Had my first double charge mini kaboom today after 10k reloads... Lucky!

[AtlEng]

Hi Gents,
I used to post under shovel99 but that was attached to an old dead email address and found it easier to create a new handle.

I have been loading 4 pistol calibers and at least 4 rifle calibers since maybe 2009, and most of the 10k are 9mm and 38 special, 4-4.3 grains of Titegroup from a Lee Autodisk, 125 grain Berrys flatpoint 38, 115 grain round nose in the 9mm.

Saturday I was shooting the 38's in an S&W stainless model 66, 6 inch.
About the 15th round shot, 2nd in a cylinder of 6, big kaboom, bullet hits the paper about 5 inches low at 25 feet. Not "Oh Crap my hand hurts and my gun is blown up" Kaboom, but a "very stout recoil on that 32 ounce plus revolver."

This was a double charge: between 8 and 8.8 grains of Titegroup, 125 grain plated bullet. My Lee Modern Reloading manual states maximum Titegroup for 357, 125 grain plated is 7.5 grains.

I had almost chosen to shoot my Gen3 1975 manufacture Colt Detective Special in 38 Special instead of the 357 K frame M66. It would have likely blown up in my hand. I am a lucky camper.

The cylinder was locked up, and I was going to take it to a well known local gunsmith, but then thought "let's givethis a try." Some tapping on the back of the cylinder with a light mallet and punch allowed the cylinder to swing out. The shell was very tightly stuck, and the primer had a hole blown through it. No damage to the gun that I can tell. I secured the cylinder in a bench vise lined with rubber gunsmith plates and drove out the shell casing.

I am very lucky that I was shooting a stout gun when I made this mistake. I am usually, very, very careful when reloading. I don't listen to music, I don't have anyone there to distract me. I load on a Lee Classic turret, not progressive, so I can be especially attentive to the powder load.

But it happened. Just everyone be mindful that it is easy to double charge the especially the hot, small charge powders like TG. It literally gets lost in the 38 special casing that was designed for black powder.

Stay safe out there.

AtlEng/shovel99

[AL45]

I'm glad you and the gun are OK and thanks for the post. Everyone needs to be reminded that things like this can happen to anyone. I recall a post several years ago where a long time veteran reloader had accidentally used a fast burning pistol powder while reloading a rifle cartridge. His ending was less happy. It destroyed the rifle and injured his hand badly. I've been reloading for about 15 years and use a Lee single stage press. It is very slow, but I weigh the powder charge on avery 10th round and then visually check the powder level in every case with a flashlight before seating bullets. So far, I've never had a failure of any kind, but that doesn't mean it won't happen tomorrow. Again, glad your OK.

[RKG]

For what it might be worth, I have a technique that I follow religiously when loading “small” powder charges (where “small” means small enough that a double charge would not over fill the case and be obvious):

Pick up next primed round;

Tap it upside down on the bench top;

Hold it into the powder measure chute and throw a charge;

Put it into a loading block of charged cases.

The theory is that tapping the case upside down on the assures that the case is empty when I throw a charge.

In fact, this practice is so engrained that I follow it all the time, including situations where a single charge just about completely fills the case.

[AtlEng]

Thanks Gents.

I also typically weight every 10th.

This was probably the first time I have loaded in 2-3 years, so was admittedly a little rusty getting going again.

I load rifle on single stage at low volumes, but am not willing to give up the efficiency of the turret, so just must exercise that additional caution of looking at each powder throw.

AtlEng

[akinswi]

Originally Posted by AtlEng

Hi Gents,
I used to post under shovel99 but that was attached to an old dead email address and found it easier to create a new handle.

I have been loading 4 pistol calibers and at least 4 rifle calibers since maybe 2009, and most of the 10k are 9mm and 38 special, 4-4.3 grains of Titegroup from a Lee Autodisk, 125 grain Berrys flatpoint 38, 115 grain round nose in the 9mm.

Saturday I was shooting the 38's in an S&W stainless model 66, 6 inch.
About the 15th round shot, 2nd in a cylinder of 6, big kaboom, bullet hits the paper about 5 inches low at 25 feet. Not "Oh Crap my hand hurts and my gun is blown up" Kaboom, but a "very stout recoil on that 32 ounce plus revolver."

This was a double charge: between 8 and 8.8 grains of Titegroup, 125 grain plated bullet. My Lee Modern Reloading manual states maximum Titegroup for 357, 125 grain plated is 7.5 grains.

I had almost chosen to shoot my Gen3 1975 manufacture Colt Detective Special in 38 Special instead of the 357 K frame M66. It would have likely blown up in my hand. I am a lucky camper.

The cylinder was locked up, and I was going to take it to a well known local gunsmith, but then thought "let's givethis a try." Some tapping on the back of the cylinder with a light mallet and punch allowed the cylinder to swing out. The shell was very tightly stuck, and the primer had a hole blown through it. No damage to the gun that I can tell. I secured the cylinder in a bench vise lined with rubber gunsmith plates and drove out the shell casing.

I am very lucky that I was shooting a stout gun when I made this mistake. I am usually, very, very careful when reloading. I don't listen to music, I don't have anyone there to distract me. I load on a Lee Classic turret, not progressive, so I can be especially attentive to the powder load.

But it happened. Just everyone be mindful that it is easy to double charge the especially the hot, small charge powders like TG. It literally gets lost in the 38 special casing that was designed for black powder.

Stay safe out there.

AtlEng/shovel99

You may wanna write a letter thanking Smith an Wesson in engineering a gun that can withstand way overpressured reload…Even tho it was your mistake in double charging, that firearm saved you hand.

Thankyou smith and wesson

[44 AMP]

Congrats, you got off lucky.

Call S&W and arrange to send them the gun so they can check it for damage not easily visible to the naked eye (frame stretch, etc) They can also give you an estimate of how much of the guns service life you used up (if any).

Pay for it without whining . It was your mistake, so its your responsibility, after all.

I had a disasterous overpressure experience with a rifle load about 50 years ago. Rifle took some minor damage, and so did I, fortunately both repairable. GLASSES! always, ALWAYS ALWAYS!!!

Really makes an impression and gives one focus to ensure it NEVER happens again.

My SOP is batch production, cases charged go into the loading block and get inspected under a good light. Any case with higher or lower powder level gets redone.

I used a Lyman Spar-T turret press a long time ago, liked it well enough, until I seated a bullet with the expander die. (entirely my fault) and went back to the single stage press.

No idea if your overload would have actually blown up a .38, but I expect it would have damaged it even if the cylinder didn't let go completely.

Get S&W to check your gun, see if it needs repair, or if its been stressed to the point of no longer safe. Either is possible, S&W can tell you which it is.

[AtlEng]

Nice idea to send S&W thank you for making a great, stout gun.

Not a bad idea to send to S&W, although over the 10 years I have had this gun, it regularly only sees 4 grains/7.5 grains max or 53% of max, and has only seen 15 or 20 factory 357 loads.

We'll see how it handles the routine 38's and go from there.

Thanks!

AtlEng

[Nick_C_S]

cases charged go into the loading block and get inspected under a good light.

That's me ^.

Being able to inspect my charge levels is one reason why I don't load "full progressive," i.e. sizing, flairing, charging, seating, crimping, all in one process. I realize the charge level can be checked on a progressive, but that seems too easy for the occasional over-look to me. I need to see all my charge levels at once on a loading block.

I load (pistol) on progressive, but keep brass prep (finishing with a ss pin tumble), and the actual reloading in two distinct processes. In between, is hand priming and then hand charging on loading blocks - as mentioned.

In all my years of loading (39; progressive since 2015), all my ammo (250K-ish) has properly discharged - except one. One very annoying exception, where I failed to charge a case. It was TiteGroup too (pure coincidence). After that event, I reviewed my process, found the failure point (there was actually two), and made the correction.

Just as a side note, I've never understood the allure of a turret press. The only exception being that if the loader only makes small batches at a time - there, I can see the convenience of being able to quickly switch dies.

At any rate, we're all glad you're okay and hope you enjoy many rewarding and safe years of handloading, moving forward.

[44 AMP]

Turret presses come from the era before progressives existed. To me, the turret press has an advantage over the progressive, in that, you are only doing one thing at a time.

For me, that matters.

[Jim Watson]

I started progressive for .38 Special with the old CH Autochamp ca 1978 because I was too cheap to pay for a Star. Mistake.
I am at present loading pistol ammo on Dillons No 3 and 4. No zero or doubled loads yet.

[totaldla]

Originally Posted by AtlEng

But it happened. Just everyone be mindful that it is easy to double charge the especially the hot, small charge powders like TG. It literally gets lost in the 38 special casing that was designed for black powder.

Stay safe out there.

AtlEng/shovel99

I would state it as "it is easy to miss a double charge with the very dense, color of case soot, TiteGroup".

IMHO, the trick is to try to create a double-charge so that you know how it happens. Then I think you should consider what to change in your reloading approach.
Personally, I only use TiteGroup in an autoindexing progressive. But in general, I never use TiteGroup anymore - I use powders that fill the case better so that a double or squib is easy to spot.

[akinswi]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Turret presses come from the era before progressives existed. To me, the turret press has an advantage over the progressive, in that, you are only doing one thing at a time.

For me, that matters.

Thats why I love my Dillion RL500, you have to manually index. I load 1 rd at a time.. The Lee Auto Disk works fantastic on my Dillion, I found that loading 1 rd at time made it easier to visually inspect each case

[jetinteriorguy]

I don’t understand how you could double charge on the Lee Turret since it automatically advances to the next step when pumping the handle. Unless you’re eliminating the advancing rod and manually advancing the turret, which to me is the best way to make an inherently safe machine into one open to mistakes. Or you accidentally pumped the handle twice at the top of the ram and activated the powder drop twice, so basically a brain fart that can happen to anyone anytime. In my personal experience having blown up my S&W model 627 through an accidental double charge of Titegroup I’d suggest using a more bulky powder, I’ve switched to 700X and Clays for .38sp. In my case the blown up gun was a combination of constant issues with my Loadmaster, poor loading practice, and using Titegroup. Plus this was the first and last incident I’ve had in over 35 years and well over a 100,000 rounds loaded and shot.

[stagpanther]

I recall a post several years ago where a long time veteran reloader had accidentally used a fast burning pistol powder while reloading a rifle cartridge.

I did that once when grabbing AA #7 instead of RL#7 (one of the few/only instances where powders using the same numbers have radically different burn characteristics) for an AR cartridge--receiver, magazine, bolt and bolt carrier were destroyed but I was lucky and got away scott-free with no injuries. Doesn't take much to make a localized hand grenade detonating within inches of your face.

[Nick_C_S]

grabbing AA #7 instead of RL#7

This is why I leave the bottle of propellant being used prominently displayed on the load bench - staring at me while I load.

(Not scolding. Just sharing my process.)

[Nick_C_S]

That's why I love my Dillion RL500

Me too. Suits my loading style perfectly.

[44 AMP]

Thats why I love my Dillion RL500, you have to manually index. I load 1 rd at a time..

You are only competing one round at a time. You are doing multiple things at the same time, sizing, priming, powder charging and seating, (at a minimum) IF you are using the press as a full "progressive".

I ran a Dillion for a couple years, it had its quirks (what doesn't?) but once you learned how to work them, or work around them, it did pretty well, for pistol ammo. Not as well for rifle, and not at all well for large rifle rounds.

And, of course could not be used in full progressive mode loading anything where I was weighing each powder charge. Not bashing the equipment, it was well made and worked well for some things. The one constant with all my reloading is me, so I'm sure I was part of my issues with the progressive.

My wants changed, I sold the Dillon and went back to my single stage system that works equally well for me for everything I load, from .22 Hornet to .458 Win mag. Even the most "idiot proof" machines, aren't.

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by akinswi

Thats why I love my Dillion RL500, you have to manually index. I load 1 rd at a time.. The Lee Auto Disk works fantastic on my Dillion, I found that loading 1 rd at time made it easier to visually inspect each case

I just finally picked up a used 550 a couple years ago and it took me a while to get used to it. I’ve been loading on my Lee Turret for so many years and it automatically advancing that manually advancing the 550 took some getting used to. The biggest problem for me was brain farting and forgetting to put the bullet in and then dumping powder all over in the bin. Once I got into a good routine all was fine.

[Irish Lad]

Glad you didn't get hurt!
I load all my pistol rounds, 380,9mm,38spl,45acp and 45 colt on my LCT. I load a 100 rounds a session. I weigh the brass and bullets on my FA 750. I set aside any that are more than 1 gr off(rarely happens). Only takes a few minutes. I then weigh the completed round when done and check them with a Wilson gauge. Some folks say weighing is a waste of time. I would have caught the 4gr difference. It works for me and gives me peace of mind.

[PolarFBear]

For AltEng. By ALL MEANS have that firearm professionally inspected, preferably by Smith & Wesson. I had a double charge of W231 in a S&W model 640. I had loaded "practice" low charge rounds. It went bang, bang, BOOOOM. Way more than a full house .357 load.
The cylinder was tough to open and had to pound out the case. I could detect no damage. Prudence dictated a trip to S&W. $166 (? it's been a while) later good as new with a NEW cylinder. I keep that old cylinder on the reloading bench as a pen holder to remind me. The double charge occurred on a Dillon 550B. How??? I was in the loading process and was interrupted by a family member. Just enough of an interruption to distract me from rotating the case to the next station. I didn't catch it. The returned cylinder does reveal a extremely slight bulge on the affected charge hole. It can be seen under a florescent light as I rotate the cylinder in my hand. On the unaffected charge holes the light reflects as a straight line. On the bulged one the light will reflect a slight horizontal bend. Glad it was my S&W instead of the Rossi 38 I had planned on shooting.

[stagpanther]

I have multiple press set-ups I've collected over the years; but in my twilight KISS years I've found a precision single stage is the best way to go for me. I've settled on the Prazi Heavipress;

"There can be only one."

[RC20]

I am a pretty low use re-loader of pistol ammo so I never had to ponder the question of faster vs being able to see inside each case and how much powder was there (or if there was powder at all).

So, just a standard press and checking the content of each case in a 50 reload block is easy and reliable. I assume there are some errors in ammo mfg loading of cases and the occasional kaboom as well.

I am glad you are ok.

Trying to put it in perspective, I was driving downtown one time and out of an alley to my left a car came screaming out doing 60 mph across my front. If I had been a small fraction of a second fast I would have been hit and no airbags in those days, high chance of being killed and for sure if my door had been anywhere in the hit zone.

How to deal with and assess risk is a wide open subject and I know I have never been one to just stay at home to avoid all the perils of life.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by akinswi

We'll see how it handles the routine 38's and go from there.

I think that is a relatively dangerous idea. I have no idea what max pressure was, but typically these events bury the case not the breech face and at higher pressure crack the cylinder. After the event, you likely won’t see the crack. It is still not able to hold std pressure ammo firing…..an even smaller crack would lead you towards early fatigue failure. Probably worth sending to S&W to figure out where you are at.

[44 AMP]

Probably worth sending to S&W to figure out where you are at.

I don't see any "probably" about it. Send the gun to S&W, and have them do a complete check, and repair if possible. Pay what ever that costs. Don't cheap out, pay what it costs to find out, for certain you gun is still safe (or not).

Maybe its ok (and so the cost could be considered a waste of money) but MAYBE something has happened that sets up a future failure. Maybe something you or your local smith can't see, or check. S&W can.

Maybe the gun will run fine, but turn into a grenade at some future point, and maybe, if it does, you (or someone else) doesn't get off so lucky. Even if S&W charges what seems like a lot of money to fix it, or even if they deadline your gun, the cost of repair or replacement is less than the cost of fingers, or EYES, or other body parts which are not replaceable as easily as mere $.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy

I don’t understand how you could double charge on the Lee Turret since it automatically advances to the next step when pumping the handle.

Unless I missed something after reviewing this thread twice, the OP didn't tell us what turret press he used. IF it's a Lee, the newer 4-hole turret LEE presses come with auto-indexing, but the old 3-hole models didn't.