Resizing jacketed bullets, anything I should know?

Shadow9mm · June 25, 2023, 07:26 PM

So I have heard of people resizing jacketed bullets before. The basic process was to lubricate them and then run them through a sizing die most likely intended for lead bullets. seems simple enough.

Will this cause accuracy issues with rifle bullets? like cause them to be uneven or inconsistent?

Long story short I have about 450 hornady SST 123g which are .310. Seeing as I no longer have the rifle I bought them for, and no one was interested in buying them, I was considering simply sizing them down and making some light target/varmint loads with these to use them up but wasn't sure if I would just end up ruining them.

HiBC · June 25, 2023, 07:47 PM

I don't have a study or documentation or tests. Call it "seat of the pants" opinion.
Lead is pretty "dead" It does not spring back.

The copper jacket will have some springback. Maybe not a lot,but some.

I suspect you will swedge down the lead core more than the jacket.

We are only talking about sizing it down .001 or .002. I do not know if thats enough to bring up any issue.
But you may loosen the core.

Jim Watson · June 25, 2023, 07:59 PM

If you can seat a .310” bullet and it chamber freely without Clark’s “bullet pinch” it will size down real quick when fired.

tangolima · June 25, 2023, 08:30 PM

I'm afraid the investment on the sizing dies may outweigh the value of the bullets. If the price is right, someone will take them.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

**44 AMP** · June 26, 2023, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Will this cause accuracy issues with rifle bullets? like cause them to be uneven or inconsistent?

It can. Not saying it will, but it can. You are squeezing both the jacket and the bullet core and there is a difference in the "springback" of the different metals.

Worse case is the jacket "springback" leaves the core loose in the jacket.That may not be something you can feel but something enough to change the bullets performance when fired,.

Rather than possibly screwing them up, just set those bullets aside and put out the word (local or even internet) they're for sale (or trade) and be patient. Someone will have a use for them, and you will both benefit more than you just shooting them up to get rid of them.

Additionally with safe loads, .310 Jacketed in a .308" bore is not likely to create dangerous pressures.

mehavey · June 26, 2023, 05:02 AM

No problem sizing Speer 180 HOTCORs from 358 to 356 at all for the LEGEND.
Just use sizing lube.

**Unclenick** · June 26, 2023, 08:44 AM

As 44_AMP said this is not enough oversize to cause pressure problems. The only issue with fatter-than-groove jacketed bullets is they can wind up a little off-center in the bore and not group as well as they could do from the right groove diameter bore. But if you size them down, the same thing is likely to occur. and the gun's throat is as good a sizing die for them as you can buy. If you want to help ease these bullets into the throat, you can put a little grease on a rag and just wipe the bullets with it so as to leave a thin film. If you want to get fancy, you can moly or hBN coat the bullets. But if you don't intend to be shooting moly or hBN through that bore later, I would settle for the wipe or for nothing so as not to have to resettle the bore.

Scorch · June 28, 2023, 07:13 PM

Years ago I had a European 9X57 rifle. I bought RWS bullets for it ONCE. Tremendously expensive for the type of shooting I was doing. Being a resourceful young man, I made a die to size the bullets from .358 to .356 and reloaded with them. A lot of work, but I thought those .002" would make a difference. Years later, I found out that all of the US ammo for 9X57 was loaded with .358" bullets and it would make zero difference to the gun. Point being .002" won't make a bit of difference. Just shoot 'em.

mehavey · June 28, 2023, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Just shoot 'em....

...as long as they'll chamber,
and the neck can open.

taylorce1 · June 30, 2023, 05:48 PM

My buddy does it for his .400 Whelen and .350 Legend. It opens up a lot more bullet options for both rifles. AFAIK he uses the Lee bullet size die on both.

Hammerhead · July 1, 2023, 06:02 PM

How many millions of .311” rounds of Russian 7.62 ammo went down the .308” barrels of Ruger’s Mini Thirty?

jetinteriorguy · July 2, 2023, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

How many millions of .311” rounds of Russian 7.62 ammo went down the .308” barrels of Ruger’s Mini Thirty?

I ran quite a few through mine. When I first used some Russian ammo in mine I was quite surprised at the increased recoil and muzzle blast. That’s how I found out about the difference between.308 vs .311.

mehavey · July 2, 2023, 07:46 AM

Quote:

...quite surprised at the increased recoil and muzzle blast.

...concomitant with increased chamber pressure.

While using the rifle's leade/rifling to do the swaging may work...
Take care that you aren't also jamming the neck shut at the same time.

RC20 · July 3, 2023, 09:18 PM

There was a contention that the Model of 1917 would shoot better with slightly larger bullets (aka your .310).

The average bore is slightly tighter than a 1903 though the odd 5 grove setup changes things a tad (and don't get me going on two grove 1903 Barrels!)

**Unclenick** · July 4, 2023, 07:33 PM

Military specs for Springfield and Garand barrels: 0.2985"-0.3015" bore and 0.3065"-0.3095" groove all firing bullet's whose tolerances allow diameter to be up to 0.309". I've read the British Enfield spec allowed bore tolerances to be as much as +/-0.003", but I've not had the opportunity to slug a selection of them for myself.

You can find a discussion about court records from a lawsuit over a case rupture at the Bisley ranges during a match that seriously injured the shooter. It involved a 0.308 bullet in a 0.3065" groove diameter Palma type barrel. However, the cause was traced to the throat being too short, so the bullet was jammed in the throat, which raises pressure more than a 0.0015" undersized bore will do. Palma shooter's ran Sierra 155's in 0.3065” groove barrels for a long time, and those measure nearly 0.3085 at the pressure ring. British long range shooter's have had Palma barrels made with as little as 0.3055" groove diameter for 0.308" bullet's.

Jim Watson · July 4, 2023, 07:49 PM

Once upon a time the Palma host would provide ammo. Shooters would have American barrels and tighter English barrels.

RC20 · July 5, 2023, 08:36 PM

Its an interesting aspect and I made the point poorly, if a 1917 barrel is a tad tighter then a 1903 barrel should allow .310.

As noted there is an adamant group that advocate the .310 bullets of the 1917.

I don't think they know what they are advocating though I think its a confirmation that you can safely and even effectively shoot oversize bullets.

While it digresses, I have often pondered about the millions of 1917s made with no heat treat issues and the issue with the 1903. Granted mfg of the 1903 was oddball by the standards of the time and quite backwards compared to modern or commercial mfgs that geared up for millions of the P-14 and P-17 aka 1917.

tangolima · July 6, 2023, 09:44 AM

Digressing even more. Springfield had been manufacturing smokeless center fired rifles, such as US krag, using the same eyeballing method of heat treat, possibly by the same pairs of eyeballs, well before 1903. We haven't heard of similar issues of those older rifles. Why just low-number 1903?

There are many theories. The eyeballs were blamed to cover something else. Look up this forum, and you will find interesting threads.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Jim Watson · July 6, 2023, 10:44 AM

The Krag shoots the superior rimmed cartridge and does not have unsupported case web hanging out in the breeze like the 1903. Also at lower pressure.

tangolima · July 6, 2023, 11:59 AM

Even shooting light cast bullet loads on a low-number 1903 is dangerous, as per the experts.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

HiBC · July 6, 2023, 04:01 PM

On heat treating early 1903's.
The legend I read told me it had to do with "New Management"

A new "Top Dog" showed up ,walked around, decided the windows were dingy.
He ordered the windows cleaned immediately.

That changed the ambient light, which wreaked havoc with the "calibrated eyeballs" of the Gentlemen watching the color of the steel in heat treat.
In the dark shop, it "looked right" at a lower temp. In the light shop,the temp was higher. Too hot!

Someone mentioned the P-17/P-14 as not having these problems. I'm not well informed about these. Memory(which may be wrong) tells me the P-14 was OK, but some of the P-17's were brittle. Eddystone comes to mind as the ones that may be brittle. Please do not consider that as fact. I suggest if you have a P-14/P-17 you are going to put your face behind and pull the trigger,do a little research. Many of them are good. Some series,not good.
I do not have a copy of "Hatchers Notebook" Its probaby been 40 years since I read it, As I recall it goes into this stuff.

HiBC · July 6, 2023, 04:37 PM

Quote:

The Krag shoots the superior rimmed cartridge and does not have unsupported case web hanging out in the breeze like the 1903. Also at lower pressure.

This is a friendly response.not an attack.

Seems like I heard Teddy Roosevelt and his Rough Riders with their 30-40 Krags ran into 7x57 Mausers on that San Juan Hill thing.
The Model what? 1898 ? Krag was replaced by the 1903 after 5 years. The 1903/ 1903A3 served into WW2. 40 + years. The M1Garand did have some advantages.

I have a Krag and I really like it. I think,its beautiful (in its own way) and the action is "slick". The 30-40 will work fine at least as far away as I can use iron sights with confidence. I won't scope my Krag. I think about that old steel and single locking lug.I just do not want a bolt blown through my cheekbone. So,I don't push for 2300,or 2400 fps. I throttle back.Its a fine cast bullet gun.

But The Springfield is pretty special, as is the 30-06. Cone breech/Unsupported case head? It works.It doesn't bother me. I like the cone breech M-70 Winchester,too.

Jim Watson · July 7, 2023, 10:32 AM

True, the Krag Jorgensen is a wonderful piece of design and manufacture but it was militarily obsolete the day it arrived in the USA. It might have been OK in Scandinavia before Mannlicher and Mauser packet loading and stripper clip loading got established, but Army Ordnance should have known better by 1892 and surely by 1898.

Heck, we could have had the home grown Remington Lee with box magazine readily adaptable to clip loading.

But my point was that we don't hear of demolished Krags like we do 1903s because of their design and ammo.

June 25, 2023, 07:26 PM	#1
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 4,014	Resizing jacketed bullets, anything I should know? So I have heard of people resizing jacketed bullets before. The basic process was to lubricate them and then run them through a sizing die most likely intended for lead bullets. seems simple enough. Will this cause accuracy issues with rifle bullets? like cause them to be uneven or inconsistent? Long story short I have about 450 hornady SST 123g which are .310. Seeing as I no longer have the rifle I bought them for, and no one was interested in buying them, I was considering simply sizing them down and making some light target/varmint loads with these to use them up but wasn't sure if I would just end up ruining them. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

June 26, 2023, 08:44 AM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,099	As 44_AMP said this is not enough oversize to cause pressure problems. The only issue with fatter-than-groove jacketed bullets is they can wind up a little off-center in the bore and not group as well as they could do from the right groove diameter bore. But if you size them down, the same thing is likely to occur. and the gun's throat is as good a sizing die for them as you can buy. If you want to help ease these bullets into the throat, you can put a little grease on a rag and just wipe the bullets with it so as to leave a thin film. If you want to get fancy, you can moly or hBN coat the bullets. But if you don't intend to be shooting moly or hBN through that bore later, I would settle for the wipe or for nothing so as not to have to resettle the bore. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 28, 2023, 07:13 PM	#8
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Years ago I had a European 9X57 rifle. I bought RWS bullets for it ONCE. Tremendously expensive for the type of shooting I was doing. Being a resourceful young man, I made a die to size the bullets from .358 to .356 and reloaded with them. A lot of work, but I thought those .002" would make a difference. Years later, I found out that all of the US ammo for 9X57 was loaded with .358" bullets and it would make zero difference to the gun. Point being .002" won't make a bit of difference. Just shoot 'em. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

June 30, 2023, 05:48 PM	#10
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,275	My buddy does it for his .400 Whelen and .350 Legend. It opens up a lot more bullet options for both rifles. AFAIK he uses the Lee bullet size die on both. __________________ NRA Life Member

July 3, 2023, 09:18 PM	#14
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	There was a contention that the Model of 1917 would shoot better with slightly larger bullets (aka your .310). The average bore is slightly tighter than a 1903 though the odd 5 grove setup changes things a tad (and don't get me going on two grove 1903 Barrels!) __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

June 25, 2023, 07:47 PM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,299	I don't have a study or documentation or tests. Call it "seat of the pants" opinion. Lead is pretty "dead" It does not spring back. The copper jacket will have some springback. Maybe not a lot,but some. I suspect you will swedge down the lead core more than the jacket. We are only talking about sizing it down .001 or .002. I do not know if thats enough to bring up any issue. But you may loosen the core.

June 25, 2023, 07:59 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,590	If you can seat a .310” bullet and it chamber freely without Clark’s “bullet pinch” it will size down real quick when fired.

June 25, 2023, 08:30 PM	#4
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,889	I'm afraid the investment on the sizing dies may outweigh the value of the bullets. If the price is right, someone will take them. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

June 26, 2023, 05:02 AM	#6
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,932	No problem sizing Speer 180 HOTCORs from 358 to 356 at all for the LEGEND. Just use sizing lube.

July 1, 2023, 06:02 PM	#11
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	How many millions of .311” rounds of Russian 7.62 ammo went down the .308” barrels of Ruger’s Mini Thirty?

July 4, 2023, 07:33 PM	#15
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,099	Military specs for Springfield and Garand barrels: 0.2985"-0.3015" bore and 0.3065"-0.3095" groove all firing bullet's whose tolerances allow diameter to be up to 0.309". I've read the British Enfield spec allowed bore tolerances to be as much as +/-0.003", but I've not had the opportunity to slug a selection of them for myself. You can find a discussion about court records from a lawsuit over a case rupture at the Bisley ranges during a match that seriously injured the shooter. It involved a 0.308 bullet in a 0.3065" groove diameter Palma type barrel. However, the cause was traced to the throat being too short, so the bullet was jammed in the throat, which raises pressure more than a 0.0015" undersized bore will do. Palma shooter's ran Sierra 155's in 0.3065” groove barrels for a long time, and those measure nearly 0.3085 at the pressure ring. British long range shooter's have had Palma barrels made with as little as 0.3055" groove diameter for 0.308" bullet's. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 4, 2023, 07:49 PM	#16
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,590	Once upon a time the Palma host would provide ammo. Shooters would have American barrels and tighter English barrels.

July 5, 2023, 08:36 PM	#17
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Its an interesting aspect and I made the point poorly, if a 1917 barrel is a tad tighter then a 1903 barrel should allow .310. As noted there is an adamant group that advocate the .310 bullets of the 1917. I don't think they know what they are advocating though I think its a confirmation that you can safely and even effectively shoot oversize bullets. While it digresses, I have often pondered about the millions of 1917s made with no heat treat issues and the issue with the 1903. Granted mfg of the 1903 was oddball by the standards of the time and quite backwards compared to modern or commercial mfgs that geared up for millions of the P-14 and P-17 aka 1917. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

July 6, 2023, 09:44 AM	#18
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,889	Digressing even more. Springfield had been manufacturing smokeless center fired rifles, such as US krag, using the same eyeballing method of heat treat, possibly by the same pairs of eyeballs, well before 1903. We haven't heard of similar issues of those older rifles. Why just low-number 1903? There are many theories. The eyeballs were blamed to cover something else. Look up this forum, and you will find interesting threads. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

July 6, 2023, 10:44 AM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,590	The Krag shoots the superior rimmed cartridge and does not have unsupported case web hanging out in the breeze like the 1903. Also at lower pressure.

July 6, 2023, 11:59 AM	#20
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,889	Even shooting light cast bullet loads on a low-number 1903 is dangerous, as per the experts. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

July 6, 2023, 04:01 PM	#21
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,299	On heat treating early 1903's. The legend I read told me it had to do with "New Management" A new "Top Dog" showed up ,walked around, decided the windows were dingy. He ordered the windows cleaned immediately. That changed the ambient light, which wreaked havoc with the "calibrated eyeballs" of the Gentlemen watching the color of the steel in heat treat. In the dark shop, it "looked right" at a lower temp. In the light shop,the temp was higher. Too hot! Someone mentioned the P-17/P-14 as not having these problems. I'm not well informed about these. Memory(which may be wrong) tells me the P-14 was OK, but some of the P-17's were brittle. Eddystone comes to mind as the ones that may be brittle. Please do not consider that as fact. I suggest if you have a P-14/P-17 you are going to put your face behind and pull the trigger,do a little research. Many of them are good. Some series,not good. I do not have a copy of "Hatchers Notebook" Its probaby been 40 years since I read it, As I recall it goes into this stuff.

July 7, 2023, 10:32 AM	#23
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,590	True, the Krag Jorgensen is a wonderful piece of design and manufacture but it was militarily obsolete the day it arrived in the USA. It might have been OK in Scandinavia before Mannlicher and Mauser packet loading and stripper clip loading got established, but Army Ordnance should have known better by 1892 and surely by 1898. Heck, we could have had the home grown Remington Lee with box magazine readily adaptable to clip loading. But my point was that we don't hear of demolished Krags like we do 1903s because of their design and ammo.