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Old January 24, 2001, 05:42 PM   #1
TheFederalistWeasel
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The Glock handgun has a documented history of going off unexpectedly wounding the person carrying it and sometimes even killing innocent bystanders. So why do private owners and US law enforcement love it so?

Handguns made by Glock Inc. have a nasty reputation for accidental firing and "over-firing." The gun has figured in many of the recent mass shootings in the US, giving the liberal media its much sought after anti-gun information and the company itself, along with 14 other gun manufacturers, is being sued by several US cities that hope to recoup losses from gun violence. Yet for such a troubled gun, it remains enormously popular among civilians and peace officers. The Glock 9mm and .40- and .45-caliber pistols are the guns of choice among America's law enforcement agencies; 65 percent of US law enforcement officers have Glocks in their holsters. That is by design: The company's CEO told reporter for the US News and World Report in 1995 that targeting US police first was part of an orchestrated plan to gradually move into the civilian market. The Violence Policy Center has called Glock's marketing to US police "hyperagressive" and "excessive," especially because of the dubious trade-in deals the company offers: Cops can often trade in their old sidearms and any guns they've seized from criminals in exchange for new Glocks. Glock, in turn, sells the trade-ins on the civilian market.

In 1988, the FBI predicted that the Glock's sensitive trigger and lack of external safeties would "inevitably ... lead to an unintentional shot at the worst moment." Indeed, 11 years later, the Washington DC Police Department alone had had 120 accidental firings, 19 officers had wounded themselves or others with Glocks, and the district had paid $1.4 million in damages from resulting lawsuits related to Glock accidents. In one case, an officer shot and killed an unarmed teen at a DC roadblock. Another officer accidentally shot and killed an unarmed motorist during a routine traffic stop. One DC cop accidentally shot his own roommate.

The Louisville, Ky. Police Department adopted the Glock just last year. Within six months, five Louisville police guns fired accidentally. One bullet hit a truck. Another officer's gun fired while he was leaning over to tie his shoelaces inside the police station and the even was clearly captured on a surveillance camera and used by the officer in court. After the third misfire, Louisville police rushed to defend their new Glocks, declaring the gun not guilty in the third incident -- the officer's gun went off accidentally as he was attacked by a man who had fled a routine traffic stop. Rather than bagging the gun, the department implemented new training in gun safety. Several more accidents followed almost immediately, the fifth an errant bullet accidentally wounding an officer's son.

In New York City, where 70 percent of the police force uses Glocks, the problem is not so much accidental shootings (although eight officers have accidentally wounded themselves), but overkill. According to a study by the FBI, New York City police officers armed with Glocks fired an average of 4.8 rounds in gunfights while those with revolvers fired 2.4 in 1994. Even after 100 bullets were fired in stopping a robbery in the Bronx in 1995, New York City police officials briefly investigated "overfiring" of the Glock but decided to keep it anyway.

Even the FBI, despite its earlier dark forecasts on the Glock, adopted it as a standard-issue pistol in 1998. The Media confronted the agency about the 1988 report panning the Glock. In response, FBI Firearms Training Unit Chief Wade Jackson, Jr. (from whose division the 1988 report originated) wrote in impeccable bureaucratese: "What may have been mentioned at one point in time, given a lapse of more than 10 years, may no longer be accurate in statements or conclusions drawn which are not supported by empirical facts as exist presently."
He continued, "The Glock pistol, in the FBI's experience, has demonstrated safe and effective performance when accompanied by proper training, correct usage, care, and maintenance habits."
While police departments hasten to defend the gun after every misspent bullet, Josh Horowitz of the Firearms Litigation Clearinghouse says the Glock has been the subject of more lawsuits for accidental deaths than any other gun he's tracked in the past 10 years.
Horowitz cites the absence of an external safety, the gun's "light and short trigger pull" and the fact that it will fire even with the magazine removed as the combination that makes the Glock an unnecessarily hazardous gun.
"The Glock is always on," says Horowitz, referring to the absence of an external safety. "It increases the already great risk that someone is going to be injured when there's a gun around."

So why the civilian and police loyalty to such a seemingly flawed, unpredictable, and embattled sidearm?





The results have been unfortunate, according to police reports and internal department records examined by The Washington Post.
In the 10 years since D.C. police adopted the Glock 9mm to combat the growing firepower of drug dealers, there have been more than 120 accidental discharges of the handgun. Police officers have killed at least one citizen they didn't intend to kill and have wounded at least nine citizens they didn't intend to wound. Nineteen officers have shot themselves or other officers accidentally. At least eight victims or surviving relatives have sued the District alleging injuries from accidental discharges.

In an extraordinary sequence over the last six months, the District has settled three lawsuits for more than $1.4 million. The District admitted no wrongdoing in the suits, but the cases highlight the chronic neglect of Glock training by the D.C. police.

Last month, the District paid $250,000 to settle a case brought by the family of an unarmed teenager shot and killed at a traffic roadblock in 1996. The family's attorney argued that the officer's gun had discharged accidentally.

In August, the District paid $375,000 to settle another case in which a D.C. officer accidentally shot and killed an unarmed driver at a traffic stop in 1994.

In June, the District paid almost $800,000 to settle a case from 1994, when a D.C. officer accidentally shot his roommate.

The string of accidental shootings by D.C. officers came amid 10 years of warnings from firearm experts about the Glock's light trigger and propensity to fire an unintentional shot when handled incorrectly. Such a sensitive gun was designed for highly trained users.


D.C. police officials repeatedly studied the phenomenon of accidental discharges, invariably concluding that there was no fundamental problem with the Glock itself -- as long as users were properly and continuously trained. Officials chose not to modify the Glock trigger, as New York City police did in 1990, to require a more forceful tug to fire the gun.

But in 1994, D.C. police recorded more accidental discharges than the Chicago and Los Angeles forces combined, two far bigger departments, according to discharge records from the departments. Last year, the accident rate for D.C. police was 50 percent greater than that of Chicago and Los Angeles police, which issue firearms other than Glocks.

Former D.C. police chief Larry D. Soulsby told The Post recently that he had planned to have the department switch from the Glock to another pistol before his retirement last November. Safety, Soulsby said, was "absolutely" a major factor in his thinking! In the past, the police union had pressed for a change of service weapon, Soulsby and former union officials said.

The Glock semiautomatic is, by all accounts, a 21st-century gun. Made of steel and plastic, the Glock 17 model carried by D.C. police is lightweight but powerful, able to deliver 18 bullets in nine seconds. It is sturdy, requires little maintenance and is very easy to shoot.

Unlike many semiautomatics, the Glock has no external manual safety. The pistol carried by D.C. police uses a five- to six-pound trigger pull -- half the pull of most other semiautomatics for their first shot. The features allow a shooter to fire quickly in dire circumstances when getting off the first shot is critical. Glock's pride in its design and precision is reflected in the company's motto: "Glock Perfection."

The Glock's unique features made the gun attractive to D.C. police officials when slayings in the District soared in the late 1980s. The D.C. department liked the lack of an external manual safety, calling that "a paramount consideration" in selecting the Glock, according to the department's Firearms Training Manual. Officers accustomed to firing revolvers that lacked an external safety -- which included the entire D.C. force -- could more easily switch to the Glock than to a pistol that required them to learn how to disengage the safety before shooting, the department reasoned.
Department officials knew that diligent training would be crucial to ensure a safe transition from revolvers to semiautomatics.

In February 1988, the departmental committee studying the handgun issue noted that the revolver was safer "for the inexperienced shooter" and that "the accidental discharge potential is greater for the Glock semiautomatic." But the committee predicted that "proper, continuous training and clearly defined departmental policy" for the semiautomatic "should negate this factor."

In December 1988, the department made a surprise announcement that it was switching to the Glock. Police officials were so taken with the gun's merits that they got the District to approve an emergency procurement without competing bids. "Failure to procure these weapons on an emergency basis could result in needless injury to police officers and the public," city procurement official noted of the department's request.
The District paid just over $1 million for 4,300 Glocks.

The decision was immediately controversial. Dissenting voices were beginning to be heard about "Glock Perfection." Perhaps the most significant criticism came from the FBI. The FBI Academy's firearms training unit tested various semiautomatic handguns and in a 1988 report gave the Glock extremely low marks for safety. The report cited the weapon's "high potential for unintentional shots."

And most recently a similar report by the BATF said the Glock failed many safety tests during its evaluation of the handgun one being its unwanted ability to go off after being thrown; a test they called the Frisbee test.

Unintentional shots would turn out to be a disquieting byproduct of Glock's unique design, according to many experts and to lawsuits filed against Glock in the last decade. Even though the Glock does not have an external manual safety, it heralds the existence of three “internal safeties” intended to prevent the gun from discharging if dropped or jostled.

A unique feature of the Glock is that a shooter disengages all three safeties at once by pulling the trigger.

*********************SO IS THIS REALLY A SAFETY?????????********************

Almost immediately after D.C. police adopted the Glock, unintentional discharges increased sharply.
The first accident occurred in February 1989 -- less than a month before the guns reached officers on the street. Officer Adam K. Schutz was helping to test and clean the first shipment of guns when he shot himself in the fingers.

Nine months later, the 2-year-old daughter of a D.C. police officer died after accidentally shooting herself in the head with her father's pistol in their Northwest Washington house.
By October 1989, the department had experienced 13 unintentional discharges, double the rate of 1988, the last year with revolvers, according to an internal police memo. Then Assistant Chief Max Krupo noted in the memo to the chief that such problems were to be expected in departments switching to semiautomatics. Krupo suggested that increasing the five-pound trigger pressure to eight pounds "would be satisfactory." But after studying the issue, Krupo decided that a five-pound pull was just as safe as an eight-pound one.

In the years after the department's 1990 report on Glock accidents, unintentional shootings continued to mount.
In October 1990, Officer Edward Wise fired accidentally and grazed a man's head during an undercover drug operation at a Southeast Washington housing complex, according to police and court documents. Wise said he had been struggling with the man, Barry Braxton, who was unarmed. Braxton sued and collected a $55,000 settlement from the District.


In May 1991, an officer accidentally shot Kenneth McSwain, 18, in the back when the officer slipped while serving a search warrant in Northeast Washington, court and police documents show. McSwain, who was unarmed and was not charged with any crime, collected a $42,000 settlement.

In August 1991, an officer accidentally shot Stephen Wills in the chest during a drug bust in Southeast Washington, according to court and police documents. Wills, who was unarmed and was not charged with any crime, collected a $40,000 settlement.

Four officers were wounded with their own guns in 1992. Over and over, officers fired unintentional rounds in the locker rooms at their district stations, or at home while cleaning or unloading their guns, according to police reports.
Officers are told during training to avoid such accidents by being attentive to the Glock's unique, simplified design.

In March 1993, Officer Lakisha Poge fired a round through her bed while unloading a Glock in her apartment, a police report states. The bullet went through the floor and hit Glowdean Catching in the apartment below. Catching, who was wounded in both legs has a suit pending against the District. Poge, who has left the department, could not be reached for comment.

"I submitted reports through channels and said, 'You have problems with this gun,' " former homicide branch chief William O. Ritchie, who chaired the department's Use of Service Weapon Review Board in 1993, said in an interview. "I talked to the union and said, 'There is a hazard here.' "

In January 1994, homicide detective Jeffrey Mayberry shot Officer James Dukes in the stomach at police headquarters. "I hear a loud bang and Dukes is slowly falling to the floor," Detective Joseph Fox, Mayberry's partner, said in a deposition. "Jeff jumps up and says, 'Dukes, I didn't mean to do it, I didn't mean to do it.' "

Four days after Dukes was shot, Officer Juan Martinez Jr. accidentally shot his roommate, Frederick Broomfield, in the groin while awaiting dinner in their apartment, according to police and court records.
Martinez was unloading his Glock in his bedroom when Broomfield came in and asked Martinez how he wanted his chicken cooked. The gun abruptly went off.

Broomfield, who nearly bled to death after the bullet pierced an artery in his groin, sued the District and Glock Inc. His attorneys compiled a voluminous case in D.C. Superior Court, marshaling gun experts who gave statements about the alleged dangers of the Glock and the deficiencies of the District's training.
In June, the District settled the case by paying Broomfield $797,500. Glock also settled, but a lawyer for Glock declined to disclose the amount. In court papers, Glock denied that its gun was dangerous or defective.

By 1997, the safety issue had turned some members of the D.C. police union against the Glock, according to Robertson, the former union official. Several officials wanted to switch to the Sig Sauer, a more expensive gun with a heavier trigger pull.

Currently many police departments across the US are switching from the Glock too much safer handguns such as the Sig Sauer and the Heckler and Koch citing the rise in accidental discharges. But the Glocks have several other problems that could be classified as safety issues.

The gun exhibits a tendency to jam if not properly held; a phenomenon Glock calls “Limp Wristing”. This is somewhat of a common occurrence with the Glock handgun but one, which is rarely if ever seen with other handguns.
Most jams occur when a short round is encountered or some internal component fails, but the Glock exhibits this tendency at random and it will vary from shooter to shooter a very uncomfortable dilemma to have if you use your firearm for self-defense or duty.

Another problem with the Glock had to do with its failing chambers when used with high pressure ammunition, ammo carried by most police while on duty and favored by civilians for self defense. This problem has occurred mainly in a .40 caliber version of the Glock, but nonetheless must still be considered in the equation as we evaluate the safety of this handgun.

All in all the Glock handgun has the most documented cases of accidental discharge and safety related failures of any handgun currently in law enforcement use to date. This, Glock admits does not include those accidental discharges by private owners that go unreported and failures of key components. Some weapons designers summation of the handgun is that it is very dangerous for all shooters, from the highly trained police officer in a tense situation to the ill trained home owner awaken at 3:00AM by the sound of an intruder.

In short the deficiency of a real safety, second-rate quality and the inherent design flaws of the gun make this a poor choice for anyone looking to purchase a handgun.

I will report further on my crusade to discredit the myth of the “Glock Perfection” as I gather and sift through the reams of text available about the defects of this gun.


TFW
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Old January 24, 2001, 06:09 PM   #2
WalterGAII
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Too bad you had to waste so much band width to display such blatant ignorance.
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Old January 24, 2001, 06:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
In 1988, the FBI predicted that the Glock's sensitive trigger and lack of external safeties would "inevitably ... lead to an unintentional shot at the worst moment."
Which is why the FBI adopted the Glock 22 and 23 as official duty issue sidearms in the 1990s, right?

Looks like a nice serving of tasty crow to me.
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Old January 24, 2001, 06:19 PM   #4
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WHAT?!

I'm not goin' to say you are full of it, because you could be right. But it would be one of the biggest secrets in the gun idustry! I've never heard of Glocks "going off" on their own. If they did, they wouldn't be so popular and there would definitely be some kind of recall or safety notice put out by the factory.

I've seen several references to alot of the same departments you mentioned but it was due to officer negligence and not watching where they put their finger while handling the Glock. It doesn't take a genius to handle one of these, they are just like revolvers! Just shaped different!
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Old January 24, 2001, 06:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
All in all the Glock handgun has the most documented cases of accidental discharge and safety related failures of any handgun currently in law enforcement use to date.
General Motors products are involved in more vehicle accidents than the products of any other auto manufacturer. Discuss.

I've owned more Glocks than most people have all handguns together. I have put over 100k rounds through .40 cal Glocks alone, not to mention .45, .357SIG, and 10mm Auto. I have had to point them at people who meant me harm. None have blown up. None have ever fired save when the trigger was deliberately pulled.

"Glock Perfection" is an advertising slogan. It does smack of hyperbole; ad slogans frequently do. Don't let it get up your nose.
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Old January 24, 2001, 06:27 PM   #6
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Much of what you state has little meaning and is taken out of context.
I carry a Glock 22. I have done so for several years now. My back up is a Glock 27. I trust both guns totally. The 22 was issued to me; I bought the 27 out of pocket. I would not have done so had I had the slightest doubts about the weapon.
Ref: "Accidental Discharges". There is no such thing as an accidental discharge...just negligent discharges. Yes, there was one officers weapon that had some problems, causing Glock to issue an upgrade several years ago. Does that mean we should condemn the entire line of weapons. One of my coworkers had a true Accidental Discharge with his 1911 45 ACP, blowing a hole in our dispatch window several years ago(later traced to a defective part). Does that one incident mean we should condemn 1911's now?
The total number of bad Glock incidents is, in large part, a creation of the internet. The same incidents are repeated time and time again, on numerous boards, resurrected over and over again. I believe that distorts the true minimal number of such incidents. Given the total number of Glocks in service, you are bound to get a few incidents.
I don't know how they can claim the limp wristing problem is unique to Glocks. You can have a limp wristing problem with any semi auto when the weapon is held improperly so as to negate the recoil assisted functioning of the weapon.
The "number opf rounds fired by LEO's is in no way unique to Glock carrying agencies. The average number of rounds being fired has gone up EVERYWHERE, regardless of the weapon in question.
I believe that it is in large amount due to the amount of training the agency is willing to invest. With the advent of safe action and DAO pistols, some agencies transitioning to semi's may have scrimped on training, believing that the weapon is essentially a "revolver dressed up as an auto". You fight as you train, and we in LE are notorious for scrimping on in-service training. Training is almost the first thing cut during budget crunch times.
I think you sound like a disgruntled 1911 fan, myself.
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Old January 24, 2001, 06:28 PM   #7
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Something I'd be interested in hearing about is the number of discharges when no one is covering the trigger. Where can we get the details of incident where the Louisville officer was bending over to tie his shoelaces? What was the cause of the discharge?

Also, how do these statistics stand up to those of other makes of guns in widespread police/military use?

You've got my attention, but I'm not ready to sell my Glock yet.
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Old January 24, 2001, 06:34 PM   #8
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Misguided propaganda

Most likly these accidental discharge's are the operator pulling the trigger when they shouldn't have thier finger on the trigger. This is just a reporter just trying to scare the sheep.

Brad
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Old January 24, 2001, 06:34 PM   #9
One
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Are you off your medication?

Show me stats of depts. switching from glock to other manufacturers. I think that someone is just being a child. If you don't like the gun so be it. Why start a thread that shows your ignorance. By the way, the accidents that you cite are all TRAINING issues not the gun's fault. I have owned various Glocks for the past 6 years, and I have yet to experience an AD, the gun going off on its own, or this kaboom thing. I carry my Glock as a duty weapon and off-duty and there are three large depts. here that have carried them for well over a decade, and they have yet to experience any probs. If you skimp on training or put the gun in the hand of an unsafe individual them shame on you, not the gun.

Really sad

PS I used the directions that you included at the end of your post: TFW= Text For Wiping. So just print out this piece of work and use it for what it is meant.
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Old January 24, 2001, 06:35 PM   #10
neil pilling
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Glock perfection

Well weasel I hope that you have an open mind for a reply to your post. Except for the incidents you stated about the guns discharging while in a holter ( I would need to see the findings of the investigation conducted after the incident to make a statement about those discharges)

I would have to say that most of those misfires, accidental shootings were the fault of the person holding the weapon. Again I don't know the level of these officer's training or the fact that they may have been extretemely charged on adreneline during deadly force situation that they lost their fine motor skills and experienced an increase in muscle strength the whole while that they had their fingers on the trigger and the results where the discharge of their duty weapons.

Another thought is the fact that we all know someone who has their hearts in the right place but they are just not safe w/ firearms.

Now weasel you may have a field day w/ that last statement but these are the same people who should not have driver's licenses, own any sharp objects, or chew gum and walk at the same time. And yes, some of these people are hired as police officers.

I would have to say that most of the above incidents were the fault of the officers. But glock has identified faults with the design of their pistols and corrected them to the point that their pistols are the some of the safest on the market.

Now i have given you some possible reasons for the glock discharges you have listed. You seem to only want to blame the gun before you investigated any other possibilities. I'm sorry to say but that just shows a closed minded person who is unable to fathom anything outside of their personal belief even if they are shown the truth.

I did not want to go on about this about this subject for so long. But I felt that I had to.

In a nutshell weasel you are wrong to blame the glock pistol without more information about the above listed incidents.
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Old January 24, 2001, 06:40 PM   #11
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Well, after reading this, I decided to take my new G-27 and toss it down the stairs onto the hard concrete floor below.

Result: After 100 tosses, the gun refused to go off. Resale value, however, may be down somewhat.

</sarcasm>

What a bunch of hogwash. It would be darn near impossible for the firing pin to strike a bullet primer without having the trigger pulled back. I confess that I couldn't even read the whole article. Probably published by S&W who seems to have lost a ton of sales of late.

Tom


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Old January 24, 2001, 06:44 PM   #12
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Say What?
Unreal! What total Bull!
Have a nice day...do they treat you pretty good there at the farm...sounds like they must have doubled the dosage today!

[Edited by VonFatman on 01-24-2001 at 10:43 PM]
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Old January 24, 2001, 06:48 PM   #13
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Glocks do not go off unless the trigger is depressed. When someone is unintentionally shot with a Glock that simply means someone had their finger in the trigger when they had no intention of shooting. You might call this negligence or lack of gun safety, but I don't see how this is an accident. Pull the trigger, the Glock goes bang, that's by design.

Keep off the trigger until you're ready to shoot!

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Old January 24, 2001, 06:55 PM   #14
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I'm with you Weasel. The design is dangerous. I've got one, but I don't like the light trigger and lack of a safety that disengages the trigger. Glock will just keep going along though as long as they don't get hit with a really BIG settlement.. just like GM and Ford do with their dangerously designed products.. does Pinto or Explore ring a bell? How about exploding trucks?

Read this

http://communities.prodigy.net/sport...-gupgrade.html

Like glocks? Nothing wrong with that. Think Glock Inc won't scr*w you for a buck? LOL... They are like any other big business, in it for the money.

You're acting like a bunch of religious leaders shouting down anyone who raises a question about the "Holy Writ"

Good job FedWeasel

shiro
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Old January 24, 2001, 07:16 PM   #15
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Weasel- You don't believe everything you read-Do you? I am an avid Glock fan. Why? Because of Glock's excellent safety features while still allowing for quick self defense. Like bcgunner said- A Glock will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. End of story.
I live in Louisville,KY and have paid close attention to the Police depts. accidental firings. Yes it's true that the LPD rallied around their Glocks when they were getting bad publicity. This was because when the smoke cleared and all truths were known-In each case the officer had pulled his or her trigger. If you pull the trigger on a revolver, Do you think it will fire? Guess what? So will a Glock. Isn't that just the neatest! What will they think of next?

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Old January 24, 2001, 07:16 PM   #16
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Nothing more than FUD.

And it smells.

Troll.

TR
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Old January 24, 2001, 07:19 PM   #17
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I agree. Guns are real dangerous.

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Old January 24, 2001, 07:34 PM   #18
Greg Bell
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Some thoughts...

Guys,

Glocks are not as safe as most other serious handgun designs. The problem is that the standard trigger pull is light and the trigger travel is short. This is poor saftey engineering. The gun can be accidently set off with less pressure than other designs. It is not a coincidence that Glock insists on rigid holsters for their firearms.

Some argue "Keep your finger off the trigger" is all that is needed. Then why does Glock disapprove of 3.5LB triggers for carry? Perhaps they have fallen prey to the dreaded "victim mentality?" Or, more likely, they realize that "keep your finger off the trigger" isn't always enough.

Glocks are not like revolvers. Revolvers have 10-12 pound trigger weights. Glocks have roughly 5.5 pound trigger weights. Notice it takes twice as much effort to fire a revolver as a Glock.

The famous 3 safeties of the "safe action system" are almost totally irrelevant to this issue. What deactivates these three systems that supposedly make the gun's trigger less of an issue? Pulling the trigger is what deactivates these safeties. Only system 1, better known as "the trigger doo-hickey," in any way relates to this issue. Judging from this discussion it is difficult even for fans of the Glock to create scenarios where this safety is useful

Despite claims to the contrary, the Glock is an extremely poor choice for the novice. It requires far more attention to saftey than a SA or DA/SA. With training, these other designs are made safe by routines that become second nature. While "keeping your finger off the trigger" is good advice for any gun--it is not enough. No one would keep their SIG cocked and unlocked--not even if they planned to "keep their finger off the trigger."

Some argue that Glocks are just as safe as any other design because any gun can be accidently fired. This is a classic logical fallacy. Any car can explode if crashed. Nevertheless, car makers find it helpful not to mount gas tanks on bumpers. Perhaps not suprising is the fact that the Ford Pinto was one of the best selling cars of the 70s.


GHB

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Old January 24, 2001, 08:02 PM   #19
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It never occurred to me that a gun could actually hurt somebody until I read this post.

Does anybody know where I can buy a gun with a 50 lb trigger pull, a grip safety, a thumb safety, a PIN access number, a key, and a retinal scanner?

I would like one chambered in .45 Marshmallow. Thats supposed to be a really nasty round to be hit with, it leaves a big sticky spot on your shirt.

I know this post is foolish, but not as much as the first post in this thread.



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Old January 24, 2001, 08:08 PM   #20
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Why is it from the first reply on the "glockaphiles" responses have resorted to name calling, charactre assassination and "clintonista" tactics in general? Some the points the original poster made are pretty well documented including the DC PD's pathectic record with Glock, the FBI's initial condemnation of the Glock and their more recent "rethinking" (politically correcting?") their position, and Glock's greater than average propensity to kB! (a term coined for the Glock) even with factory ammunition.

Even when the subject is not particularly directed to Glock, it is not unusual for a "true'believer" to pop in to disparage and insult another handgun (e.g., the "Why I Don't Sig" thread in the General Handgunning forum when a Glockaphile (7th Fleet) popped in announced the Sig was a "POS" because he failed to properly maintain his P220, and it rusted).

In all my times on various forums, I have only one discussion/disagreement with a Glockaphile that remained civil.
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Old January 24, 2001, 08:14 PM   #21
AR-10
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Like it or not, Gregg Bell pretty much nailed it.
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Old January 24, 2001, 08:17 PM   #22
Matrixwolf
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If all those cops are having that much trouble with Glocks than maybe they are only capabale of handling a Maglight and possibly a baton. I'm not even sure about the baton as it requires more skill to handle safely than the Glock does.




[Edited by Matrixwolf on 01-24-2001 at 11:37 PM]
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Old January 24, 2001, 08:18 PM   #23
J. Parker
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Ya know, I started reading this thread with a serious look on my face but now I'm cracken' up. As some of you may or may not know, I'm not a huge Glock fan, I've owned three but never even got close to HURTING myself with one.J. Parker
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Old January 24, 2001, 08:21 PM   #24
WalterGAII
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It's not a matter of defending Glocks out of some kind of religious cult loyalty, but rather that those critical of Glocks' safety record are so obviously ignorant regarding firearms mechanics.

5.5# too light for a s.a. handgun trigger? Gimme a break! That's Ding Dong School mentality!! Youse guys is out to lunch.
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Old January 24, 2001, 08:23 PM   #25
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malarkey

pull trigger, bang. don't pull trigger, no bang. if a loaded glock makes you wet your pants, then put a heavier trigger on it. if you are too dumb to operate a glock safely, then you are too dumb too operate any handgun. and you probably ought to throw away your pocket knife too. not too mention the car keys and all kitchen utensils.
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