermonuclear handgrenade. 2 Battery operated Bull Horns with rock music or VOICE OF GOD in spanish telling the Mexicans to retreat or they would all burn in Hell and that Santa Anna was gay. Excess weight would have to be trimmed from everything just like launching a space shuttle or builting a race car. Times not important right, (time machine) so you could take as much time as necessary to trim extra weight. Flame throwers would keep them off up close and be real tuff on moral (theirs) M79 could reach out to where the Mexican artillary was and put those, or their crews, out of comission and perhaps even reach the command center. The Willie Peter would really get their attention also. The CS would get them screwed up and baffeled - Bull horns could claim it was the breath of the devil himself, etc., etc. The .22 mags would be deadly out to 200 yards or more and be pretty damn accurate. Many of the attackers could be dropped before they were even in really effective range for their own weapons. The bull horn crap would really screw them up mind wise. Who wants to fight God. In the early 1800's only his voice could possibly be that loud. The single nuke grenade would be in case the fort was overrun. It would have a 45 minute time delay to give old Santa Anna time to come in for a look around before the bright flash of light. This would enforce in any possible survivors that in deed God was on the rebels' side possibly creating a deep wanting to quietly slip back down across the Rio Grande. That should just about do it. TEX

March 15, 2000, 01:40 AM	#20
PTGDVC Member Join Date: February 17, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 95	12 M1 Garands and 170lbs of .30-06 in clips.

March 15, 2000, 02:21 AM	#21
Gunter Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 279	Visit Luke Skywalker on the way there, and bring him and one (or more) of those tripod-mounted ray guns... Visit Arnie as the Terminator and bring it along (that would scare them, and nothing less than a direct hit with artillery would stop him)... Visit MiB ... remember the tiny little pistol ...

March 15, 2000, 03:15 AM	#22
Christopher Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 1999 Location: Joliet, Il. Posts: 176	Ma Deuce, and the rest of the weight in ammo. [This message has been edited by Christopher (edited March 15, 2000).]

March 15, 2000, 09:34 AM	#23
Greg G Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1998 Posts: 378	Several years ago Saturday Night Live did a skit called "What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub?" They had Spartacus and someone else flying around checking out the Roman army. What made it funny was that it was so ridiculous.

March 15, 2000, 10:16 AM	#24
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Gas masks and lotsa mustard gas. Hey, it's more environmentally friendly than biological warfare!

March 15, 2000, 12:12 PM	#25
Tim Burke Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 1999 Posts: 551	A suppressed AR-15 with night scope, and the rest in ammo.