How to bring the worst on us...

[hogdogs]

http://www.wkrg.com/crime/article/de...ooting2/25590/

By Associated Press/Okaloosa Co. Sheriff's Office
.

BREAKING NEWS Two Okaloosa deputies shot at a gun club have died. Two Deputies Fatally Shot
Published: Sat, April 25, 2009 - 2:37 pm Last Updated: Sat, April 25, 2009 - 5:22 pm
4:47 p.m.
The Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office now confirms that the two deputies have died. Deputy Burt Lopez and Deputy Warren "Skip" York were fatally wounded while attempting to arrest a suspect involved in a domestic violence incident earlier Saturday morning. Sheriff's say that's when 28-year old Joshua Cartwright opened fire on the deputies at the Shoal River Gun Club. Cartwright was shot and killed by Walton County deputies following a pursuit.

4:16 p.m.

A suspect in the shooting of two Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office deputies is dead following a pursuit by Okaloosa and Walton County deputies. Deputies exchanged gun fire with the suspect after pursuing him into Walton County after he fled the scene of the shooting at the Shoal River Gun Club in Crestview.

The two Okaloosa County sheriff's deputies who were shot were airlifted to a hospital, but their conditions were not immediately known.
The shooting occurred around 1 p.m. Saturday, when the two deputies went to Shoal River Sporting Clays and Shooting Center, near Crestview, in response to a call, said Michele Nicholson, a sheriff's spokeswoman.
Authorities say the suspect shot and hit both deputies and took off towards neighboring Walton County, where he died.

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How in the heck can folks find more heinous methods to bring heat on us law abiding folks who love and cherish our 2A rights?
Not to mention that this is in a very rural, very conservative populace of redneck folks of the God fearin' tight family types...
Brent

[orchidhunter]

A domestic violence call has been alot of LEOs last call. orchidhunter

[kirkcdl]

At a Gun Club....That's not going to be good...

[vranasaurus]

A domestic violence call has been alot of LEOs last call. orchidhunter

Unfortunately, so true.

They just had a domestic call here in Louisville where an officer was shot with her own gun.

The issue in these situations isn't the gun it's the perpetrator, their emotional state, and their propensity to committ criminal acts because they are not thinking rationally that makes these situations so dangerous. The "if I can't have you, nobody will" mentality is prone to take lives gun or no gun.

[Hkmp5sd]

to bring heat on us law abiding folks who love and cherish our 2A rights?

I do not think that the Second Amendment was a concern of this individual.


I could also think of better places to attempt to arrest someone.

[kyle663]

i just can't believe to deputies would go to a gun club to arrest a violent person. you'd think they would wait to catch him after he put his firearms in the trunk or something.

[cslinger]

Prayers for the families and fallen.

That being said, am I to assume this shooting went down at the gun club? If so doesn't that seem like an awfully poor choice in terms of where you are going to arrest a potentially dangerous subject. I am not a LEO so I don't know jack but I just don't understand why that would be the place to serve a warrant/make an arrest.

[orchidhunter]

A run of bad luck for the Okaloosa County Sheriffs office, another Okaloosa County sheriff's deputy was shot and killed in August following a standoff with a man who had barricaded himself inside a home.

Okaloosa County Sheriff Charles Morris was suspended by Gov. Charlie Crist in February after he was arrested by FBI agents while on a gambling trip to Las Vegas.

Morris and his former office manager were indicted by a federal grand jury on Thursday on theft, money laundering and conspiracy charges. orchidhunter

[Bud Helms]

I lived in Crestview for nearly twenty years. Ray Wilson was Sheriff back then.

Sorry to hear of the loss of life. It's easy to quarterback this now, but I do wonder about trying to make an arrest at a firing range (unless immediate loss of life was thought to be imminent).

[luvsasmith]

It is kind of like asking a firefighter why they run in to a burning building while everyone else is running out. Is there danger involved? Of course.

Did they have reason to believe this individual was going to harm someone else at the Gun Club? Maybe.

Was he capable? I'd say by the fact that he was involved in a DV incident, yes.

Was he willing? See above.

Was he going to? Well, that may never be answered, thanks to 2 Deputies who thought enough of the people in that gun club to not let that question be answered by yes. They laid their lives down for others and that is what makes a hero. THANK YOU DEPUTIES.

[Double Naught Spy]

How in the heck can folks find more heinous methods to bring heat on us law abiding folks who love and cherish our 2A rights?

I do not think that the Second Amendment was a concern of this individual.

Right. Once he was committing a felony, 2A wasn't his primary concern and certainly not his concern for other people. You never hear of folks saying things like,

I started to shoot those people, but didn't because I was concerned that my fellow Americans would have their Second Amendment rights further encroached by my actions and I just could not shoulder that responsibility.

[Dingoboyx]

But the guy gave up his right as a sporting shooter and crossed over to being a criminal.... so IMO, this was just a criminal event unfortunately staged at a range.....

I can see the anti's playing this up, but all I can say is, criminals are everywhere, (even at our ranges) I think/hope average people will recognise this fact.

Condolences to the families of the deceased, brave men just doing their duty...

[hogdogs]

Yes there was no concern for others in his mind. That is one thing lacking in these sorry folks minds. I am still unsure if the call initiated there or if he went there after the DV event elsewhere.

Okaloosa County officials said the deputies were attempting to arrest Cartwright in connection with a domestic violence incident at his Fort Walton Beach home earlier in the morning.

It appears he went to the gun range after the DV call.
Brent

[Stuohn]

First of all my condolences go out to families of those fallen officers.

Now a hypothetical senario: If you were at the gun range/sportmens club and you witnessed two officers attempting to arrest someone. Ok now that person starts shooting and both officers go down. What do you do?

For the sake of this senario we will say this took place 10yds from you.

Please keep in mind that this is all the information you have. You know nothing about any crimes the person may or may not have committed.

[Dingoboyx]

I would hate to be in this position you describe.... If I witnessed a criminal open fire on cops doing their job, I would have a hard time not firing on the criminal :barf: I wouldn't like to, but if officers are being gunned down, I believe it would be justified.

We dont know the facts tho, if there was anyone there to assist the cops in this way, the range might have been deserted (no one there) the shooting may have occured on a range but not near the firing line (maybe near the front gate?

Hope I never get put in that situation... would be very distressing, to say the least.... What would you do, BTW?

[luvsasmith]

If a person uses deadly force in a situation when it wasn't called for, AKA attempted murder/murders someone, then I'd use deadly force. I assume whenever a cop is shot that the person shooting that cop is indeed a criminal.

[hogdogs]

YUP, I don't care if all I have is 7 1/2 in a 20 gauge, the BG is gonna be in a shoot out with me. My life be danged I can't simply hide and watch innocent folks or LEO's get the lead and not implement deadly force...
Brnet

[orchidhunter]

Stuohn, In your hypothetical senario, you assume that this was a just arrest, but that is not always the case in Okaloosa County, Florida. orchidhunter

[MedicineBow]

Not to mention that this is in a very rural, very conservative populace of redneck folks of the God fearin' tight family types...

Um, what does this have to do with anything?

Rural, conservative, "redneck," "God fearin`," types are just like everybody else, eh? Good, bad, indifferent. Smart and dumb. Virtuous and evil.

And they tag cops sometimes, too.

This isn't about some cartoon version of demographics. Nor the Second Amendment.

This is about the lives of those two poor officers...God rest their souls and comfort their families.

[Stuohn]

I would shoot. I could not standby and watch people being gunned down
(whether it be a range, mall, or anywhere) and not act. This is the reason I fully support that all law-abiding citizens should have the right to carry concealed.

Stuohn, In your hypothetical senario, you assume that this was a just arrest

No, I was just asking what people would do if they witnessed officers attempting to arrest someone and that person started shooting What would you do in that moment? (Assuming you knew nothing about why the officers were there).

[KLRANGL]

The "if I can't have you, nobody will" mentality is prone to take lives gun or no gun.

I thought this was a particularly important point...

Is it true that more cops get killed with blades than firearms? Its something I heard in passing, but could never find its source...

[TLeo]

Calls involving domestic violence are hated by LEOs because they can quickly turn into things like this. There is a lot of info not contained in that short article so it is very premature to be critical of the officers going to the gun club to arrest this scumball. As another poster said..we don't know what he was engaged in at the gun glub. He may well have been a danger to others there and they needed to go there but that info will probably come out later.

[FrankenMauser]

Um, what does this have to do with anything?

Rural, conservative, "redneck," "God fearin`," types are just like everybody else, eh? Good, bad, indifferent. Smart and dumb. Virtuous and evil.

And they tag cops sometimes, too.

Crestview may have been redneck central 10 years ago, but the explosion of expansion in the last 7 years turned it into more of an active duty military town. (Air Force first, Army second, Navy and Coast Guard last)

That being said, it still doesn't have much of anything to do with the incident.

I feel for the families of the officers. However, they may have been better off at the range. Certain parts of Fort Walton Beach are very unfriendly for LEOs (and non-minorities). Just getting out of their cars, to approach the individual, could have resulted in their deaths.

[hogdogs]

The shooter was from Ft.Walton Beach. The call was from his home and he was later found at the range. The range is a full 8 miles outside of town and 'round these parts a simple mile is what separates "city life" from "real life".
By my description of this region, I simply meant that in general these crimes are very rare as folks have to worry about the strife it will bring upon the kin folk. Unless yer a Rushing or Darby cuz everyone knows them names are loaded with nar do well types. City slickers from else where transplant to all rural places. I am not a local native but have a bit different outlook on life and such. I hold in too high a regard respect and honor to bring strife to others.
Brent

[Kleinzeit]

you assume that this was a just arrest, but that is not always the case in Okaloosa County, Florida. orchidhunter

Would you wait until you were sure it was a "just arrest" before you would act to save the lives of two men? Or before you would take forceful action against a man who had just murdered two people?