I commited a Negligent Discharge tonight

spleenandideal · May 10, 2002, 11:23 PM

I am stupid, stupid, stupid stupid, STUPID!

I was getting my gear ready to go shooting tomorrow morning. I was excited because I just got a new barrel for a shotgun. I wanted to compare it to the Remington shotgun I usually keep for self defense locked in my bedroom, so I had them both out earlier. Never did lock either up because I was going to be home anyway. Did my nightly treadmill run. Girlfriend came over at 8:00 to watch American Shooter with me.

I had ALWAYS in my years of shooting followed the commandments of safety. I ALWAYS check three times to ensure a firearm is unloaded prior to dry-firing. I ALWAYS in the past dry-fired at a safe backstop (usually in my basement). I always keep my guns locked UNLOADED in a safe, to the point where I unload my CCW and place it in the safe every night. With the exception of the 870 I keep loaded but locked upstairs. Mind you, this firearm hasn't been fired in a couple years.

My girlfriend was watching TV. Some mindless show about potential playboy bunnies. I had found the old Remington manual because I wanted to see if it could be safely dry-fired without damaging my firing-pin. I stood up and picked up the 870. I was not thinking. No, I was not under the influence of anything. I carelessly shouldered the shotgun, and without thinking pulled the trigger and put buckshot through my TV, through the wall behind it. Glass everywhere. The smoke alarms went off. Nobody thank God, got hurt. My GF is okay, surprisingly calm after all the chaos. After the initial shock and requisite clean-up, we both sat down and looked at each other. I cried like a baby. I cried so much it hurt to breathr. The thoughts of worse outcomes kept flashing through my head....I could've seriously injured or killed my best friend, I could've hurt or killed myself. I coulda damaged my home even more. Luckily the buckshot missed the piping behind the wall, but there was ricocheted glass/plastic/lead everywhere. The TV can be replaced, the plaster can be patched, but I will never again forget to triple-check.

I feel so ill to my stomach. I learned a valuable lesson tonight. I was careless for the FIRST TIME in my life with a firearm and this happened. I'm usually the person at the firing range that yells at people for doing things carelessly. I always pay attenition to the marshals at competition. I always unload my firearms and keep them out of hand when other shooters are downrange. I do not feel like shooting with my friends tomorrow. I need to go to another firearms safety course.

I hope all my fellow TFLers remind themselves rigorously about safety...sure there have been posts in the past about ND/AD and I always thought, 'well jeez, that was dumb...I'd NEVER do that."
Well, I was negligent for a nanosecond, and I did the unthinkable.
I'm sorry, just needed to get it out. Thanks for listening.

Coronach · May 10, 2002, 11:28 PM

Lets see if I have this right. There is a show on TV involving playboy bunnies, and you're reading your shotgun manual? To say nothing of then loudly extinguishing the TV...

Issues, issues.

Mike

PS seriously- glad no one got shot.

John/az2 · May 10, 2002, 11:30 PM

Thanks for the reality check, and thank God no one but the bunnies were hurt!

posigian · May 10, 2002, 11:41 PM

Very glad to hear no one was hurt and that just goes to show how it can happen to anyone. Your story was a big eye opener for me and its made me do an over-view of my day to day habits

Be safe and thanks for sharing,

Posigian

Calamity Jane · May 10, 2002, 11:53 PM

Considering that it was the TV you shot, and given its mindless fare, are you sure your ND wasn't a FD (Freudian Discharge)?

Seriously, I'm glad no one was hurt. Thanks for sharing your story. You've reminded us TFLers that it can happen to anyone - an exceedingly valuable safety reminder to never relax vigilance.

Take good care,

CJ and hubby

clem · May 10, 2002, 11:59 PM

Well, it sounds like you learned a LOT, very cheaply. Glad to hear that no one was hurt.

I just keep all my guns loaded and put away, (no little ones around), so I know ALL the guns are loaded.
Clem
USMC Retired

psssniper · May 11, 2002, 12:06 AM

Spleen
Appreciate your sharing your story, it's not easy admitting an error, especially one like this. Thank God everyones okay.
Hopefully we ALL can learn a lesson. Take care.

Vladimir_Berkov · May 11, 2002, 01:27 AM

Guns need to be banned! Won't someone think of the televisions? Won't someone PLEASE think of the televisions!

Jim March · May 11, 2002, 01:39 AM

The good news is, you didn't violate that one last critical rule: never point it at a person. So this is a lesson learned, rather than lives destroyed.

Learn, but don't beat yourself up too bad

.

DLL · May 11, 2002, 01:42 AM

spleenandideal,
Thanks for sharing. Yeah, that was pretty stupid.

I'm glad everyone's okay. When I first handled a gun I was very nervous. Too nervous. I was trying too hard to be safe, if that's possible. Now I'm comfortable with guns. They are another tool. I hope I never get too comfortable. And I hope I always keep the safety rules in mind, and I hope I always respect these awsome tools. Your story reminds me of why.

Mithirium · May 11, 2002, 01:48 AM

<incoherent sobbing>
.
.
<sniff, sniff>
.
Not .....
my........
sony....
flatscreen.....
.
.
<incoherent sobbing>
<sniff>

Gotta be kinda like shooting your dog by accident or something

Seriously though, Thank you for sharing. Your experience can remind us all that it only takes one mistake to ruin many lives. Be thankful you were following the muzzle control rule. Occurrences like this really get your adrenaline rushing. Really havent AD'ed before but I did fall asleep driving once and and smack a center divide at 60mph. That'll put you back into the realworld fast. Probably a similiar feeling anyway

regards,
M

El Rojo · May 11, 2002, 02:06 AM

Spleen you discribed the sickening feeling and the feeling of complete supidity perfectly. I know because I had an AD when I was 21. I started shooting when I was six!!! How could the "gun guy" make such a stupid mistake? How could I not realize I had a round in the chamber? Mistakes happen. There are a few important things you will learn from this.

1) Humbleness!!! No longer are people who have ADs complete morons. It can happen.

2) It most likely won't happen again. You thought you checked the chamber a lot before this. Now wait and see what happens. I had my AD with my M1 Carbine. I check that thing at least 5 times now. I check my other guns too 2 or 3 times, but the M1 Carbine gets it several times.

3) New found awareness of muzzle direction. My AD went through the window in my front door, across the street, through the neighbors wall, into a dry aquarium, and stopped against a petrified rock in the dry aquarium. Neighbors? Were in the next room!!! It scares me even to this day. Where is that muzzle now? Always at the floor. I doubt you will ever point the gun at the TV again.

You have the right attitude about this AD. You are humbled and you are determined to never let it happen again. As bad as this incident is to your ego, you will eventually be glad it happened. Events like these are excellent reinforcements to the rules. I really hope no one has to go through it. If you do it and someone gets hurt, I couldn't imagine the pain and termoil you would have to face. But when that bullet stops and no one is hurt, it is seriously one of the best things that can happen to a shooter. People might not agree, but until it happens to you, you don't quite understand the feelings so well written by Spleen. It is a feeling you never, ever want to have again.

Libertarian · May 11, 2002, 02:54 AM

Aren't rabbits out of season now?

You're lucky that no one was hurt. A cheap lesson all in all.

stevetuna · May 11, 2002, 05:35 AM

Thanks for your honesty. I was just thinking yesterday that sometimes I'm a little too easy-going lately with my gun handling. Your story is a reality check for all of us, starting with me.

I'm glad noone was hurt.

citizen · May 11, 2002, 06:05 AM

Want redemption?

Get involved; maybe learn to teach a safety course.
Fortunately, in this instance, your life goes on.....

nascarnhlnra · May 11, 2002, 06:38 AM

Well if it's gonna be a mindless tv show why not Hot Playboy bunnies...LOL.....I would go shoot with your friends and be glad nobody got hurt and the law didn't show up at your door. Consider it a lesson learned .....the hard way !

Ed Brunner · May 11, 2002, 06:38 AM

You don't need another firearms safety course. You just had the best one there is.

KSFreeman · May 11, 2002, 06:46 AM

TFL Chours, ready? "All guns are always loaded!" Even if it is kept "unloaded." Even if you are excited by bunnies. All guns are ALWAYS loaded.

Good to see even if Rule #1 was violated that you did not violate #2 and #4.

There are two kinds of people those that have had NDs and those who have not yet had one. Now that you have had one (and no one got hurt) you can teach others.

Ledbetter · May 11, 2002, 11:13 AM

El Rojo got it right. Thank God no one was hurt. Thank God for the cardinal rule: never point a handgun at something you aren't willing to destroy (permanently).

Thank God for a cheap lesson that will stay with you forever.

Regards.

El Rojo · May 11, 2002, 11:19 AM

I wouldn't necessarily call it a cheap lesson. It is an exepensive lesson full of serious ramifications. Could it have been worse? Of course. Had someone been hurt though, there is no way to call that expensive. Someone's life is priceless. Bringing harm to somone in an accident, cannot be compared to any monetary discriptions. Maybe it is just semantics, but I would never call this a cheap lesson, it should mean more than that. If you look at it as a cheap lesson, you are living dangerously. It needs to be a serious wake up call. A cheap lesson is where you have an accidental discharge in the middle of nowhere and the bullet harmlessly hits dirt. Shooting out your TV with 00 Buck and messing up your wall is not cheap!

nsf003 · May 11, 2002, 11:35 AM

I sometimes have to remind myself not to get too comfortable or cocky around guns. Never dad an AD and I don't want too. Thanks for the wake up call.

nsf003

stinger · May 11, 2002, 12:42 PM

if it doesn't kill you (or anyone else) it will make you stronger. i'm glad you are okay, and i'm sure you learned something.

stinger

nsf003 · May 11, 2002, 01:08 PM

I almost had a serious accident once, I was shooting my Taurus M66 in .357 and was testing for flinch. I loaded 6 snap caps and one live round. I spun the cylinder to randomize my shots, and the cylinder stop got stuck down in its well and the cylinders were out of alignment. I pulled the trigger 8 times and wondered what happened. I open the cylinder and see firing pin marks on the sides of the snap caps and right on the edge of the primer for the live round. It was a full house .357 too. If it would have gone off, it probably would have blown up the gun. I guess it wasn't my time yet. Be careful.

nsf003

ATTICUS · May 11, 2002, 03:16 PM

Shooters are hell on TV's aren't they!? Glad to hear your both OK.
Can we call you ELVIS now?

adept · May 11, 2002, 06:27 PM

Spleen, glad to hear that the only injuries were to pride and TV. you will take this lesson with you everywhere, and in everything that you do. now, get yer self down to the range and toss those bits of lead where they belong, at a target.

Atticus, how's your healing going??

Adept

May 10, 2002, 11:30 PM	#3
John/az2 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,729	Thanks for the reality check, and thank God no one but the bunnies were hurt! __________________ John/az Six Blind Sheep \| The Publishing Site \| Online Product Reviews

May 10, 2002, 11:53 PM	#5
Calamity Jane Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 899	Considering that it was the TV you shot, and given its mindless fare, are you sure your ND wasn't a FD (Freudian Discharge)? Seriously, I'm glad no one was hurt. Thanks for sharing your story. You've reminded us TFLers that it can happen to anyone - an exceedingly valuable safety reminder to never relax vigilance. Take good care, CJ and hubby __________________ CJ “The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.” ~ Ernest Hemingway

May 11, 2002, 01:39 AM	#9
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	The good news is, you didn't violate that one last critical rule: never point it at a person. So this is a lesson learned, rather than lives destroyed. Learn, but don't beat yourself up too bad . __________________ Jim March

May 11, 2002, 01:42 AM	#10
DLL Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2002 Location: California Posts: 135	spleenandideal, Thanks for sharing. Yeah, that was pretty stupid. I'm glad everyone's okay. When I first handled a gun I was very nervous. Too nervous. I was trying too hard to be safe, if that's possible. Now I'm comfortable with guns. They are another tool. I hope I never get too comfortable. And I hope I always keep the safety rules in mind, and I hope I always respect these awsome tools. Your story reminds me of why. __________________ I don't understand all the "let's give peace a chance" people. I give peace a chance everyday. My Glock is there just in case peace doesn't show up.

May 11, 2002, 01:48 AM	#11
Mithirium Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2001 Location: In the Foothills Posts: 345	<incoherent sobbing> . . <sniff, sniff> . Not ..... my........ sony.... flatscreen..... . . <incoherent sobbing> <sniff> Gotta be kinda like shooting your dog by accident or something Seriously though, Thank you for sharing. Your experience can remind us all that it only takes one mistake to ruin many lives. Be thankful you were following the muzzle control rule. Occurrences like this really get your adrenaline rushing. Really havent AD'ed before but I did fall asleep driving once and and smack a center divide at 60mph. That'll put you back into the realworld fast. Probably a similiar feeling anyway regards, M __________________ Freedom requires the individual will to let others live as they would choose.

May 10, 2002, 11:23 PM	#1
spleenandideal Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1998 Location: I-77, USA Posts: 522	I commited a Negligent Discharge tonight I am stupid, stupid, stupid stupid, STUPID! I was getting my gear ready to go shooting tomorrow morning. I was excited because I just got a new barrel for a shotgun. I wanted to compare it to the Remington shotgun I usually keep for self defense locked in my bedroom, so I had them both out earlier. Never did lock either up because I was going to be home anyway. Did my nightly treadmill run. Girlfriend came over at 8:00 to watch American Shooter with me. I had ALWAYS in my years of shooting followed the commandments of safety. I ALWAYS check three times to ensure a firearm is unloaded prior to dry-firing. I ALWAYS in the past dry-fired at a safe backstop (usually in my basement). I always keep my guns locked UNLOADED in a safe, to the point where I unload my CCW and place it in the safe every night. With the exception of the 870 I keep loaded but locked upstairs. Mind you, this firearm hasn't been fired in a couple years. My girlfriend was watching TV. Some mindless show about potential playboy bunnies. I had found the old Remington manual because I wanted to see if it could be safely dry-fired without damaging my firing-pin. I stood up and picked up the 870. I was not thinking. No, I was not under the influence of anything. I carelessly shouldered the shotgun, and without thinking pulled the trigger and put buckshot through my TV, through the wall behind it. Glass everywhere. The smoke alarms went off. Nobody thank God, got hurt. My GF is okay, surprisingly calm after all the chaos. After the initial shock and requisite clean-up, we both sat down and looked at each other. I cried like a baby. I cried so much it hurt to breathr. The thoughts of worse outcomes kept flashing through my head....I could've seriously injured or killed my best friend, I could've hurt or killed myself. I coulda damaged my home even more. Luckily the buckshot missed the piping behind the wall, but there was ricocheted glass/plastic/lead everywhere. The TV can be replaced, the plaster can be patched, but I will never again forget to triple-check. I feel so ill to my stomach. I learned a valuable lesson tonight. I was careless for the FIRST TIME in my life with a firearm and this happened. I'm usually the person at the firing range that yells at people for doing things carelessly. I always pay attenition to the marshals at competition. I always unload my firearms and keep them out of hand when other shooters are downrange. I do not feel like shooting with my friends tomorrow. I need to go to another firearms safety course. I hope all my fellow TFLers remind themselves rigorously about safety...sure there have been posts in the past about ND/AD and I always thought, 'well jeez, that was dumb...I'd NEVER do that." Well, I was negligent for a nanosecond, and I did the unthinkable. I'm sorry, just needed to get it out. Thanks for listening.

May 10, 2002, 11:28 PM	#2
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Lets see if I have this right. There is a show on TV involving playboy bunnies, and you're reading your shotgun manual? To say nothing of then loudly extinguishing the TV... Issues, issues. Mike PS seriously- glad no one got shot. __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

May 10, 2002, 11:41 PM	#4
posigian Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Location: Great Lakes State Posts: 115	Very glad to hear no one was hurt and that just goes to show how it can happen to anyone. Your story was a big eye opener for me and its made me do an over-view of my day to day habits Be safe and thanks for sharing, Posigian

May 10, 2002, 11:59 PM	#6
clem Junior member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 847	Well, it sounds like you learned a LOT, very cheaply. Glad to hear that no one was hurt. I just keep all my guns loaded and put away, (no little ones around), so I know ALL the guns are loaded. Clem USMC Retired

May 11, 2002, 12:06 AM	#7
psssniper Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2001 Posts: 186	Spleen Appreciate your sharing your story, it's not easy admitting an error, especially one like this. Thank God everyones okay. Hopefully we ALL can learn a lesson. Take care.

May 11, 2002, 01:27 AM	#8
Vladimir_Berkov Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2001 Posts: 378	Guns need to be banned! Won't someone think of the televisions? Won't someone PLEASE think of the televisions!

May 11, 2002, 02:06 AM	#12
El Rojo Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 2,057	Spleen you discribed the sickening feeling and the feeling of complete supidity perfectly. I know because I had an AD when I was 21. I started shooting when I was six!!! How could the "gun guy" make such a stupid mistake? How could I not realize I had a round in the chamber? Mistakes happen. There are a few important things you will learn from this. 1) Humbleness!!! No longer are people who have ADs complete morons. It can happen. 2) It most likely won't happen again. You thought you checked the chamber a lot before this. Now wait and see what happens. I had my AD with my M1 Carbine. I check that thing at least 5 times now. I check my other guns too 2 or 3 times, but the M1 Carbine gets it several times. 3) New found awareness of muzzle direction. My AD went through the window in my front door, across the street, through the neighbors wall, into a dry aquarium, and stopped against a petrified rock in the dry aquarium. Neighbors? Were in the next room!!! It scares me even to this day. Where is that muzzle now? Always at the floor. I doubt you will ever point the gun at the TV again. You have the right attitude about this AD. You are humbled and you are determined to never let it happen again. As bad as this incident is to your ego, you will eventually be glad it happened. Events like these are excellent reinforcements to the rules. I really hope no one has to go through it. If you do it and someone gets hurt, I couldn't imagine the pain and termoil you would have to face. But when that bullet stops and no one is hurt, it is seriously one of the best things that can happen to a shooter. People might not agree, but until it happens to you, you don't quite understand the feelings so well written by Spleen. It is a feeling you never, ever want to have again. __________________ Get Some!

May 11, 2002, 02:54 AM	#13
Libertarian Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 1999 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,117	Aren't rabbits out of season now? You're lucky that no one was hurt. A cheap lesson all in all. __________________ "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." JFK My other favorite forum is The Armed Citizen My PGP key is 0x780B7C0A

May 11, 2002, 05:35 AM	#14
stevetuna Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2001 Location: Nantucket, MA Posts: 258	Thanks for your honesty. I was just thinking yesterday that sometimes I'm a little too easy-going lately with my gun handling. Your story is a reality check for all of us, starting with me. I'm glad noone was hurt.

May 11, 2002, 06:05 AM	#15
citizen Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2000 Posts: 796	Want redemption? Get involved; maybe learn to teach a safety course. Fortunately, in this instance, your life goes on..... __________________ ILLEGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM NRA, GOA, AOC Ignorance can be cured, Stupid is forever Life is too short for dial-up

May 11, 2002, 06:38 AM	#16
nascarnhlnra Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2002 Location: THE DEEP SOUTH USA Posts: 531	Well if it's gonna be a mindless tv show why not Hot Playboy bunnies...LOL.....I would go shoot with your friends and be glad nobody got hurt and the law didn't show up at your door. Consider it a lesson learned .....the hard way ! __________________ The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house faster than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !

May 11, 2002, 06:38 AM	#17
Ed Brunner Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: Natchez, MS, USA Posts: 2,562	You don't need another firearms safety course. You just had the best one there is. __________________ MOLON LABE UNTIL IT'S OVER! Ed

May 11, 2002, 06:46 AM	#18
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	TFL Chours, ready? "All guns are always loaded!" Even if it is kept "unloaded." Even if you are excited by bunnies. All guns are ALWAYS loaded. Good to see even if Rule #1 was violated that you did not violate #2 and #4. There are two kinds of people those that have had NDs and those who have not yet had one. Now that you have had one (and no one got hurt) you can teach others. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

May 11, 2002, 11:13 AM	#19
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Speaking as someone who also once shot a TV El Rojo got it right. Thank God no one was hurt. Thank God for the cardinal rule: never point a handgun at something you aren't willing to destroy (permanently). Thank God for a cheap lesson that will stay with you forever. Regards.

May 11, 2002, 11:19 AM	#20
El Rojo Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 2,057	I wouldn't necessarily call it a cheap lesson. It is an exepensive lesson full of serious ramifications. Could it have been worse? Of course. Had someone been hurt though, there is no way to call that expensive. Someone's life is priceless. Bringing harm to somone in an accident, cannot be compared to any monetary discriptions. Maybe it is just semantics, but I would never call this a cheap lesson, it should mean more than that. If you look at it as a cheap lesson, you are living dangerously. It needs to be a serious wake up call. A cheap lesson is where you have an accidental discharge in the middle of nowhere and the bullet harmlessly hits dirt. Shooting out your TV with 00 Buck and messing up your wall is not cheap! __________________ Get Some!

May 11, 2002, 11:35 AM	#21
nsf003 Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2002 Location: South Central PA Posts: 574	I sometimes have to remind myself not to get too comfortable or cocky around guns. Never dad an AD and I don't want too. Thanks for the wake up call. nsf003 __________________ Christian, American, Heterosexual, Pro-gun Conservative. Any Questions? Molon Labe! Lets Roll!

May 11, 2002, 12:42 PM	#22
stinger Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Location: west texas Posts: 772	if it doesn't kill you (or anyone else) it will make you stronger. i'm glad you are okay, and i'm sure you learned something. stinger

May 11, 2002, 01:08 PM	#23
nsf003 Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2002 Location: South Central PA Posts: 574	I almost had a serious accident once, I was shooting my Taurus M66 in .357 and was testing for flinch. I loaded 6 snap caps and one live round. I spun the cylinder to randomize my shots, and the cylinder stop got stuck down in its well and the cylinders were out of alignment. I pulled the trigger 8 times and wondered what happened. I open the cylinder and see firing pin marks on the sides of the snap caps and right on the edge of the primer for the live round. It was a full house .357 too. If it would have gone off, it probably would have blown up the gun. I guess it wasn't my time yet. Be careful. nsf003 __________________ Christian, American, Heterosexual, Pro-gun Conservative. Any Questions? Molon Labe! Lets Roll!

May 11, 2002, 03:16 PM	#24
ATTICUS Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,100	Shooters are hell on TV's aren't they!? Glad to hear your both OK. Can we call you ELVIS now? __________________ Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

May 11, 2002, 06:27 PM	#25
adept Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Posts: 410	Spleen, glad to hear that the only injuries were to pride and TV. you will take this lesson with you everywhere, and in everything that you do. now, get yer self down to the range and toss those bits of lead where they belong, at a target. Atticus, how's your healing going?? Adept __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759