22 Comparison

shalimarjim · February 25, 2002, 09:44 PM

I'm in the market for a 22 for plinking and perhaps semi-competitive shooting among friends and in my club. Just about the time I make up my mind to get a P22----here come the articles that it hangs up on certain ammo. Then I decide on a Ruger and there will be a paragraph on bringing a hammer to the range with you when it jams.
I know that many of you folks have all the major brands(Ruger, Walther, S&W, Browning). Is there any consensus of which gun does not take a degree in physics to operate and takedown and shoots reasonably accurate?

Tropical Z · February 25, 2002, 10:36 PM

My FEG smc-22 is a simple .22 that is accurate and reliable.I have heard the horror stories about that dang Ruger though.Maybe you should wait for that awesome new Berretta!

mparris71 · February 25, 2002, 10:49 PM

What horror storys are you talking about? I had a ruger that Jamed alot untill ruger fix the problem with it. flawless now. Every time the MKII jamed it was simple to unjam no tools needed. Takeing it apart is as easy as any other gun I own!! the first two or three times was not fun but after I learned how, it was simple. degree in physics you say, it is simple as opening a pocket knife and a pull and a tug. I can take it down and put it back together in less than a min. without any tools. Buy the Mark II or the Buckmark you will be pleased.

Hal · February 26, 2002, 03:58 AM

Don't get scared off of the Rugers.

Both of my .22/45's take down and go back together in 30 seconds. All it takes is doing it 20 times to get used to it. Neither of them are pickey about ammo, and are accurate enough that I can hit a penny at 50 yards off hand within 50 shots,,,,,on a good day

. On great day, and with enough sleep the night before I can do it within 10 shots...least I could last summer.

The Mark II I own is a ittle pickey about ammo. It prefers 40 gr high velocity non hollow points. Some hollow points will hang up on the feed ramp. Solids are 100% reliable. Mine WILL NOT feed stingers reliably.

Buckmarks (see the Buckmark thread)-All of mine prefer high velocity ammo. Standard velocity usually results in stove pipes or jams. Nolo problemo as all of the have shown a preference for Remington Thunderbolts, which although filthy, are high velocity.

CA75b w/Kadet upper (See Mr. Camps comments on the .22 conversion thread) Available as both an upper conversion unit for a CZ75/CZ75b or as a dedicated .22. Very easy to take down, very high quality all steel unit. Very accurate. CZ sells a Champion trigger assembly for the 75b that should make the Kadet outstanding. The Champion CZ I handeled at a local dealer had a very crisp trigger that broke around 1 1/2 pounds w/ zero creep. Possibly the sleeper of all .22s on the market right now. If you own a 75b, the Kadet runs about $250.00. The Champion trigger group is around $35.00 IIRC. A dedicated Kadet shoulr run around $400.00.

S&W 22s/22a. Outstanding accuracy. Far above the Rugers. Mine with a scoped 7 1/2" barrel has shot dime sized 50 shot groups at 25 yards from a rest. On a really good day a couple years ago, I managed a dime sized 5 shot group at 50 yards from a rest.( everything was going right that day and I don't know if I could duplicate that,,,point is the gun can and has delivered that) The main drawback to the 22s/22a is they aren't built for the long run. Mine has shown considerable wear on the slide in a relativly low (1-2K) rounds. Takedown is fairly simple. The nylon slide buffer is only good for 100 or 200 or so rounds, then needs replaced. my recommendation is to avoid them unless you have a few other .22's and want one super accurate gun. For a one and only .22 semi,,,forget it. They ain't made for the long haul. I bought mine as more of a novelty item, and added a set of three different barrels. 5 1/2 inch Bull barrel, 7 1/2 inch Target barrel and the 5 1/2 inch target barrel it came with. One barrel has open sights, one has a scope, and the third has a red dot. Hey, what the hey, it looks impressive in a pistol case.

S&W Model 41. Considerd by most to be the Mercedes of .22's. I don't care for the funky grips myself, so I haven't bought one yet. Can't comment on take down. Raves far outnumber bad or even so-so comments about the 41. I'll let others sing the praise of the 41 for the time being. Eventually I get one I suppose,,,when the right used one comes along at te right time. So far I've passed on 2 of them,,,used but unfired for under $600.00 ( I know, I know,,and yes I do kick myself for it, but there were mitigating circumstances in both cases,,,,such as a better deal on something I wanted more)

High Standard- older ones ARE out there. Some are still reasonable as far as price goes. Arguably the best .22 semi auto ever made. (Some will say the Colt Woodsman is the best ever.) I've seen more High Standards shoot true 1 hole groups than anything else though, so I have to go with the HS as best ever. Triggers that are measured in ounces rather than pounds tend to do things like that I guess.

Bottom line,,,The Ruger slabside should fit what you want for plinker/semi comp unless you can luck into a 41 or a High Standard for a good price. Mine runs right up there with a Trailside (actually, better than the Trailside) for accuracy, based on the sample Target supplied with the Trailside. Buckmarks are really decent guns also. Matter of fact, it's lot harder to find a bad .22 than it is to find a good one.

bowhnter · February 26, 2002, 05:02 PM

I love my Baikal IZH-35M. See it here http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/hguns/izh35m/ They can be had for aaaround $400. I shoot 50' indoor slow-fire bullseye with it. After I sighted it in I'm averaging 247 out of 300 after 8 weeks. It was kind of picky about what you feed it, as most .22's are. I tried many brands and settled w/ Federal GM Target. I can't say enough about this gun. I'm biased. I checked out almost all of the target model .22's. I skipped the HIGH end pistols. 5 way adj. trigger, etc.... This was the best package for me.

2 guys at the club have Ruger's. FWIW, They also have feed & jamming problems. Another has a S&W m41. Very nice piece.

Swamp Yankee · February 26, 2002, 06:00 PM

Have 2 Buckmarks, one 5.5 std., the other a 5.5 Silhouette model. Both are great plinkers, would not be afraid to compete with the Silhouette if I could shoot it to its capability.
The Ruger is a fine pistol as well. I do not care for the grip angle, but that's my subjective opinion. In terms of reliability and accuracy the Ruger is a good choice.
Either will serve you well.
Take Care

makarov · February 27, 2002, 12:52 AM

I own the Ruger KMKGC-678 (the Govt. Slabside model) it has never given me a hint of trouble and is very accurate. I recently bought a used Browning Medalist and now I know the difference between a nice trigger and a GREAT trigger. The Browning does stovepipe once in a while, but man that old gun can shoot!

http://blake.prohosting.com/~mirandab/medalist.jpg

http://blake.prohosting.com/~mirandab/ruger.jpg

Ruger has been polished. Makes it hard to take a picture.

You can't go wrong with the Ruger. I have been thinking about the IZH-35m for 2 years now. Considered it at the time I bought the Ruger, but wanted a "bulletproof" gun. The Ruger will outlast you...

The IZH is a great gun if you are into competition shooting. I'm not, but still I'm drawn to the gun... Think I might have to get one. My local shop has one in the case for $420 - could probably talk him down a little since he first heard about them from me and has since sold quite a few of them. People really like them. Too bad we don't import the CZ-122.

February 25, 2002, 09:44 PM	#1
shalimarjim Junior Member Join Date: February 23, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 4	22 Comparison I'm in the market for a 22 for plinking and perhaps semi-competitive shooting among friends and in my club. Just about the time I make up my mind to get a P22----here come the articles that it hangs up on certain ammo. Then I decide on a Ruger and there will be a paragraph on bringing a hammer to the range with you when it jams. I know that many of you folks have all the major brands(Ruger, Walther, S&W, Browning). Is there any consensus of which gun does not take a degree in physics to operate and takedown and shoots reasonably accurate?

February 25, 2002, 10:49 PM	#3
mparris71 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2001 Location: WNC Posts: 104	Ruger What horror storys are you talking about? I had a ruger that Jamed alot untill ruger fix the problem with it. flawless now. Every time the MKII jamed it was simple to unjam no tools needed. Takeing it apart is as easy as any other gun I own!! the first two or three times was not fun but after I learned how, it was simple. degree in physics you say, it is simple as opening a pocket knife and a pull and a tug. I can take it down and put it back together in less than a min. without any tools. Buy the Mark II or the Buckmark you will be pleased.

February 25, 2002, 10:36 PM	#2
Tropical Z Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2000 Location: Atlantis Posts: 1,683	My FEG smc-22 is a simple .22 that is accurate and reliable.I have heard the horror stories about that dang Ruger though.Maybe you should wait for that awesome new Berretta!

February 26, 2002, 03:58 AM	#4
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	Don't get scared off of the Rugers. Both of my .22/45's take down and go back together in 30 seconds. All it takes is doing it 20 times to get used to it. Neither of them are pickey about ammo, and are accurate enough that I can hit a penny at 50 yards off hand within 50 shots,,,,,on a good day . On great day, and with enough sleep the night before I can do it within 10 shots...least I could last summer. The Mark II I own is a ittle pickey about ammo. It prefers 40 gr high velocity non hollow points. Some hollow points will hang up on the feed ramp. Solids are 100% reliable. Mine WILL NOT feed stingers reliably. Buckmarks (see the Buckmark thread)-All of mine prefer high velocity ammo. Standard velocity usually results in stove pipes or jams. Nolo problemo as all of the have shown a preference for Remington Thunderbolts, which although filthy, are high velocity. CA75b w/Kadet upper (See Mr. Camps comments on the .22 conversion thread) Available as both an upper conversion unit for a CZ75/CZ75b or as a dedicated .22. Very easy to take down, very high quality all steel unit. Very accurate. CZ sells a Champion trigger assembly for the 75b that should make the Kadet outstanding. The Champion CZ I handeled at a local dealer had a very crisp trigger that broke around 1 1/2 pounds w/ zero creep. Possibly the sleeper of all .22s on the market right now. If you own a 75b, the Kadet runs about $250.00. The Champion trigger group is around $35.00 IIRC. A dedicated Kadet shoulr run around $400.00. S&W 22s/22a. Outstanding accuracy. Far above the Rugers. Mine with a scoped 7 1/2" barrel has shot dime sized 50 shot groups at 25 yards from a rest. On a really good day a couple years ago, I managed a dime sized 5 shot group at 50 yards from a rest.( everything was going right that day and I don't know if I could duplicate that,,,point is the gun can and has delivered that) The main drawback to the 22s/22a is they aren't built for the long run. Mine has shown considerable wear on the slide in a relativly low (1-2K) rounds. Takedown is fairly simple. The nylon slide buffer is only good for 100 or 200 or so rounds, then needs replaced. my recommendation is to avoid them unless you have a few other .22's and want one super accurate gun. For a one and only .22 semi,,,forget it. They ain't made for the long haul. I bought mine as more of a novelty item, and added a set of three different barrels. 5 1/2 inch Bull barrel, 7 1/2 inch Target barrel and the 5 1/2 inch target barrel it came with. One barrel has open sights, one has a scope, and the third has a red dot. Hey, what the hey, it looks impressive in a pistol case. S&W Model 41. Considerd by most to be the Mercedes of .22's. I don't care for the funky grips myself, so I haven't bought one yet. Can't comment on take down. Raves far outnumber bad or even so-so comments about the 41. I'll let others sing the praise of the 41 for the time being. Eventually I get one I suppose,,,when the right used one comes along at te right time. So far I've passed on 2 of them,,,used but unfired for under $600.00 ( I know, I know,,and yes I do kick myself for it, but there were mitigating circumstances in both cases,,,,such as a better deal on something I wanted more) High Standard- older ones ARE out there. Some are still reasonable as far as price goes. Arguably the best .22 semi auto ever made. (Some will say the Colt Woodsman is the best ever.) I've seen more High Standards shoot true 1 hole groups than anything else though, so I have to go with the HS as best ever. Triggers that are measured in ounces rather than pounds tend to do things like that I guess. Bottom line,,,The Ruger slabside should fit what you want for plinker/semi comp unless you can luck into a 41 or a High Standard for a good price. Mine runs right up there with a Trailside (actually, better than the Trailside) for accuracy, based on the sample Target supplied with the Trailside. Buckmarks are really decent guns also. Matter of fact, it's lot harder to find a bad .22 than it is to find a good one.

February 26, 2002, 05:02 PM	#5
bowhnter Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2002 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 173	I love my Baikal IZH-35M. See it here http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/hguns/izh35m/ They can be had for aaaround $400. I shoot 50' indoor slow-fire bullseye with it. After I sighted it in I'm averaging 247 out of 300 after 8 weeks. It was kind of picky about what you feed it, as most .22's are. I tried many brands and settled w/ Federal GM Target. I can't say enough about this gun. I'm biased. I checked out almost all of the target model .22's. I skipped the HIGH end pistols. 5 way adj. trigger, etc.... This was the best package for me. 2 guys at the club have Ruger's. FWIW, They also have feed & jamming problems. Another has a S&W m41. Very nice piece.

February 26, 2002, 06:00 PM	#6
Swamp Yankee Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2000 Location: Northeastern Ct. Posts: 1,019	Have 2 Buckmarks, one 5.5 std., the other a 5.5 Silhouette model. Both are great plinkers, would not be afraid to compete with the Silhouette if I could shoot it to its capability. The Ruger is a fine pistol as well. I do not care for the grip angle, but that's my subjective opinion. In terms of reliability and accuracy the Ruger is a good choice. Either will serve you well. Take Care

February 27, 2002, 12:52 AM	#7
makarov Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Location: Washington State Posts: 709	I own the Ruger KMKGC-678 (the Govt. Slabside model) it has never given me a hint of trouble and is very accurate. I recently bought a used Browning Medalist and now I know the difference between a nice trigger and a GREAT trigger. The Browning does stovepipe once in a while, but man that old gun can shoot! http://blake.prohosting.com/~mirandab/medalist.jpg http://blake.prohosting.com/~mirandab/ruger.jpg Ruger has been polished. Makes it hard to take a picture. You can't go wrong with the Ruger. I have been thinking about the IZH-35m for 2 years now. Considered it at the time I bought the Ruger, but wanted a "bulletproof" gun. The Ruger will outlast you... The IZH is a great gun if you are into competition shooting. I'm not, but still I'm drawn to the gun... Think I might have to get one. My local shop has one in the case for $420 - could probably talk him down a little since he first heard about them from me and has since sold quite a few of them. People really like them. Too bad we don't import the CZ-122.