neutralizing corrosive residue

pizzapaiute · February 18, 2009, 04:06 PM

What is the best substance to clean a rifle after firing corrosive Turkish 8mm
Ammo?

kraigwy · February 18, 2009, 04:12 PM

water

Vergeltung · February 18, 2009, 04:14 PM

I have heard soap and water. pref hot water. since it's so messy and winter time here in the NE USA, I am just doing a heavy version of a regular cleaning.

aeonrevolution · February 18, 2009, 04:19 PM

I've got a question regarding corrosion.

I have a huge chunk of Silica Gel in my gun case at all times.

Even if I'm not cleaning my rifles as well as I should the Silica should prevent any damage from corrosion. Correct?

HAWKIN · February 18, 2009, 04:50 PM

If Silica gel gets loose and touches the metal it will eat through it like few things on earth. Cased weapons are not suited for silica use as their is no air circulation and if it dusts out you will be heart broken!

Clean em up, use these and you are done for years.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/z-corr_bags.htm

http://www.polygunbag.com/gunbags.html

aeonrevolution · February 18, 2009, 04:52 PM

Errr yeah I didn't mean I just had a big lump of it sitting there

I have a box of the stuff specially made for gun cases.

Chris_B · February 18, 2009, 04:54 PM

I've been told Windex is good, because of the ammonia

BillCA · February 18, 2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

What is the best substance to clean a rifle after firing corrosive Turkish 8mm Ammo?

Hot water. Preferrably hot, soapy water, but plain water will do. If hot water isn't available, cold water works, but you need more water.

In the 40's, during WW-II, G.I.'s were taught to clean their rifles after each range session. This was to remove corrosive salts from the barrel & chamber. Water should be hot, but not boiling. Flush the barrel, muzzle down, by pouring the hot water through a funnel. A helmet full of water would be followed by up to 10 strokes with a brush, followed by more hot water. Then use a bore cleaner and lubricant as normal.

Hot water was recommended because it evaporated faster off the metal and there would be less chance of corrosion.

Quote:

Even if I'm not cleaning my rifles as well as I should the Silica should prevent any damage from corrosion. Correct?

No.

The corrosion is caused by corrosive salts formed as a byproduct of shooting corrosive ammo. These salts lodge in the barrel, especially in the grooves. They are microscopic and embed in rough spots in the metal. They will remain there and any moisture at all can cause corrosion. Water dissolve these salts (like table salt) and flushes them away.

Solution: Take a full U.S.G.I. canteen to the range and put it in the sun when you shoot corrosive ammo. When done shooting, use a funnel and pour the warm water down the barrel fast enough to fill the bore (you can put the muzzle on your toe so the bore fills up) then release the water from the barrel. Run one or two dry patches thru the bore to dry and lubricate well with gun oil. If you add soap to the water then (a) bring 2 quarts to flush out the soap and (b)mark the canteen that holds soapy water to avoid drinking from it!

pizzapaiute · February 18, 2009, 05:36 PM

Sounds pretty much like the procedure for black powder. Thanks to all.

lipadj46 · February 18, 2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

I've been told Windex is good, because of the ammonia

Funny this goes around and around. Windex brand cleaner does not have ammonia any longer in the formula and ammonia only helps to clean the grime from the powder residue.

Windex works well because of the major ingredient WATER to dissolve the corrosive salts. Also people like it because it evaporates faster due to the slight alcohol content. So long story short save yourself some money use hot water add some soap or ammonia to aid in removing grime if you want. If you want it to evaporate faster add 5-10% rubbing alcohol. And you can even add blue food coloring if you think it will help.

dm1333 · February 18, 2009, 07:18 PM

BillCa,

Why is boiling water not recommended? Besides the obvious "Crap, I burned my hand again!" Yes, I've stopped using boiling water for exactly that reason, I'm just curious if there is another reason for not using it.

lipadj46 · February 18, 2009, 07:21 PM

Boiling water would be the best thing to use because the hotter a solvent the more solute (corrosive salts) it can dissolve but yes it is more dangerous due to the "[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] I just poured boiling water all over my leg" factor.

Chris_B · February 18, 2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Funny this goes around and around. Windex brand cleaner does not have ammonia any longer in the formula and ammonia only helps to clean the grime from the powder residue.

Windex works well because of the major ingredient WATER. Also people like it because it evaporates faster due to the slight alcohol content. So long story short save yourself some money use hot water add some soap or ammonia to aid in removing grime if you want. If you want it to evaporate faster add 5-10% rubbing alcohol. And you can even add blue food coloring if you think it will help.

No more ammonia?!

Maybe that's why Windex streaks so bad nowadays!

Tidewater_Kid · February 18, 2009, 09:34 PM

The bottle I'm holding in my hand has ammonia in it. I was told that the ammonia helps remove the copper fouling, but it's the water that does the job. I keep a small bottle in my range bag and spray at the range. Then spray again when I get home and clean as normal.

TK

lipadj46 · February 18, 2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

The bottle I'm holding in my hand has ammonia in it. I was told that the ammonia helps remove the copper fouling, but it's the water that does the job. I keep a small bottle in my range bag and spray at the range. Then spray again when I get home and clean as normal.

It's not Windex then, maybe generic window cleaner (or maybe a real old bottle). Windex lists ingredients as:

Chemical
Isopropanol 1-5%
2-Butoxyethanol 0.5-1.5%
Ethylene glycol n-hexyl ether 0.1-1.0%
Water 90-95%

**Mike Irwin** · February 18, 2009, 09:58 PM

Ammonia is good because it helps remove any trace amounts of oil in the barrel that might hide corrosive fouling from being washed away by the water.

I THINK that if the ambient humidity falls below about 28% the potassium chloride won't be able to pull any moisture from the air. That's why a bowl of salt will quickly become a swimming pool in the summer, but it will stay nice and dry in the winter when the ambient humidity is a lot lower.

The old GI bore cleaner contained a LOT of water, plus it was very alkaline, which helped it remove any trace oil in the gun.

lipadj46 · February 18, 2009, 10:02 PM

That is why some recommend soapy water the soap helps cut the grease and wash away other non water soluble organics as well as anything else.

publius · February 18, 2009, 10:06 PM

I clean using very warm soapy water. fill a small bucket or pot with warm water and a healthy amount of dawn dish liquid. run a couple of patches of this down the bore. next take another wet patch and squirt a bunch of the dawn on it, run it down the barrel. work a bore brush down the bore 10 times. run 2 more water patches through & repeat proccess until desired results are achieved. When you have it where you want it run several patches down with clean water (not the soapy solution) then pour a small pot of boiling water down the bore, this will help all the water evaporate. Run dry patches torough till dry. dry all other metal parts and oil.

lipadj46 · February 18, 2009, 10:11 PM

Dish soap is good to use because it "cuts grease" like they say in the commercials.

vranasaurus · February 18, 2009, 10:35 PM

Soap and water

TheManHimself · February 18, 2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Sounds pretty much like the procedure for black powder. Thanks to all.

That's because the corrosive primer residue is very similar (though much less in volume) to black powder residue. Both leave hygroscopic salts in their residue, which then absorb moisture from the air and cause rusting. Also like black powder guns, you'll see the corrosion occur much faster in humid or temperate environments than arid desert conditions.

pizzapaiute · February 19, 2009, 12:48 AM

I know some dish soaps have acids in them (citric). It's not recommended for use on aluminum alloy like that found on an older British bike. A soap made to wash cars with might be safer for exposed metals. It's probably a good idea to flush well with water.

**Mike Irwin** · February 19, 2009, 10:27 AM

"It's not recommended for use on aluminum alloy like that found on an older British bike."

But Pledge is so gentle I'm soaking in it!

I wouldn't think that would be too much of a problem if you're not washing the frame of say a handgun that you've shot with corrosive ammo.

BillCA · February 20, 2009, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dm1333

Why is boiling water not recommended? Besides the obvious "Crap, I burned my hand again!" Yes, I've stopped using boiling water for exactly that reason, I'm just curious if there is another reason for not using it.

For two reasons - first you don't need water to be that hot (212°F) so it's a waste of heating fuel (about 180°F is fine) and second is that accidental contact can cause burns -- or worse from the drill instructor's view, it can cause you to jerk, drop the rifle

and then dump hot water all over the wood stock

which requires a tear down to prevent corrosion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Irwin

But Pledge is so gentle I'm soaking in it!

Yer slipping ol' buddy. Pledge is a furniture wax, not detergent.
You're thinking of Palmolive detergent -- the one "Madge" at the beauty parlor used to soak her client's nails in.

Yes, I'm a certifiable old phart!

**Mike Irwin** · February 20, 2009, 10:37 AM

Pledge, Palmolive...

Close enough for government work.

February 18, 2009, 04:06 PM	#1
pizzapaiute Member Join Date: February 4, 2009 Location: agoura hills CA Posts: 50	neutralizing corrosive residue What is the best substance to clean a rifle after firing corrosive Turkish 8mm Ammo?

February 18, 2009, 04:12 PM	#2
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	water __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

February 18, 2009, 04:14 PM	#3
Vergeltung Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Location: near NYC, USA Posts: 292	I have heard soap and water. pref hot water. since it's so messy and winter time here in the NE USA, I am just doing a heavy version of a regular cleaning. __________________ *Tuitio Fidei et Obsequium Pauperum*

February 18, 2009, 04:19 PM	#4
aeonrevolution Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2008 Location: St. Louis Posts: 150	I've got a question regarding corrosion. I have a huge chunk of Silica Gel in my gun case at all times. Even if I'm not cleaning my rifles as well as I should the Silica should prevent any damage from corrosion. Correct? __________________ My guitars go to 11.

February 18, 2009, 04:52 PM	#6
aeonrevolution Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2008 Location: St. Louis Posts: 150	Errr yeah I didn't mean I just had a big lump of it sitting there I have a box of the stuff specially made for gun cases. __________________ My guitars go to 11.

February 18, 2009, 04:50 PM	#5
HAWKIN Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Posts: 132	If Silica gel gets loose and touches the metal it will eat through it like few things on earth. Cased weapons are not suited for silica use as their is no air circulation and if it dusts out you will be heart broken! Clean em up, use these and you are done for years. http://www.chuckhawks.com/z-corr_bags.htm http://www.polygunbag.com/gunbags.html

February 18, 2009, 04:54 PM	#7
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	I've been told Windex is good, because of the ammonia

February 18, 2009, 05:36 PM	#9
pizzapaiute Member Join Date: February 4, 2009 Location: agoura hills CA Posts: 50	Sounds pretty much like the procedure for black powder. Thanks to all.

February 18, 2009, 07:18 PM	#11
dm1333 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2005 Posts: 401	BillCa, Why is boiling water not recommended? Besides the obvious "Crap, I burned my hand again!" Yes, I've stopped using boiling water for exactly that reason, I'm just curious if there is another reason for not using it.

February 18, 2009, 07:21 PM	#12
lipadj46 Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 494	Boiling water would be the best thing to use because the hotter a solvent the more solute (corrosive salts) it can dissolve but yes it is more dangerous due to the "[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] I just poured boiling water all over my leg" factor.

February 18, 2009, 09:34 PM	#14
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	The bottle I'm holding in my hand has ammonia in it. I was told that the ammonia helps remove the copper fouling, but it's the water that does the job. I keep a small bottle in my range bag and spray at the range. Then spray again when I get home and clean as normal. TK

February 18, 2009, 09:58 PM	#16
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Ammonia is good because it helps remove any trace amounts of oil in the barrel that might hide corrosive fouling from being washed away by the water. I THINK that if the ambient humidity falls below about 28% the potassium chloride won't be able to pull any moisture from the air. That's why a bowl of salt will quickly become a swimming pool in the summer, but it will stay nice and dry in the winter when the ambient humidity is a lot lower. The old GI bore cleaner contained a LOT of water, plus it was very alkaline, which helped it remove any trace oil in the gun.

February 18, 2009, 10:02 PM	#17
lipadj46 Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 494	That is why some recommend soapy water the soap helps cut the grease and wash away other non water soluble organics as well as anything else.

February 18, 2009, 10:06 PM	#18
publius Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Location: Mississippi/Texas Posts: 2,505	I clean using very warm soapy water. fill a small bucket or pot with warm water and a healthy amount of dawn dish liquid. run a couple of patches of this down the bore. next take another wet patch and squirt a bunch of the dawn on it, run it down the barrel. work a bore brush down the bore 10 times. run 2 more water patches through & repeat proccess until desired results are achieved. When you have it where you want it run several patches down with clean water (not the soapy solution) then pour a small pot of boiling water down the bore, this will help all the water evaporate. Run dry patches torough till dry. dry all other metal parts and oil. __________________ "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain

February 18, 2009, 10:11 PM	#19
lipadj46 Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 494	Dish soap is good to use because it "cuts grease" like they say in the commercials.

February 18, 2009, 10:35 PM	#20
vranasaurus Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,184	Soap and water

February 19, 2009, 12:48 AM	#22
pizzapaiute Member Join Date: February 4, 2009 Location: agoura hills CA Posts: 50	I know some dish soaps have acids in them (citric). It's not recommended for use on aluminum alloy like that found on an older British bike. A soap made to wash cars with might be safer for exposed metals. It's probably a good idea to flush well with water.

February 19, 2009, 10:27 AM	#23
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"It's not recommended for use on aluminum alloy like that found on an older British bike." But Pledge is so gentle I'm soaking in it! I wouldn't think that would be too much of a problem if you're not washing the frame of say a handgun that you've shot with corrosive ammo.

February 20, 2009, 10:37 AM	#25
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Pledge, Palmolive... Close enough for government work.