Are all pepper sprays equal?

[Charlie Golf]

Anybody have a favorite?

[Derius_T]

TERMINATOR is a good spray. It is 13.3% by volume habanaro pepper spay mixed with military grade CSX tear gas. Beautiful combo......

[alaric]

Fox 5.3 has a lot of supporters. Go to http://www.defensedevices.com

[Danindetroit]

Be very careful about pepper spray, and check your state's law on content, some contain CN, and pepper spray. I think in MI you are limited to only pepper, and 1/2% to 1 %. I have never looked it up but they issue pepper spray to Probation officers that is .5%. That's the wife got a .40.

[alaric]

Michigan allows 2% max concentration pepper (OC) spray. Fox 5.3 is legal in Michigan for us 'civilians'.

[Danindetroit]

Another chapter in the long list of how states don't care about LE emploees, until one dies.

Thank you for the info alric, I check out www.mi.gov for laws, is there a particular site or place where you get info, my wife does use a formulation that is fifferent from any of the other's that yo mention. She got it from www.galls.com, they have things for le, corrections,paramedic,firefighters, very neat site, and the mag has very good descriptions of products. TIA for any info.

[djw6611]

The two best sprays (in my opinion) are Fox Labs 5.3 and Sabre Red.

Percentage means nothing alone. You can have a 10% spray, but its 10% of what?

Fox Labs is only 2% but its 2% of pepper spray rated at 5.3 million SHUs

Sabre Red on the other hand is 10% of pepper spray rated at 2.0 million SHUs

In general higher percentages will work similiar to lower percentages for initial take down, only take longer to decontaminate.

Carry fox labs, you wont be disappointed. Just remember to replace at least once every 2 years (from date of purchase).

[Chieftan]

Charlie,

Stick with something that is 100% pepper spray (oleoresin capsicum) and stay away from combination sprays such as those with CS or CN.

DJW brings up some good points about percentages and there is no governing board that confirms these ratings.

I am an instructor-trainer in chemical restraint systems and have 24 years of law enforcement experience. I have been sprayed with a variety of mixtures and delivery systems and I didn't enjoy ANY of them.

You should also learn about decontamination procedures "just in case." I had more than one officer over the years whose kid or wife got hold of the spray and accidently hosed themselves down. BIG problem...especially if you don't know what to do.

Feel free to e-mail me if I can be of further assistance.

[Danindetroit]

Can I ask about the problems with cs or cn? TIA

[DT Guy]

It's not really that CN or CS have 'problems', per se----outside of the fact that a median lethal dosate does exist for them-----it's that when combined with OC you are simply complicating the clean-up procedures and, potentially, negating some of the effect of the OC.

I've been exposed on several occasions to OC, CN and CS. When OC is involved, you wouldn't want to 'dilute' it with anything else!


Just my .02,

Larry

[djw6611]

I agree with what DT said, adding "tear gas" (cn or cs), is not the best thing in a spray and likely doesnt make it anymore effective. It is more of a marketing gimick.

Tear gas is only an irritant, while OC (pepper spray) is an inflamatory. This means that tear gas will not work on a person who is on drugs or intoxicated because it relies soley on pain. Pepper spray should work to a certain degree on these individuals because the responce of the eyes (slamming shut) and the respatory system (coughing, choking) is involuntary.

The only two products I would trust which are a mix of pepper spray and tear gas are : "Freeze +P" and "Sabre".

But again, stick with either Fox Labs 5.3 or Sabre Red and you wont have any problems.

[Dusty Miller]

For a whole lot less money you can defend yourself with a spray bottle of ammonia.

[alaric]

is there a particular site or place where you get info

Try here

[DT Guy]

The problem is that ammonia can cause permanent injury to the eyes, and thus requires a higher level of justification to use. I'd imagine a good attorney could make ammonia into the eyes into 'heinous battery' or somesuch...


Larry

[djw6611]

not too mention ammonia isnt even close to as effective as a quality spray like fox labs is......

if $15 for a can of spray is too much to spend for a less-than-lethal defense tool I think it is time to start looking for a new job........

[mvpel]

A survey of 878 uses of CAP-STUN brand 5.5% law-enforcement-only pepper spray uses by West Virginia State Police found that it was minimally effective, ineffective, or totally ineffective nearly a third of the time.

This is a good thing to bear in mind when considering the use of 2% pepper spray as a defensive tool.

[mvpel]

:::

[DT Guy]

ANY pepper spray can fail. I've personally emptied a 1.8 Oz can of 2million shu spray into a person's face (wearing glasses, but I was able to see it running through his eyes) and then saw the person drive off, completely unimpaired.

Found out later he had 100+ arrests.

ALWAYS be ready for ANYTHING (OC, baton, firearm, howitzer) to fail, and have a plan B at the ready.


Larry

[djw6611]

You said:

"A survey of 878 uses of CAP-STUN brand 5.5% law-enforcement-only pepper spray uses by West Virginia State Police found that it was minimally effective, ineffective, or totally ineffective nearly a third of the time.

This is a good thing to bear in mind when considering the use of 2% pepper spray as a defensive tool."

Cap-Stun is not a highly used spray anymore, at least not in my area. But again you are focusing too much on the percentages. I think Capstun is 5.5% of 500,000 SHU Spray. While Fox Labs is 2% of 5,300,000 SHU Spray. Notice the extreme differance in the SHU (overall heat level). Thats a difference of close to 5 million SHU.

Comparing pepper spray based on percentages alone is kind of like saying a 115 grain bullet is better than a 95 grain bullet. You have to ask yourself, 115 grain of what? JHP or FMJ? You see a 115 grain FMJ bullet may actually be less effective than a 95 grain JHP in terms of stopping power. The same holds true for OC Spray. A 10% 500,000 SHU spray may actually be less effective than a 2% 5,300,000 spray. See what I mean?

Also keep in mind that many police departments use 'weaker' sprays for a number of reasons:
1) Liability
2) Decon Time - Dont want to babysit a prisoner for 2 hours while they decon from the spray
3) For law enforcement, pepper spray is just one tool on the use-of-force spectrum. In other words if the spray fails, they can move up to say ASP baton strikes or deadly force if the situation warrents.

So when people say, this spray is law enforcement strength or something like that you know it is complete BS because as a whole police use weaker sprays. (at least thats how it is here in Rhode Island. An employee at a local police supply store told me that the only agency in RI that uses Sabre Red is the ACI (state prison) because it is "over kill")

The problem with the pepper spray industry is that it is highly unregulated. So people use a cheap spray and are disappointed with its results. Use sabre red of fox labs and you will probably get about 80% to 90% effectiveness if you land a good hit on their face. But like anything else you had better have a backup if it doesnt work or at least a good pair of running shoes

[mvpel]

The problem with being disappointed with the results of your choice in pepper spray is that you might suddenly find yourself in deep doo-doo at that moment of discovery, having just pissed off your assailant even further.

[mikikanazawa]

When I was a kid I had a job policing brass at a shooting range near my house. On weekends they had self-defense courses, and the most popular was the "tear gas" course. It was an outdoor range, and due to the prevalent gusty winds of the city, I got decent facefuls of every major pepper/tear spray on the market. The one I most remember? "PUNCH." There is also "PUNCH II," but I don't know the chemistry difference aside from the II version being foamy.

[Tim R]

The biggest problem I've seen with pepper useage is everyone gets it. No matter how hard you try you still end up with a snoot full. If you have never been through being sprayed and you get some coming your way, do you know what it does to you?

Most people see themselves spraying and running....well Sir like I said, your'e going to be running with a strong possiblity taking some spray along with you.

[djw6611]

Good point. When I heard good things about fox labs I bought 2 cans. One to carry and one to practice with. I did this to become familiar with the spray pattern, amount of spray, and how it effects me.

Well needless to say I caught a good whiff of it while spraying it (in my enclosed garage, a windy condition could have been worse) and I damn near puked! (not joking). At least I know what it does to me when I accidentally inhale some over spray, although catching a hit to the face/eyes is a whole different story.

[Line Rider]

Freeze + P is all I carry.

[esldude]

I have heard from trainers, that dark skinned people like African Americans, Indians and Arabs etc. aren't nearly as effected by pepper spray as lighter skinned Caucasians and Hispanics? Anyone know if there is any truth to this.