Which Progressive to buy?

[Peter M. Eick]

I know this has been covered, and I read the search results, but I am curious if any opinions had changed.

Here is my problem. I have been loading with my rockchucker for about 20 years or so and I am finally running out of time to single cycle enought brass to keep up with my hobby. I currently have over 8,000 pieces of brass that need to be resized and loaded, and I am a bit overwhelmed!

Because I have the rockchucker, all of my dies are 7/8x14's from Lee, RCBS and Dillon, so that eliminates the Dillon SDB unit. I looked at the Lee unit, but the amount of plastic scares me off. I am currently reloading for 380auto, 38special, 357sig, 9mm, 10mm, 40S&W, 45acp, 7-08 and .308. My .308 is for my M1A's, so I need to get a progressive that can handle rifle rounds. I tend to shoot the same load for a given gun, so I usually crank out batches of 500 rnds per gun, so I think this bodes for a progressive. Finally, since I have a new daughter, I am eliminating all lead bullets from my house and going to shoot only TMJ, or FMJ style bullets for a while (trying to keep the lead dust down a bit).

Now enough on the background. What do you all recommend and why, 550B, 650, or the new RCBS unit (or something else)? Also, do my standard carbide dies need to be replaced?, dillon seems to indicate that I should.

[beemerb]

My choice is the 550B.Reason?Dillon quality-warrente-ease of operation and it works.I can crank out 500rds an hr witrh little problem.It doeasn't break.The only thing that I do is resize my 308 brass on a single stage.Reason, I like hornady case lube and it does leave a film.I throw them back into the tumbler after I resize.They are then totaly clean when I run them through the dillon.
Thats my choice and the reasons.
PS-You are useing a number of the same size bases so the cost of conversions will be low.

[Steve Smith]

I like the manual indexing of the 550B. You have more control and you'll be surprised at how little time it adds...it'a a good machine.

[JerryM]

I have a 650, but you will be satisfied with either the 550 or 650. Some prefer manual indexing. I prefer the auto indexing. Take your pick, but go with a Dillon and you will never be sorry. It is basically a lifetime investment and the price pales when compared with the cost of the components you will use in a couple or three years. Jerry

[bk40]

550 or 650

[JHS]

I was loading on my RCBS single stage up to two months ago. Now have a 550B..........WOW!!
Go ahead and get the dillon dies.
Stay safe.
John

[trlmech]

The blue press catalog offers a spare parts kit for the Dillon presses. RCBS dosen't have a similar kit. Why, because the 2 thousand has less parts, superior enginerring. It took them a long time but they did get it right.

[Kenneth L. Walters]

For decades I collected progressives, all of which I at least tried to use. At the height of it I suppose I probaly had three dozen. The Lee machines are interesting but, well, not all that wonderful. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Dillon's that I've owned. I had all of them except the 1050 and 650. My choice, however, is the new RCBS because the strip primer system completely solves the primer feeding problems.

[ArmySon]

I originally had just a Dillon 550B and Rock Chucker. Then I bought a 650 and man is this thing awesome. While my 550 is a good press, the 650 blows it away.

I would suggest you keep loading rifle on the Rock Chucker and do all your pistol calibers on the progressive. I highly recommend the 650 but you can't go wrong with either Dillon.

[rr41mag]

I bought on seperate occasions 2 rock chucker sets,one set for pistol one for rifle. since I had so much RCBS I decided to try the piggyback system. I don't know about dillon but the piggyback will put out 100 rnds of .45 in about 25 mins. This is the only time I timed it, otherwise I don't keep up with it. Being a machinist I took the top plate to work and milled out 5 extras. RCBS wants 35 bucks for them. I wrote RCBS a nice letter and they sent me a whole bunch of extra parts. FWIW

[The specialist]

The 550b hands down. I can do 100 rnds in about 10 mins on my 550b. I have never had any primer feeding problems. Dillon has the best customer service I have ever dealt with. Enough said get the Dillon. And unlike Florida you wont have to recount the ballots here !

[Johnny Guest]

- - - Is my personal favorite. I don't personally feel the need to upgrade to the larger, faster presses. The 550 is quick on caliber changes, especially if you don't have to change primer size.

I am really sold on the Dillon dies, as well--Especially for pistol and straight wall rifle cases. Bottle neck cases can easily be loaded on anybody's 7/8 x 14 dies. Really, I load a lot on various RCBS dies on my Dillon--you just have to be a bit more careful that the case enters the die mouth straight. And, when using cast bullets, the Dillon dies are VERY easy to clean without having to remove the die body from the tool head, so you can clean up the seating and crimping dies of the residual bullet lube and shaved-off lead.

For loading rifle cases, I do the case prep in advance--
Size and deprime on an RCBS single stage, then trim with a Forster rig, chamfer and bevel, and then vibrate/clean. At that point, I leave the die out of position 1 and only prime there. Position 2 is powder charging, #3 is for bullet seating. I usually do not apply crimp to rifle cases.

Best of luck in your choice.
Johnny

[Abe Normal]

I just picked up (3 weeks ago) the RCBS 2000 and would buy it again if this one was stolen or burned to the ground! I like having the fifth die station and the micrometer type powder measure. As to the APS primer system, well, all you guys using the Dillon machine, just try loading 500 primers in those little damn tubes in less than 10 minutes without dillons fancy/expensive electric loading machine. As the others have said the APS primer system is super slick and the 2000 comes with a primer strip loading tool at no extra cost! The only bitch I have to date is that no roller type handle is offered, perhaps in the future.

OBTW; It's on sale at Midway this month for $319 shipping included.

Abe

[BILLG]

Abe How long does it take you to load primers in your priming strips?BILLG

[arnie]

Most reloaders recommend the Dillons. I have never heard anybody say they regret getting a Dillon, so that is the safe answer. I have a RCBS Piggyback and a RCBS Pro 2000. Both machines work fairly well, but have some quirks. I like the Piggyback when it is functioning well, but it must be kept clean to operate. If it gets dirty, the priming system sticks, then you start dropping loose powder and it gets dirtier, then the auto-progressive feature can stick, and if you force it, you damage the nylon bushing, then it won't cycle properly until you replace the bushing. Some guys use cans of compressed air to occassionally clean the machine. That helps. RCBS is very good about providing replacement parts free of charge. The Pro 2000 is a heavy, well-built machine. The primer system works well, and easily, although I have had some stuck primers with it that have bound up the machine. You can buy the CCI primers already loaded in the strips. You can save the used strips and reload them with the strip primer reloading tool. It doesn't take too long to load the strips, but when I did it with some non- CCI primers, the primers were too loose and some fell out. The manual indexing on the Pro 2000 makes the machine more dependable, and less jerky, but increases the chance of a double powder load. I did a double powder load once. I think I was having trouble with seating of a primer, and pulled the lever twice without indexing the shellholder. I caught it before seating a bullet, but it scared me. I have ordered a lockout die from RCBS to prevent double powder loads. Unfortunately, if I use the lockout die, I won't be able to crimp in a seperate stage. I wish it was a 6 position press instead of a 5 position press. I have cranked out quite a bit of ammp on each press. As I get used to them, I have less jamming problems. I think each machine will last a long time.

[arnie]

Most reloaders recommend the Dillons. I have never heard anybody say they regret getting a Dillon, so that is the safe answer. I have a RCBS Piggyback and a RCBS Pro 2000. Both machines work fairly well, but have some quirks. I like the Piggyback when it is functioning well, but it must be kept clean to operate. If it gets dirty, the priming system sticks, then you start dropping loose powder and it gets dirtier, then the auto-progressive feature can stick, and if you force it, you damage the nylon bushing, then it won't cycle properly until you replace the bushing. Some guys use cans of compressed air to occassionally clean the machine. That helps. RCBS is very good about providing replacement parts free of charge. The Pro 2000 is a heavy, well-built machine. The primer system works well, and easily, although I have had some stuck primers with it that have bound up the machine. You can buy the CCI primers already loaded in the strips. You can save the used strips and reload them with the strip primer reloading tool. It doesn't take too long to load the strips, but when I did it with some non- CCI primers, the primers were too loose and some fell out. The manual indexing on the Pro 2000 makes the machine more dependable, and less jerky, but increases the chance of a double powder load. I did a double powder load once. I think I was having trouble with seating of a primer, and pulled the lever twice without indexing the shellholder. I caught it before seating a bullet, but it scared me. I have ordered a lockout die from RCBS to prevent double powder loads. Unfortunately, if I use the lockout die, I won't be able to crimp in a seperate stage. I wish it was a 6 position press instead of a 5 position press. I have cranked out quite a bit of ammp on each press. As I get used to them, I have less jamming problems. I think each machine will last a long time.

[Guy B. Meredith]

Peter and arnie,

The Hornady Lock-N-Load is a five stage press and, with a minor alteration, can be used with the RCBS lockout die as well as separate seating and crimp dies for pistol calibers. Not sure about rifle. Just need to thread the rifle powder sleeve and screw in a Lyman Universal expander insert for the appropriate caliber.

I am currently using the RCBS lockout with a combination seating/crimp die. I load .38 sp. and .357 magnum rounds for action pistol and have not found a need for the separate dies. I will try setting up with the separate dies when finances allow just for curiosity sake.

The Hornady Lock-N-Load is an auto indexing unit with many of the features of the Dillon 650 at a Dillon 550 price. The case actuated powder measure is a self contained unit that can be used at any one of three different stations, depending on your set up. The dies and powder measure can be individually removed/replaced without disturbing their settings because of the Lock-N-Load sleeve feature.

You could probably disable the auto indexing feature if you want, but would require removing at least one part.

The powder measure that came with my unit has micrometer adjustment. I have found charges to be very consistent over hundreds of rounds once the powder has packed (tap the measure a couple of times before weighing test samples to settle quickly). However, I shoot only action pistol and do not have experience enough to speak for bullseye, etc. Usually I run 6 charges, measure and then check one of the first 20 on a full run. After that maybe just once every couple of hundred rounds.

I can comfortably load 100 rounds in 12 to 15 minutes. At that point I take a break from the tedium of production to reload the primer tube and transfer the ammo to trays. The other night I inspected 400 newly cleaned cases, checked the powder charge and reloaded 400 rounds in about 2 hours, including coffee breaks.

With the auto indexing and RCBS lockout die I have never had a round in the 6500 I've reloaded that did not go bang. The system has saved my arse when I was reloading while too tired or when some corn cob media had gotten by me during inspection.

[Marshal]

I just started using a Dillon 650 after trying out a 550B. While I loved the 550B and had no problem with manual indexing, my wife also reloads and she much prefers the powdercheck system and the auto-indexing on the 650. It took me a while to adapt my technique, but once I got comfortable I was able to crank out plenty of rounds with no trouble. I'd go with either one.

[Abe Normal]

BILLG wrote;
Abe How long does it take you to load primers in your priming strips?
--------------------->>>
Bill,

As I tried to say (rather badly as I now reread it) in my original post, it's taking me a about 10 minutes to load 500 primers into the strips, without any cussing! It really is a slick system!

[The specialist]

It takes me about 5 minutes to load 5 Dillon primer tubes. Each tube holds 100 primers. Oh, and you don't have to worry about any falling out.

[linngl]

Received my new Pro 2000 last week. Looked at the Dillon 550B, long and hard before making a decision. Would have paid same amount for either. Bought the Pro 2000 from natchess for $299.99 plus shipping. Local shop had 550B for $325.00 with a 15% discount. Less moving parts, heavier construction and APS priming made up my mind.

I can load 1000 primers into the strips instantaneously (buy them that way) Actually can load 500 into the strips in around 5 minutes using the supplied tool. I have loaded 500 - .38 special, 750 - .45 LC, 1000 - .40 S&W and 500 - .357 sig. Have had about 1% quality problems that were my fault. Shell plate is self cleaning. Micrometer adjust powder measure has worked flawlessly. I am very happy with my choice. Probably would have never known about it without this forum. Thanks.

[El Rojo]

I mainly load .308 on my 550B. I also have loaded .40, .45, M1 Carbine, and .30-06.

Here is what I like about the Dillon. For .308 I like to process my brass first. I have a separate toolhead for just my size/depriming die and I also have on there the Dillon size trim die for the Dillon 1200 Case Trimmer. I put the size/deprime on station one, station two is blank, and then trim on station three. YOu would never imagine how quick depriming and trimming can go. Then you debur/chmafer on a manual trimmer and then throw the cases in the tumbler to get rid of all the brass shavings and lube.

Swtich toolheads and you have the powder charger on station two, seater on three, and crimp if you like on 4. Station one is empty and you just prime there.

The other great thing about the Dillon is that if you like to load really accurate .308 loads (I do for my Rem 700 as well as for my M1A), you can purchase the optional powder die and funnel for the AT 500. What this basically does is takes the spot on station 2 for your auto powder charger. I then start my reloading process and when I raise the platform, I stop there and measure out a new charge on my RCBS scale and then dump the powder into the funnel and right into the case. Lower the platform, seat the next primer, rotate, place bullet in cartridge, raise platform, repeat manual powder charge. This enables me to load about 100 super accurate loads in about an hour.

And then you can just use the regular system and it works great too.

The Dillon is so versitile and you will never be sad you spent he money on it. When I first went into reloading over a year ago, I went all out. I spent over $2000 for my Dillon and all of the neat little accessories (I am single and didn't have to fight the President [aka wife] to allocate funds). But man is it worth it. And like some other guys said, that was a life long investment.

[johnwill]

I have a real hard time with the concept of reloading those RCBS primer strips faster than just picking up the primers with the Dillon pickup tube. What am I missing, does the RCBS "tool" automagically make the primers jump into the plastic strip? As for 500 in five minutes, I'd love to see that action. Must be busier than a one-armed paper hanger!

[Airborne]

Greetings,

I bought a Pro 2000 last summer after much deliberating: the 550B is a great machine after all. Since I had loaded a few hundred rounds on a 550B before buying the RCBS, I knew what I was comparing the 2000 to, although I hadn't loaded on a 2000. (Nobody I knew had one yet.) So, always needing to be different, I went for the 2000. Here's what I think.

The RCBS Pro 2000 is a very robust machine. This I like.

The strip priming works well, as long as you remember to insert the first strip the right way. If you don't, you'll jam the priming pin through the strip between two primers and have to take the priming mechanism apart. Easy to do mind you, but still a pain.

Also, it has no "low primer" warning devise, so you have to remember to keep your eye on the strip. You can't "link" another strip to the one that's feeding until it's about half way used up or they won't stay linked together. Although I'm perfect in many ways, I do forget to watch the strips, as I'm usually more concerned with watching the powder level in the charged case, among other things. Practice does make perfect of course, but the low warning system on the Dillon is hard to beat.

Another unforeseen shortcoming is the need for two left hands. While the large work envelope provides more room to get things done, seeing what's going on, etc. as compared to the 550B, new cases and bullets are both inserted from the left side of the frame, requiring two actions with the same hand for each cycle. You can do a "reach around", but it's awkward. Does this mean you can load faster on a Dillon 550B? Probably.

I find the micrometer adjusted powder throw to be excellent. It's very accurate, stays on the press when you remove the tool head, and is easy to remove when you need to. The Dillon throws are also excellent, but more complicated with respect to their linkage and spring arrangements. However, because of the "authoritative" return to battery of the 2000's powder throw, the lightweight hopper cap likes to "pop" off on occasion and land on the floor. A little weight on the cap prevents this, but it's still annoying anyway.

And while I'm on the subject of annoying, the primer catcher could use some work. The concept is excellent: a metal tube with a screw top plastic jar at the bottom. Works great, until you get up, bump the jar with your leg, dislodge the cheesy metal cap from the flare at the end of the tube and knock it on the floor. A close fitting washer between the end on the tube flare and the cap has solved the problem, but the engineers at RCBS should have provided one in the first place. The jar rides right in front of my knee where hitting it is inevitable, and I know my knees are roughly in the same place as those of most reloading press engineers. Go figure.

Caliber conversion, once the tool heads are set up, is a breeze. Unless you have a separate powder throw for each tool head with a Dillon, (a lot of people do) the RCBS will beat it every time. How often people change calibers is a different story of course, but it is faster for me, powder throw or not, with the Pro 2000.

Another major plus with the 2000 over the Dillon is the case retention springs. You can remove a case from any station by just sliding it out of the shell plate. No pin to remove with a pair of tweezers, drop on the floor, or forget to put back in, cycle the press, and mash a case against a die face because the case slid out of the shell plate. Yes, I'm speaking from experience. I've done it on a Dillon but not the 2000. Whatever works for me, right?

So anyway, for better or for worse, that’s my experience. Despite how it may sound, I'm actually very fond of the RCBS Pro 2000 progressive. It's a fine machine, has loaded many thousands of rounds of really first rate hand loads, and I'm sure will continue to serve my needs well for years to come.

I won't claim that the 2000 is "better" than the Dillon 550B, only different. You can't go wrong with either one in my opinion, but if you are thinking of buying one or the other, locate someone who has one and try both before you buy if possible. Ultimately, it is YOU who will have to live with your choice once you plunk your money down!

Best Regards,

SM

...by the way, I have no experience with the lock-n-load machine, so I will add that if you get the chance to check one of those out, by all means do so before you buy. Regards.

[linngl]

500 in 5 minutes with small pistol primers can be accomplished. Dump 200 primers into strip loading tool. Shake about 3 times to orient all primers. Put on lid to prevent primers from turning over. Lean back to move all primers to rear of tray. Depress handle half way down. Insert primer strip with another linked to it. Release handle. Lean loader forward, and primers will slide into empty slots. Lean device back to move excess primers away from loader. Depress handle firmly and 25 primers are loaded in strip. Let handle retract half way and push loaded strip out with next empty strip. Link up another. and repeat loading process. This occurs much faster than reading this. Repeat process with next 200 and then 100.

The fastest way, is open box of 40 pre-loaded strips of CCI primers remove tape and load. 1000 in 30 seconds. Same price for strips as tray loaded primers.

I've loaded the tubes and that would look like a turkey eating ants.