"still an assault rifle"

dZ · October 25, 2002, 02:33 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/25/na...html?tntemail1
October 25, 2002

Officials Say Records Show Gun Was Illegally Owned
By FOX BUTTERFIELD

ederal authorities said last night that a gun seized from two suspects had been officially linked to the shootings in the Washington area and that one of the suspects, John Allen Muhammad, should have been legally disqualified from buying or possessing it.

The gun is a Bushmaster XM15 A3 M4, a civilian version of the standard American military rifle, the M-16, made with a removable handle on top so that a scope can be easily mounted on it, say officials of its maker, Bushmaster Firearms.

Bushmaster Firearms is a small privately owned company in Windham, Me., that specializes in making copies of the M-16. Last year it made 50,000 rifles, said the company's vice president, Allen Faraday, with the XM15 selling for about $800. On its Web site, Bushmaster advertises its rifles as "the best, by a long shot."

Michael Bouchard, an agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, said at a news conference that tests had linked the seized gun to the East Coast killings.

Mr. Faraday said the gun was first sold to a distributor in Washington State last June. He declined to identify the wholesaler and said he did not know how or where Mr. Muhammad acquired the rifle.

The sniper's choice of the XM15 was a little unusual, Mr. Faraday said, because it has a 16-inch barrel and is therefore less accurate than the conventional M-16, which has a 20-inch barrel, or many sniper rifles that have 26-inch barrels. The shorter barrel, however, does make the XM15 easier to conceal.

In a telephone interview, Mr. Faraday said today, "Naturally we feel terrible and horrified" by the sniper killings in Maryland, Virginia and Washington, D.C. "We are very sad this deranged and crazy man picked up one of our guns."

Bushmaster first learned the identity of the gun seized in Mr. Muhammad's car when A.T.F. agents called the company a few hours later with the weapon's serial number, Mr. Faraday said.

Legally, Mr. Muhammad apparently should not have been able to buy a gun because he was under a domestic protective order taken out in March 2000 by Mildred Denice Muhammad, then his wife, in State Superior Court in Tacoma, Wash., court records show. The couple, who lived in Tacoma, were divorced in October 2000, and the restraining order was made permanent, the court documents also show.

The 1994 Crime Control Act made it illegal for a person under a restraining order to buy or possess a gun, and a mandatory background check should have revealed Mr. Muhammad's disqualification. It was Mr. Muhammad's possession of the gun, despite his disqualification, that led the authorities to charge him Wednesday night with a firearms violation, an official of the firearms bureau said.

Figures compiled by the bureau show that Bushmaster was a tiny company until the Clinton administration persuaded Congress to pass a ban on assault weapons in 1994. From 1988 to 1992, Bushmaster manufactured an average of only 1,500 rifles a year, and made none in 1993, the year before the ban. But in 1994 its production jumped to 24,868 rifles.

Mr. Faraday was careful to say its copies of the M-16 were not assault weapons, since they do not have collapsible stocks, flash suppressers or a mounting to install a bayonet, some features that were ruled out by the 1994 ban. The magazine of the XM15 also holds only 10 rounds, the permissible limit set by the 1994 ban.

In addition, the rifle is only a semiautomatic, requiring a trigger pull for each shot, not fully automatic as a military rifle, which allows multiple rounds to be fired with a single pull of the trigger.

But Kristen Rand, the legislative director for the Violence Policy Center in Washington, a gun control group, said that the XM15 seized in Mr. Muhammad's car still had features that mimic an assault weapon.

"It complies with the letter of the law, but it is still an assault rifle," Ms. Rand said.

The ban on assault weapons expires in 2004 and is considered likely to be the subject of a major fight in Congress. The National Rifle Association strongly opposed the ban and has made not renewing it a priority. The association has also opposed the prohibition on people under a restraining order from buying a gun.

A spokesman for the association, Andrew Arulanandam, did not return telephone calls today seeking comment.

Bushmaster's principal owner and chairman, Richard Dyke, was the finance chairman of George W. Bush's campaign for the presidency in Maine in 1999. Mr. Dyke resigned as Mr. Bush's chief fund-raiser in Maine in July 1999 after a Los Angeles police officer sued Bushmaster as the maker of a gun that wounded him in a shootout with bank robbers.

Kaboom · October 25, 2002, 02:50 PM

For once they almost got it right. Any rifle that you are shot with is an assault rifle. About time that distinction was made.

Jeff White · October 25, 2002, 03:36 PM

Whatever it is, it's NOT a semi-automatic assault rifle. You all won that fight in 1994. While before that the definition might have been a bit vague, it's not now. You all had your definition codified into the United States Code. Can't say it's something that it's not.

And by saying that it is an assault rifle, you are just admitting to the world that you settled for a definition that was cosmetic and meaningless. So the crowning achievement of the American gun control movement was meaningless and cosmetic?

Come on..I want to hear you say it.....

Jeff

143=T

alan · October 25, 2002, 03:50 PM

By the lights of Ms. Rand, and like minded others, anything that goes BANG is an "assault weapon". The mere facts of enacted legislation, or technical considerations that dictate otherwise are unimportant. Don't bother me with fact, when what passses for my mind is made up.

RepublicThunderbolt · October 25, 2002, 03:56 PM

Moreover, it's not an "assault rifle" without select-fire capability. "Semi-auto Sturmgewehr" is an oxymoron.
______________
"The bullet of justice that destroys evil! How do you like that?" - Excel Saga

spacemanspiff · October 25, 2002, 04:36 PM

sooo........ if i get a bushmaster that complies with the letter of the law, or any similar type weapon, it WONT be an assault weapon until its used to assault someone?

"that is NOT a duck. true, it quacks like a duck, but its not a duck.
true, it waddles like a duck, but its not a duck.
true, it has the markings of a duck, but its not a duck.
true, it has the dna of a duck, but its not a duck."

??????? :barf: :barf: :barf:

tool - intolerance:
"I don't want to be hostile.
I don't want to be dismal.
But I don't want to rot in an apathetic existance either.
See I want to believe you,
and I want to trust
and I want to have faith to put away the dagger.
But you lie, cheat, and steal.
And yet I tolerate you.
Veil of virtue hung to hide your method
while I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your praise and glory.
Shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma
as I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your glory
while you lie, cheat, and steal.
How can I tolerate you. "

Tamara · October 25, 2002, 05:16 PM

As lendringser's sigline used to say: "Assault" is a verb, not a noun.

Pizzagunner · October 25, 2002, 05:20 PM

Actually assault is a verb, not an adjective.

USAFNoDak · October 25, 2002, 05:37 PM

Quote:

"It complies with the letter of the law, but it is still an assault rifle," Ms. Rand said.

It is not an assault rifle, as those are select fire. It is not an assault weapon as defined in the 94 Crum bill. If it was, then she just admitted that the 94 Crum bill isn't working any better than the Brady Bill with its background check. What a dweeb. When will the media start calling these lug nuts on their mis statements.

Begins holding breath: now turning red, now blue, tick tick tick, thump, he passes out.

Monkeyleg · October 25, 2002, 05:38 PM

"It complies with the letter of the law, but it is still an assault rifle..."

They wrote the language of the law, and now they want to change it again. Bushmaster could put walnut stocks on their rifles and finish them in Royal Blue, but it wouldn't matter. As long as it's semi-auto (or ugly), it's an "assault rifle."

Kristen Rand is an idiot, but an evil idiot.

RickD · October 25, 2002, 05:43 PM

Ms Rand also mentions in another article that the Bushmaster still had certain traits in common with an "assault rifle" (why are they not using the term "assault weapon" anymore?) such as as pistol grip, which makes it easier "to shoot from the hip."

She obviously has never bothered to compare rifles. It is far easier to "shoot from the hip" using a conventional rifle stock. The pistol grip may make it easier to shoot from under the armpit, but, why should one care?

Rick

Hkmp5sd · October 25, 2002, 05:43 PM

Gotta watch out for those "mimic" features.

alan · October 25, 2002, 06:12 PM

USAFNODAK:

You asked: "When will the media start calling these lug nuts on their mis statements"

The answer is, NEVER.

Yesterday afternoon, I heard NPR refere to this Bushmaster rifle as simply a "semi-automatic rifle", which obviously it is, however later in the evening, it having been to good to last, they were back to the same old "assault rifle" song and dance.

As I said above, most likely, the answer to your question is NEVER.

M4A3 · October 25, 2002, 06:12 PM

This talk is making my head hurt!! It's just a bunch of political mumbo jumbo jive talk.

Assault is an act. So... I guess an "assault weapon" would be "a weapon that is desingned for assaulting somone or somthing".

Are all of the AR-15's we own desinged for assaulting? YES...I think it's stupid to say "because it doesn't have a flash hider it's not an assault weapon".

I don't even know whare I'm going with this. This is just a STUPID thing to talk about.

Kharn · October 25, 2002, 06:28 PM

Quote:

I think it's stupid to say "because it doesn't have a flash hider it's not an assault weapon".

The law is what defines an "assault weapon" and also defines post-9/94 "assault weapons" as illegal, we are saying that we are in compliance with the law because our rifles do not have flash hiders.

Kharn

RickD · October 25, 2002, 06:29 PM

I agree, SR. We should not be debating using their terms or arguments. We should not be using the term A-W, A-R, or whatever.

Rick
Cleaning My Homeland Defense Rifle

SIGarmed · October 26, 2002, 12:25 AM

Assault weapon? Its a dam "home defense rifle"!
Whats wrong with those?

Zundfolge · October 26, 2002, 12:55 AM

I think you guys just missed the "we are winning" point here.

Quote:

But Kristen Rand, the legislative director for the Violence Policy Center in Washington, a gun control group, said that the XM15 seized in Mr. Muhammad's car still had features that mimic an assault weapon.

Note that bolded part ... a gun control group. Not a "crime prevention" or "gun safety" group or any other euphemism designed to hide their true intent. The New York Freakin' Times just labeled the Violence Policy Center as what it really is; a gun control group.

So instead of beating this dead horse (that a VPC idiot wants to call a semi auto rifle an "assault rifle") let us revel in the fact that the NY Times is willing to call a spade a spade and print the truth about VPC

In addition the NY Times also said he owned the gun illegaly instead of trying to paint a picture of him as an average, law abiding gun owner who turned evil because of the mind control ray that guns put out.

As for the label "assault rifle" I still prefer the label "Sport Utility Rifle" and would love to see that term become the official TFL term for our little black rifles.

Torquemada · October 27, 2002, 02:00 AM

"Battery rifle" is correct. An "assault rifle" is one used to threaten someone with, not to actually shoot them.

Although if you have consent of the shootee, it's neither.

VPC = :barf:

WilderBill · October 27, 2002, 03:06 AM

Another question I have that relates to this:
Since every one of his attacks involved only a single shot, does this help us in that "they" can't cry about the terrible, devestating, unecessary, high rate of fire the Bushmaster has?

Just a hopeful thought.

Tom B · October 27, 2002, 07:01 AM

Save your hi cap mags boys and girls as we won't see any sunsets in 04!

ctdonath · October 27, 2002, 02:29 PM

Anyone surprised?
New Jersy just declared 51 = 30, so it only logically follows that "isn't" = "is".

October 25, 2002, 02:33 PM	#1
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	"still an assault rifle" http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/25/na...html?tntemail1 October 25, 2002 Officials Say Records Show Gun Was Illegally Owned By FOX BUTTERFIELD ederal authorities said last night that a gun seized from two suspects had been officially linked to the shootings in the Washington area and that one of the suspects, John Allen Muhammad, should have been legally disqualified from buying or possessing it. The gun is a Bushmaster XM15 A3 M4, a civilian version of the standard American military rifle, the M-16, made with a removable handle on top so that a scope can be easily mounted on it, say officials of its maker, Bushmaster Firearms. Bushmaster Firearms is a small privately owned company in Windham, Me., that specializes in making copies of the M-16. Last year it made 50,000 rifles, said the company's vice president, Allen Faraday, with the XM15 selling for about $800. On its Web site, Bushmaster advertises its rifles as "the best, by a long shot." Michael Bouchard, an agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, said at a news conference that tests had linked the seized gun to the East Coast killings. Mr. Faraday said the gun was first sold to a distributor in Washington State last June. He declined to identify the wholesaler and said he did not know how or where Mr. Muhammad acquired the rifle. The sniper's choice of the XM15 was a little unusual, Mr. Faraday said, because it has a 16-inch barrel and is therefore less accurate than the conventional M-16, which has a 20-inch barrel, or many sniper rifles that have 26-inch barrels. The shorter barrel, however, does make the XM15 easier to conceal. In a telephone interview, Mr. Faraday said today, "Naturally we feel terrible and horrified" by the sniper killings in Maryland, Virginia and Washington, D.C. "We are very sad this deranged and crazy man picked up one of our guns." Bushmaster first learned the identity of the gun seized in Mr. Muhammad's car when A.T.F. agents called the company a few hours later with the weapon's serial number, Mr. Faraday said. Legally, Mr. Muhammad apparently should not have been able to buy a gun because he was under a domestic protective order taken out in March 2000 by Mildred Denice Muhammad, then his wife, in State Superior Court in Tacoma, Wash., court records show. The couple, who lived in Tacoma, were divorced in October 2000, and the restraining order was made permanent, the court documents also show. The 1994 Crime Control Act made it illegal for a person under a restraining order to buy or possess a gun, and a mandatory background check should have revealed Mr. Muhammad's disqualification. It was Mr. Muhammad's possession of the gun, despite his disqualification, that led the authorities to charge him Wednesday night with a firearms violation, an official of the firearms bureau said. Figures compiled by the bureau show that Bushmaster was a tiny company until the Clinton administration persuaded Congress to pass a ban on assault weapons in 1994. From 1988 to 1992, Bushmaster manufactured an average of only 1,500 rifles a year, and made none in 1993, the year before the ban. But in 1994 its production jumped to 24,868 rifles. Mr. Faraday was careful to say its copies of the M-16 were not assault weapons, since they do not have collapsible stocks, flash suppressers or a mounting to install a bayonet, some features that were ruled out by the 1994 ban. The magazine of the XM15 also holds only 10 rounds, the permissible limit set by the 1994 ban. In addition, the rifle is only a semiautomatic, requiring a trigger pull for each shot, not fully automatic as a military rifle, which allows multiple rounds to be fired with a single pull of the trigger. But Kristen Rand, the legislative director for the Violence Policy Center in Washington, a gun control group, said that the XM15 seized in Mr. Muhammad's car still had features that mimic an assault weapon. "It complies with the letter of the law, but it is still an assault rifle," Ms. Rand said. The ban on assault weapons expires in 2004 and is considered likely to be the subject of a major fight in Congress. The National Rifle Association strongly opposed the ban and has made not renewing it a priority. The association has also opposed the prohibition on people under a restraining order from buying a gun. A spokesman for the association, Andrew Arulanandam, did not return telephone calls today seeking comment. Bushmaster's principal owner and chairman, Richard Dyke, was the finance chairman of George W. Bush's campaign for the presidency in Maine in 1999. Mr. Dyke resigned as Mr. Bush's chief fund-raiser in Maine in July 1999 after a Los Angeles police officer sued Bushmaster as the maker of a gun that wounded him in a shootout with bank robbers. __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters

October 25, 2002, 03:36 PM	#3
Jeff White Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Kinmundy, IL, USA Posts: 1,397	Kristin...sorry, you're wrong Whatever it is, it's NOT a semi-automatic assault rifle. You all won that fight in 1994. While before that the definition might have been a bit vague, it's not now. You all had your definition codified into the United States Code. Can't say it's something that it's not. And by saying that it is an assault rifle, you are just admitting to the world that you settled for a definition that was cosmetic and meaningless. So the crowning achievement of the American gun control movement was meaningless and cosmetic? Come on..I want to hear you say it..... Jeff 143=T

October 25, 2002, 04:36 PM	#6
spacemanspiff Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2002 Location: alaska Posts: 3,498	sooo........ if i get a bushmaster that complies with the letter of the law, or any similar type weapon, it WONT be an assault weapon until its used to assault someone? "that is NOT a duck. true, it quacks like a duck, but its not a duck. true, it waddles like a duck, but its not a duck. true, it has the markings of a duck, but its not a duck. true, it has the dna of a duck, but its not a duck." ??????? :barf: :barf: :barf: tool - intolerance: "I don't want to be hostile. I don't want to be dismal. But I don't want to rot in an apathetic existance either. See I want to believe you, and I want to trust and I want to have faith to put away the dagger. But you lie, cheat, and steal. And yet I tolerate you. Veil of virtue hung to hide your method while I smile and laugh and dance and sing your praise and glory. Shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma as I smile and laugh and dance and sing your glory while you lie, cheat, and steal. How can I tolerate you. " __________________ "Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard

October 25, 2002, 05:16 PM	#7
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	As lendringser's sigline used to say: "Assault" is a verb, not a noun. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

October 25, 2002, 05:38 PM	#10
Monkeyleg Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2000 Posts: 4,625	"It complies with the letter of the law, but it is still an assault rifle..." They wrote the language of the law, and now they want to change it again. Bushmaster could put walnut stocks on their rifles and finish them in Royal Blue, but it wouldn't matter. As long as it's semi-auto (or ugly), it's an "assault rifle." Kristen Rand is an idiot, but an evil idiot. __________________ ACOG Scopes, EOTech Sights, Crimson Trace, LensAndLasers

October 25, 2002, 02:50 PM	#2
Kaboom Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2000 Location: North Mo. Posts: 640	For once they almost got it right. Any rifle that you are shot with is an assault rifle. About time that distinction was made.

October 25, 2002, 03:50 PM	#4
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,847	By the lights of Ms. Rand, and like minded others, anything that goes BANG is an "assault weapon". The mere facts of enacted legislation, or technical considerations that dictate otherwise are unimportant. Don't bother me with fact, when what passses for my mind is made up.

October 25, 2002, 03:56 PM	#5
RepublicThunderbolt Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 291	Moreover, it's not an "assault rifle" without select-fire capability. "Semi-auto Sturmgewehr" is an oxymoron. ______________ "The bullet of justice that destroys evil! How do you like that?" - Excel Saga

October 25, 2002, 05:20 PM	#8
Pizzagunner Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 102	Actually assault is a verb, not an adjective.

October 25, 2002, 05:43 PM	#11
RickD Junior member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,920	Minutia Time Ms Rand also mentions in another article that the Bushmaster still had certain traits in common with an "assault rifle" (why are they not using the term "assault weapon" anymore?) such as as pistol grip, which makes it easier "to shoot from the hip." She obviously has never bothered to compare rifles. It is far easier to "shoot from the hip" using a conventional rifle stock. The pistol grip may make it easier to shoot from under the armpit, but, why should one care? Rick

October 25, 2002, 05:43 PM	#12
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	Gotta watch out for those "mimic" features. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

October 25, 2002, 06:12 PM	#13
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,847	a likely answer to your question USAFNODAK: You asked: "When will the media start calling these lug nuts on their mis statements" The answer is, NEVER. Yesterday afternoon, I heard NPR refere to this Bushmaster rifle as simply a "semi-automatic rifle", which obviously it is, however later in the evening, it having been to good to last, they were back to the same old "assault rifle" song and dance. As I said above, most likely, the answer to your question is NEVER.

October 25, 2002, 06:12 PM	#14
M4A3 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2002 Location: Minnesota (YA-SHURE-YOU-BETCHA) Posts: 620	This talk is making my head hurt!! It's just a bunch of political mumbo jumbo jive talk. Assault is an act. So... I guess an "assault weapon" would be "a weapon that is desingned for assaulting somone or somthing". Are all of the AR-15's we own desinged for assaulting? YES...I think it's stupid to say "because it doesn't have a flash hider it's not an assault weapon". I don't even know whare I'm going with this. This is just a STUPID thing to talk about. __________________ M4A3 Carbine - The worlds most versatile, adaptable, and effective assault rifle. Caliber: 5.56mm NATO Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt Barrel length: 370 mm Rate of fire: 700 - 950 rounds per minute Maximum effective range: 360 m

October 25, 2002, 06:29 PM	#16
RickD Junior member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,920	I agree, SR. We should not be debating using their terms or arguments. We should not be using the term A-W, A-R, or whatever. Rick Cleaning My Homeland Defense Rifle

October 26, 2002, 12:25 AM	#17
SIGarmed Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2001 Posts: 450	Assault weapon? Its a dam "home defense rifle"! Whats wrong with those? __________________ california gun owner

October 27, 2002, 02:00 AM	#19
Torquemada Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: suburban Illinois Posts: 204	"Battery rifle" is correct. An "assault rifle" is one used to threaten someone with, not to actually shoot them. Although if you have consent of the shootee, it's neither. VPC = :barf: __________________ Ain't no sense worrying 'bout things you got control over, 'cause if you got control over 'em, ain't no sense in worrying. And there ain't no sense in worrying 'bout things you ain't got control over, 'cause if you ain't got control over 'em, ain't no sense in worrying. - Satchel Paige

October 27, 2002, 03:06 AM	#20
WilderBill Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 610	Another question I have that relates to this: Since every one of his attacks involved only a single shot, does this help us in that "they" can't cry about the terrible, devestating, unecessary, high rate of fire the Bushmaster has? Just a hopeful thought. __________________ I reserve the right to keep AND arm bears. Support those who support us.

October 27, 2002, 07:01 AM	#21
Tom B Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,836	Save your hi cap mags boys and girls as we won't see any sunsets in 04!

October 27, 2002, 02:29 PM	#22
ctdonath Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 1999 Posts: 1,904	Anyone surprised? New Jersy just declared 51 = 30, so it only logically follows that "isn't" = "is".