The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 26, 2002, 12:18 AM   #1
thequickad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 532
Enough of this P99 crap

If the Walther P99 is such a great gun, why did Walther have to lower their price in order to compete with the Glock? I had a P99 and it is just not as reliable or accurate or duarable the Glock. Glock rules
thequickad is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 12:50 AM   #2
shaynster
Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 15
Glocks have to be one of the most ugly guns Iv'e ever seen! Way over rated too.
shaynster is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 01:19 AM   #3
Carbon_15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2001
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 938
I have and adore both Glocks and P99's. They both have their places and are both wonderful guns. I havent had my P99 as long as I have had Glocks, but both have proven to be 100% reliable and very dependable. My P99 is somewhat more accurate than my Glocks (actualy my P99 is a tack driver) and even though I think Glocks are quite handsome in a rugged sort of way, the Walther is much sleaker and easier to conceal. That being said, The Glock is still my camping/fishing/hunting/"bugout" sidearm...but only because its in 10mm. I would feel well armed with a P99 at my side.

Neither "rule" nor "suck" they are both great guns.




{I think some of you have gotten the wrong impresion...please take note of the quotation marks. I think its silly too. What I was saying is that tehy really dont suck or rule, they are both have strong suits}
Attached Images
File Type: jpg p99_target.jpg (134.4 KB, 628 views)

Last edited by Carbon_15; January 28, 2002 at 02:06 AM.
Carbon_15 is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 01:23 AM   #4
RKCheung
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2001
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 170
"Enough of this P99 crap"?

Why in the world would Walther reduce the price of the P99? Must be because it is a POS right? That has to be it.

OR

Just MAYBE, it's to sell MORE guns and to make MORE money. Let's say it costs about $300 to manufacture and market the P99. If one P99 is sold for $600 then that's $300 profit. But if 3 were sold for $450, then that's $450 profit total.

The price reduction does not necessarily mean the P99 is of equal quality of Glocks either IMO. Many people buy the Glock over the Walther because it's in their price range. You lower the price of the P99 and more people will buy it. Just look at how many people are talking about it on this board alone in the last few days.

However, I think it's a terrible idea. This means I'm probably going to end up buying more P99's in the near future. My one 9mm military is getting lonely.
RKCheung is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 03:31 AM   #5
VVG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 645
>> If the Walther P99 is such a great gun, why did Walther have to lower their price in order to compete with the Glock? I had a P99 and it is just not as reliable or accurate or duarable the Glock. Glock rules

Please offer the detailed comparison. What's the difference in accuracy? How many rounds did you put through them to compare durability?

Whenever someone says "Glocks Rule" I always wonder what their wife must look like....
VVG is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 05:00 AM   #6
355sigfan
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2000
Posts: 1,388
Glocks are not preaty they are also not overated. They are simply the best guns going for serious duty of self defence use. Hence their domination of the LEO and civilian markets.
PAT
355sigfan is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 05:02 AM   #7
355sigfan
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2000
Posts: 1,388
I owned a P99 in 40 the slide would constantly lock back with rounds remaining in the magazine. Recoil was much sharper than a Glock 23. The trigger sucks. The only thing nice about the pistol is the grip. I sold mine to a Bond fanatic.
PAT
355sigfan is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 08:40 AM   #8
Tamara
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 16,002
Here's a hint:

Manufacturing costs between the P-99, USP, and Glock are all roughly equivalent. It ain't that expensive to squirt goop into a mold.

When the USP first debuted, it was priced less than $50 over the going rate for Glocks. With the exception of existing HK buffs, nobody bought them. Bump the price, and shazam! sales of this "new, high-end" pistol started to climb.

Unfortunately for Walther and Steyr, both late to the polymer gun game, this didn't leave much room for their products. Glock owns the market share around the $450-$500 mark, and HK has taken over the upscale $600+ portion of the plastic gun biz. They both (especially Glock) have market recognition outside the handgun hobbyist segment. Everyone who's ever watched the news, listened to rap music or sat in a movie theater knows what a Glock is, and every kid who's played Rainbow Six knows what an HK USP is. How many first-time handgun buyers have heard of a P-99 or an M40? The gun market over the last few years is littered with challengers to the 800-lb Austrian gorilla (think Sigma and FN FortyNine, here) that failed not necessarily because their product was inferior, but because they were priced to compete with the most formidable marketing juggernaut the handgun world has seen since Dirty Harry first brandished a Model 29.

Any bets that, in addition to lowering its' P-99 prices, Walther paid big money to make sure Bond, James Bond started toting a P-99?

Want to know why the introductory price of the HS2000 nee Springfield XD was so amazingly low?

Sometimes you have to try to buy market share at the expense of short term profits. Just ask that Austrian plastics mogul who sold his unknown pistols almost at a loss to fill police holsters and range rental counters across America, and now turns a tidy per-gun profit as a result.
__________________
MOLON LABE!
2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium.
The Arms Room: An Online Museum.
Tamara is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 11:38 AM   #9
agtman
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,374
"Enough of this P-99 crap."

"Glocks rule."

"Neither 'rule' nor 'suck' they are both great guns.


Hey, Tamara, I thought you put the final kabosh on this whole "TRIBES" thingy. No?

Okay, well, my working-class 2-cents says that HK USPs are overrated pretty-boy poser guns. Alternately, USPs also qualify as overpriced drool-toys for mall ninjas with SEAL-wannabe fantasies (like the ones who post HK P.R. ninja pics on TFL).
agtman is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 12:14 PM   #10
NMGlocker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2001
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 371
Quote:
If the Walther P99 is such a great gun, why did Walther have to lower their price in order to compete with the Glock? I had a P99 and it is just not as reliable or accurate or duarable the Glock. Glock rules
What an insightfull, well researched, intelligent comparison of two firearms. Have you ever thought of writing technical articles for gun magazines?
__________________
Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy"....until you can pick up a stick.
NMGlocker is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 12:18 PM   #11
Kilroy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 1998
Posts: 117
NM....seems to have the qualifications for it.

Kilroy...
...was here
Kilroy is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 03:44 PM   #12
P-99er
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2001
Posts: 102
Too simple and obvious. They are targeting the LEO market, and low budget buyers. They probably never would have imagined that cost would enter into the decision on gun purchases for departments. Or that some private owners would consider price above most. The P-99 is very popular now, even with the higher price.

When I chose my first P-99, I researched around, tried a few at the range, asked opinions from RO's etc. I made my decision based on what I liked and felt comfortable with. Yes I did consider Gluucks in the process. I just preferred the ergonomics and quality; dependablity and accuracy were just a huge plus.

Remember that Gluucks didn't take off as LEO issue until the price came down.

I own Gloocks and P-99's. I have enough Glocks (2) but I am getting every P-99 caliber and color. I like the Gloocks, but I love the Walthers. I almost regret spending the money on the Gloocks. They still shoot though.

It is obvious that Walther must be a threat to Glooks or you wouldn't have so much animousity toward them.

Confucious say: Sometimes it is better to be quiet and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
__________________
"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees"- William Jefferson Clinton 8-12-1993

Last edited by P-99er; January 26, 2002 at 04:13 PM.
P-99er is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 04:03 PM   #13
Whats-A-Glock?
Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2001
Posts: 27
Hey Quickad,

I can understand your pain. There is a board where opinions such as yours rule, and anyone who does not believe the Glock is the absolute best gun in the world is quickly labeled a "troll" and called for banishment.

It seems to work. There are some noteable "non-believers" that got banned or just ran off. You may be familar with the site, Glock Talk. They are hardcore Glock folks and don't allow any dissention. Well almost. At least you don't have to put up with as many "pro Walther" threads.

Check it out, you will probably like it. Thought you would like to know. Personally, I like TFL more, because of the variety of opinions and input, and quality of members.
Whats-A-Glock? is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 04:30 PM   #14
defox
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2001
Posts: 242
Did someone say that the Glock is more accurate than the Walther P99? Is that before you put in a BarSto barrel in the Glock or after.

If the person who said that have fired both pistols then they are not being honest.

The Walther is so much more accurate than the Glock that even a beginning handgunner would notice.. Don't take my word for it, their are technical facts to back that up!
defox is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 04:31 PM   #15
P99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2001
Location: Idaho
Posts: 350
I'm always shedding a tear whenever my Sheriff friend and I go out shooting and his issued Glock jams up. That's why I carry the Walther, because if I have to call on my Sheriff friend to save me I can give him my P99 to save me.

By the way my P99 will out shoot his Glock anyday.

Glocks are way over rated and they like to blow up too. I've seen three of them do it, so spare me the "its a myth" giberish.

Look for the P99 to be used by more and more police departments in the near future. Its starting and with Walther lowering the price, you'll see more.

P99
__________________
I like Walther's....'nuff said
P99 is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 04:43 PM   #16
Tamara
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 16,002
thequickad and P99: two sides of the same coin?


Wish I'd found a perfect pistol design after all these years; but alas, from the lowly Taurus 731UL to the mighty Springfield Professional, all mine are just good at what they're meant for. None of them "rule" and by testing and research before I purchase I've largely managed to avoid buying any that "suck".

__________________
MOLON LABE!
2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium.
The Arms Room: An Online Museum.
Tamara is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 04:50 PM   #17
P99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2001
Location: Idaho
Posts: 350
I've never said that the P99 is perfect. But I will never say a Glock is Perfect, no matter how hard they try and push that stupid slogan on me. If it's so perfect, why has the Glock changed so much over the years? I'd be willing to bet Glock puts adjustable back straps on their guns, just like the P99, with in 5 years. Heck, H&K is already doing it.

P99
__________________
I like Walther's....'nuff said
P99 is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 04:57 PM   #18
355sigfan
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2000
Posts: 1,388
I'm always shedding a tear whenever my Sheriff friend and I go out shooting and his issued Glock jams up. That's why I carry the Walther, because if I have to call on my Sheriff friend to save me I can give him my P99 to save me.

By the way my P99 will out shoot his Glock anyday.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Thats a good piece of fiction. I had both guns and the walther is now gone. It was unreliable.
PAT
355sigfan is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 04:57 PM   #19
P-99er
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2001
Posts: 102
I've never said that the P99 is perfect.

If not, as close to it as anything made. The "tweakables" make the gun.

I wonder if Walther considered getting an international patent on the grip backstraps, or if they feel imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

Even Gun Tests Magazine mentioned the P-99's superior accuracy.
__________________
"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees"- William Jefferson Clinton 8-12-1993
P-99er is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 04:59 PM   #20
355sigfan
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2000
Posts: 1,388
Look for the P99 to be used by more and more police departments in the near future. Its starting and with Walther lowering the price, you'll see more.


Where do you live pluto we all know how WELL the SW99 did with police departments. Its the same gun different name. I will keep my glock I am sure most other departments will too.
PAT
355sigfan is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 05:01 PM   #21
P99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2001
Location: Idaho
Posts: 350
355,

Obviously you don't believe me, and I don't care. But this has happened 3 times. Maybe it's just that Glock and maybe it was just that P99 that you saw. But to say a Glock is perfection is a bunch of crap.

P99
__________________
I like Walther's....'nuff said
P99 is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 05:01 PM   #22
Tamara
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 16,002
Quote:
I've never said that the P99 is perfect. But I will never say a Glock is Perfect, no matter how hard they try and push that stupid slogan on me.
It's just an ad slogan. This Bud really isn't for you, and Quality isn't really Job One at Ford, selling cars is. (...and about HK's "No Compromise" nonsense; why did the precision-machined P9S and P7Mx get superceded by the injection-molded USP? )

Quote:
If it's so perfect, why has the Glock changed so much over the years? I'd be willing to bet Glock puts adjustable back straps on their guns, just like the P99, with in 5 years. Heck, H&K is already doing it.
With the SIGpro and the P-99 demonstrating the possibilities of modular polymer grip frames, it's a wonder Glock hasn't followed suit already, especially considering that grip shape is the most-frequent complaint against the Austrian pistols.

Of course they've made changes; gun companies do that all the time. If the P-99 survives in the savagely competetive plastic pistol marketplace (which I hope they do; more gun choices are better gun choices) they'll make some changes over time, too. Replacing that cheesy, fragile plastic punch for drifting out the grip rollpins would be a nice start; if I had a dollar for every one of those I've seen broken, I believe I could buy a P-99.
__________________
MOLON LABE!
2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium.
The Arms Room: An Online Museum.
Tamara is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 05:03 PM   #23
P-99er
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2001
Posts: 102
we all know how WELL the SW99 did with police departments. Its the same gun

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. They are not the same gun. There are major differences in the two. I would not own one of the Smith 99's, no way
__________________
"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees"- William Jefferson Clinton 8-12-1993
P-99er is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 05:04 PM   #24
P99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2001
Location: Idaho
Posts: 350
The SW99 is a lot different. I will agree with you that it is a piece of crap. And that gun was redone to make it "politically Correct"

All I will say is sit back and watch. The P99 is being used by police forces in England, France and Germany. It is also in use with the Miami county Sheriff's department.

P99
__________________
I like Walther's....'nuff said
P99 is offline  
Old January 26, 2002, 05:05 PM   #25
Tamara
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 16,002
Quote:
Even Gun Tests Magazine mentioned the P-99's superior accuracy.
Although the P-99 is, IME, on average more accurate than a Glock, I'd be careful before taking Gun Tests' word on much of anything. Whoever said that that magazine should be called A Bunch Of Ordinary Joes Who Don't Usually Own Ransom Rests Or Chronographs Go Shootin' was pretty close to the mark.

(I'm pretty sure SIG did the modular grip thing first with the SIGpro. They were definitely first to the US market with it, although I'm not 100% which gun's gestation began first.)
__________________
MOLON LABE!
2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium.
The Arms Room: An Online Museum.
Tamara is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.11586 seconds with 8 queries