H110=ww296?

Robert Allison · February 17, 2005, 12:28 PM

I recently went into a shop to pick up a pound of H-110. They were out but the dealer, a very knowledgeable guy with whom I've been acquainted for about 20 years and have come to know and trust, told me that WW296 is the same stuff, that Hodgen simply buys it from Winchester and repackages it under their own name/number. I've used both powders at times in the past for heavy magnum handgun loads, and while I noted that they were pretty similar, it never occurred to me that they were the same exact powder. But a check of a couple of loading manuals leads me to think he could be correct, the data are nearly identical. Anyone here who knows for sure?

mtnbkr · February 17, 2005, 12:44 PM

That's what I've always heard as well. I've also heard that any load differences are due to lot to lot variations. I've never used 296 though. I'm still on the same 8lb can of H110 I bought over 5 years ago.

Chris

mete · February 17, 2005, 01:12 PM

Never make those assumptions . They may be similar but not the same , and have different burning rates .Use the Hodgen book and always start low.While Hodgen may buy surplus powders they may be powder that Winchester uses for their ammo which is not the same as Winchester sold for reloading.

Ackley Improved User · February 17, 2005, 01:40 PM

Mete is correct - never assume equivalence based on rumor. Start low and work-up your load using published data for the specific powder/manufacturer type. W296 and H110 will likely give similar results, as will N110 - but, this does not make them exactly the same powders.

Leftoverdj · February 17, 2005, 02:11 PM

WW 296 and H 110 are the same powder within normal lot to lot variations. It you can't get one, use the other. You sure don't wanna try one after you have been unsatisfied with the first and expect any different results.

I have no idea where you folks got the notion "you gotta follow the manual". Manuals are a GUIDE and only a guide. Sit down some time with several manuals side by side and see how much they differ. Five different labs can test the same powder and come up with five different sets of data for one cartridge.

In the case of WW 296/H 110, I do tend to follow the Winchester manual. It gives one load for a given bullet and there is enough slop both up and down to be able to count on that load being safe. That's a rare case.

Jeeper · February 17, 2005, 04:42 PM

According to a winchester rep I talked to a big match. They are the same powder. Evidentally Winchester makes both and the rep joked "we send Hodgdon the stuff that isnt as good". Since then I have only used 296. I dont know if it is true but I have less lot to lot variation with that than 110.

**Mal H** · February 17, 2005, 04:59 PM

It's no rumor. They are the same and are now manufactured by St. Marks Powder in FL. They used to be manufactured by Winchester (Olin), but has since been passed to several different manufacturers (Primex, etc.).

However, mete is still right. You should not start out substituting data for one while using the other powder - there can be an appreciable difference in lots. As always work up to a good load when any component is changed.

Robert Allison · February 17, 2005, 11:08 PM

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. I'm not one to be foolhardy or daring where it comes to reloading, especially in max or near maximum situations and always start low in any event. I was mostly just curious to know whether this was fact or urban legend.

Ackley Improved User · February 18, 2005, 12:32 PM

Leftoverdj makes a very good point - reloading manuals vary all over the map within a given caliber with reported different maximums, different pressures, different velocities - that is, given equivalent loads, etc. It makes one question how carefully the data are derived for these manuals. Nonetheless, I use the published loads as starting points and workup loads based on chronographed velocity, pressure signs, and estimated pressures as indicated by the NECO internal ballistics program. I've found the NECO program to be very accurate, and I highly recommend it to all reloaders, who can use a PC. The $150 is worth it! Also, one should reload only while using first-rate, modern name-brand rifles, pistols, and shotguns. I use only bolt-action rifles.

February 17, 2005, 12:28 PM	#1
Robert Allison Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: NW Montana Posts: 146	H110=ww296? I recently went into a shop to pick up a pound of H-110. They were out but the dealer, a very knowledgeable guy with whom I've been acquainted for about 20 years and have come to know and trust, told me that WW296 is the same stuff, that Hodgen simply buys it from Winchester and repackages it under their own name/number. I've used both powders at times in the past for heavy magnum handgun loads, and while I noted that they were pretty similar, it never occurred to me that they were the same exact powder. But a check of a couple of loading manuals leads me to think he could be correct, the data are nearly identical. Anyone here who knows for sure?

February 17, 2005, 04:42 PM	#6
Jeeper Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 776	According to a winchester rep I talked to a big match. They are the same powder. Evidentally Winchester makes both and the rep joked "we send Hodgdon the stuff that isnt as good". Since then I have only used 296. I dont know if it is true but I have less lot to lot variation with that than 110. __________________ Gun control theory - A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

February 18, 2005, 12:32 PM	#9
Ackley Improved User Member Join Date: January 31, 2005 Posts: 56	Manuals vary all over the map! Leftoverdj makes a very good point - reloading manuals vary all over the map within a given caliber with reported different maximums, different pressures, different velocities - that is, given equivalent loads, etc. It makes one question how carefully the data are derived for these manuals. Nonetheless, I use the published loads as starting points and workup loads based on chronographed velocity, pressure signs, and estimated pressures as indicated by the NECO internal ballistics program. I've found the NECO program to be very accurate, and I highly recommend it to all reloaders, who can use a PC. The $150 is worth it! Also, one should reload only while using first-rate, modern name-brand rifles, pistols, and shotguns. I use only bolt-action rifles.

February 17, 2005, 12:44 PM	#2
mtnbkr Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2000 Location: Manassas, Virginia Posts: 914	That's what I've always heard as well. I've also heard that any load differences are due to lot to lot variations. I've never used 296 though. I'm still on the same 8lb can of H110 I bought over 5 years ago. Chris

February 17, 2005, 01:12 PM	#3
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Never make those assumptions . They may be similar but not the same , and have different burning rates .Use the Hodgen book and always start low.While Hodgen may buy surplus powders they may be powder that Winchester uses for their ammo which is not the same as Winchester sold for reloading.

February 17, 2005, 01:40 PM	#4
Ackley Improved User Member Join Date: January 31, 2005 Posts: 56	Mete is correct - never assume equivalence based on rumor. Start low and work-up your load using published data for the specific powder/manufacturer type. W296 and H110 will likely give similar results, as will N110 - but, this does not make them exactly the same powders.

February 17, 2005, 02:11 PM	#5
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	WW 296 and H 110 are the same powder within normal lot to lot variations. It you can't get one, use the other. You sure don't wanna try one after you have been unsatisfied with the first and expect any different results. I have no idea where you folks got the notion "you gotta follow the manual". Manuals are a GUIDE and only a guide. Sit down some time with several manuals side by side and see how much they differ. Five different labs can test the same powder and come up with five different sets of data for one cartridge. In the case of WW 296/H 110, I do tend to follow the Winchester manual. It gives one load for a given bullet and there is enough slop both up and down to be able to count on that load being safe. That's a rare case.

February 17, 2005, 04:59 PM	#7
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	It's no rumor. They are the same and are now manufactured by St. Marks Powder in FL. They used to be manufactured by Winchester (Olin), but has since been passed to several different manufacturers (Primex, etc.). However, mete is still right. You should not start out substituting data for one while using the other powder - there can be an appreciable difference in lots. As always work up to a good load when any component is changed.

February 17, 2005, 11:08 PM	#8
Robert Allison Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: NW Montana Posts: 146	Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. I'm not one to be foolhardy or daring where it comes to reloading, especially in max or near maximum situations and always start low in any event. I was mostly just curious to know whether this was fact or urban legend.