The NEW Smith & Wesson 'Military and Police'

jonathon · July 31, 2005, 07:10 PM

Taken from

http://www.ambackforum.com/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0

Quote:

Charlie Petty

Early this month I went to S&W and was able to study and shoot their new M&P pistol. It is not a "super gun" as some are saying but is a big evolutionary step in polymer frame pistols.

Click here for larger image.

Click here for larger image.

It is a full size DA only polymer frame pistol that is going to be available in .40 S&W first and then 9mm later this year. There will also be compact versions, a .357 SIG and eventually a .45 at later dates.

It is going to be the cover story for the premiere issue of American Cop so I'm not going to put everyting here... we gotta sell magazines Michael... but here are some highlights...

The most noticeable feature is a great improvement in grips. The SW 99 had three interchangeable backstraps but this one has three interchangeable grip panels that also cover the sides and markedly change the feel of the grips. The medium and large panels have a noticeable palm swell and a rubber overmould. They can be changed by the user in a matter of seconds without tools.

The trigger is exceptional and has some pretty clever engineering. It is DAO at around 7 lb. but it feels like a good revolver more than anything. The takeup is consistent without stacking.

One of the drawbacks of many polymer pistols is that they require you to pull the trigger to field strip. Part of the neat stuff with the trigger mechanism is a sear release that can only be operated with the slide locked open. There is a lever that is easily reached through the ejection port that releases tension on the sear. Then you turn the external takedown latch and the slide can be removed.

After the visit I was able to get a prototype pistol for more extensive testing and it has done quite well. Accuracy was under 3" which is good for a service pistol and the trigger makes it easy to shoot well. I've shot well over 1000 rounds without a functional malfunction. There have been a couple of light hits on primers but S&W has already made a change in the striker to correct that.

There are some design features that make the frame much more rigid than other polymer guns and seem to have a very positive effect on perceived recoil. Subjectively I think recoil is a bit less than comparable polymer guns of similar weight firing the same ammo. It is a matter of opinion but I think recoil is very moderate for a 27 ounce gun.

It has an ambidextrous slide stop and the magzine catch is reversible by the user if needed. Magazine capacity is 15 rounds in .40 and 17 in 9mm.

I read this, and if it is %100 correct, I want one

just curious on the price...

Marko Kloos · July 31, 2005, 08:03 PM

I may be a crusty traditionalist, but putting the hallowed name of "Military & Police" on a plastic fancy flatgun is heresy.

CarbineCaleb · July 31, 2005, 08:13 PM

Quote:

putting the hallowed name of "Military & Police" on a plastic fancy flatgun is heresy

Maybe... if we want to be pessimistic, I suppose it could be that S&W is trying to cash in on the value of a very successful brand name, in order to elevate a substandard offering.

On the other hand, it could mean that S&W has a lot of confidence in this new offering... as with the Beretta PX4, I will be quite curious to try these new tupperware products out - to me, any new product is an opportunity for improvement. If the designers turn out to miss the mark, you just pass it over - nothing lost.

9mm1033 · July 31, 2005, 08:36 PM

I talked to a S&W rep at a gun dealer showing and he said they (S&W) were going to release to newest-best designed police auto pistol. I'm assuming this one in question is that gun. He was well aware of many departments going to Glock and Sig. Good luck to the built in the US of A police auto-pistol.

Sir William · July 31, 2005, 08:36 PM

I don't like it. It is ugly, if you threw a Essex slide on a Glock, there is the S&W M&P. 7lbs DA trigger is going to be a problem in USA LE sales, I guess a NY trigger will be forthcoming. I have heard rumours of FTFs because of the light primer strikes. The S&W R&D folks have put every gadget mount possible on the frame. HOLO, Weaver and other mouts can be drilled and tapped onto the cast slides. Price rumours are over $1,000.00. I don't like it.

jonathon · July 31, 2005, 08:53 PM

I highly doubt it will be over $500. S&W needs to compete, and they aren't dumb.

CarbineCaleb · July 31, 2005, 08:54 PM

S&W recently picked up Ernest Langdon as Director of Federal Law Enforcement and Military Sales. I guess the introduction of the new M&P will be his first big test there - good luck, Ernest!

Half-Price Assassin · July 31, 2005, 08:59 PM

why do American guns suck so bad......

50 years ago, this country made the finest weapons in the world, now in 2005 we are so far behind the Germans, and Belgians, i love this country, and would love to buy American, but i just cant make myself.

yuck, it looks like a "prettier", sigma, but 4-times the price???? you have to be kidding me, i might buy one if it was $200, and not a penny more.

CarbineCaleb · July 31, 2005, 09:26 PM

Hey, it's Tupperware, let's look at the competition:

The Stook · July 31, 2005, 09:35 PM

Okay, one thing. Opinions are opinions, so if you dont like it oh well. But the price point is said to be $100 dollars less msrp than the competition. This most likely means Glock which means a MSRP of $400-500. This is all speculation but $1000 is ridick, it is not going to be that high.

sm · July 31, 2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

I may be a crusty traditionalist, but putting the hallowed name of "Military & Police" on a plastic fancy flatgun is heresy.

+ 1

IIRC The Original M&P has been around since the 1890's ...
...Nope, sorry man - I do not see this new blasphemious offering being around 100+ yrs from now.

The Original M&P will still be sought after, admired, collected, coveted, cherished...oh and they will still work too.

CougarRed · July 31, 2005, 10:31 PM

Half Price Assassin

Sorry to disappoint you, but Smith & Wesson, Kahr, Ruger, Kimber et al make outstanding handguns.

Handy · July 31, 2005, 10:45 PM

Quote:

HOLO, Weaver and other mouts can be drilled and tapped onto the cast slides.

Source, please? S&W doesn't use castings for frames, so I'd be mightily surprised if they suddenly started using them for slides. Sir William sounds like he has a $1000 axe to grind.

Personally, I think it is a nice looking piece, striking a good balance between various trends without the Frankenstein looks of the XD or the bizzare shape of the Steyr.

If the execution is sound and price competitive (as all S&W prices are), I don't see the downside. Seems like a nice gun that has a low bore, ambi controls and the same trigger set-up as all the most popular guns have featured of late. Good job, S&W.

GaryTx · July 31, 2005, 10:56 PM

I don't care what the price is...that thing is just plain ugly!

IanS · July 31, 2005, 11:01 PM

I generally like it except the wavy lines on the grip. Couple of years from now I could consider getting one. But yech. :barf: I hate the way the grip looks. So probably not.

XavierBreath · July 31, 2005, 11:11 PM

Military & Police

Metal & Plastic :barf:

clu · July 31, 2005, 11:24 PM

Doesnt seem like a bad design, the model shown is probably pre production the only thing I dislike is the "standard" slide relief cuts, on the sides of the slide. It seems like almost all new designs from every manufacuturer are sporting the same cosmetic relief cuts on the sides of the slide.

Sir William · July 31, 2005, 11:54 PM

Actually, I do stand corrected in the MSRP. Rumours are saying, cast slide, polymer with MIM reinforced frame, MIM action and unknown barrel. Generic Novak sights standard. Price? $400.00. I can see that. They could go less in large quantity contracts. I still don't like it. Ugly.

Steelharp · August 1, 2005, 12:10 AM

Ugly? Nah; nothing these days is going to be as gorgeous as days gone by, though. Thank goodness we still have them. I love my Colts, but I carry my Glock. This looks like a reasonably comfortable handful. Worth an actual try, at least. If it does what it should (launch the bullets out the tube accurately and reliably), I would imagine it will find a market.

IanS · August 1, 2005, 12:42 AM

Yeah, it isn't attractive compared to the original M&P or like a BHP. But it isn't quite the jolt to the system like the first time I ever saw the 1st Gen Glock 17 or the first time I saw an HS2000 (XD).

stevelyn · August 1, 2005, 06:32 AM

Looks like a Smeg.....er Sigma with a new and improved sugar coating and a tailfin. :barf:

Zekewolf · August 1, 2005, 08:18 AM

Until/unless the so-called "new" S&W openly disavows their marriage with the Klinton administration, they won't get a penny of my not-so-hard-to-earn money.

Grayrider · August 1, 2005, 08:23 AM

Hmm...reminds me a lot of a Taurus 24/7. Seems backwards though, S&W copying Taurus. Surely not.

Not to bash the 24/7. I have one in 45 and love it. For what its worth the M&P looks nice to me as far as polymer pistols go. Certainly better looking than a Sigma.

GR

Boats · August 1, 2005, 08:59 AM

I think that since this piece has had input into the details of the trigger pull from the likes of Miculek, Doug Koenig, and Ernest Langdon, it probably has a leg up before it ever hits the market.

TX_RGR · August 1, 2005, 09:52 AM

Since it's for the military and police, I am guessing it won't have the "we need to protect you and others from yourself" internal lock?

Just remember, if S and W and the government have their way, you will have a biometric scanner attached to your weapon that can be locked by law enforcement on demand. **** them and their ugly crappy pistol. :barf:

July 31, 2005, 08:03 PM	#2
Marko Kloos Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Location: Enfield, NH Posts: 5,521	I may be a crusty traditionalist, but putting the hallowed name of "Military & Police" on a plastic fancy flatgun is heresy. __________________ "The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." --A.E. Van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher the munchkin wrangler.

July 31, 2005, 08:36 PM	#4
9mm1033 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2005 Location: A big city with far too many cars and people. Posts: 932	I talked to a S&W rep at a gun dealer showing and he said they (S&W) were going to release to newest-best designed police auto pistol. I'm assuming this one in question is that gun. He was well aware of many departments going to Glock and Sig. Good luck to the built in the US of A police auto-pistol. __________________ No one reads or cares what is written in ones signature box. So I'm not writing anything worth reading or remembering.

July 31, 2005, 08:53 PM	#6
jonathon Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Washougal, Washington. YEHAW! Posts: 1,872	I highly doubt it will be over $500. S&W needs to compete, and they aren't dumb. __________________ Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good More CZ M52 info than you can shake a stick at!

July 31, 2005, 08:54 PM	#7
CarbineCaleb Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2004 Posts: 2,745	S&W recently picked up Ernest Langdon as Director of Federal Law Enforcement and Military Sales. I guess the introduction of the new M&P will be his first big test there - good luck, Ernest! __________________ “Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think.” Niels Bohr

July 31, 2005, 08:59 PM	#8
Half-Price Assassin Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2005 Location: Oh Posts: 602	why do American guns suck so bad...... 50 years ago, this country made the finest weapons in the world, now in 2005 we are so far behind the Germans, and Belgians, i love this country, and would love to buy American, but i just cant make myself. yuck, it looks like a "prettier", sigma, but 4-times the price???? you have to be kidding me, i might buy one if it was $200, and not a penny more. __________________ Bernhard Goetz Real American Hero HK Marketing Department's new slogan "HK. Because you suck. And we HATE you"

July 31, 2005, 08:36 PM	#5
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	I don't like it. It is ugly, if you threw a Essex slide on a Glock, there is the S&W M&P. 7lbs DA trigger is going to be a problem in USA LE sales, I guess a NY trigger will be forthcoming. I have heard rumours of FTFs because of the light primer strikes. The S&W R&D folks have put every gadget mount possible on the frame. HOLO, Weaver and other mouts can be drilled and tapped onto the cast slides. Price rumours are over $1,000.00. I don't like it.

July 31, 2005, 09:35 PM	#10
The Stook Member Join Date: July 7, 2005 Posts: 36	Okay, one thing. Opinions are opinions, so if you dont like it oh well. But the price point is said to be $100 dollars less msrp than the competition. This most likely means Glock which means a MSRP of $400-500. This is all speculation but $1000 is ridick, it is not going to be that high.

July 31, 2005, 10:31 PM	#12
CougarRed Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 99	Half Price Assassin Sorry to disappoint you, but Smith & Wesson, Kahr, Ruger, Kimber et al make outstanding handguns.

July 31, 2005, 10:56 PM	#14
GaryTx Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Area Posts: 2	Ugly I don't care what the price is...that thing is just plain ugly!

July 31, 2005, 11:01 PM	#15
IanS Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,632	I generally like it except the wavy lines on the grip. Couple of years from now I could consider getting one. But yech. :barf: I hate the way the grip looks. So probably not.

July 31, 2005, 11:11 PM	#16
XavierBreath Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2002 Location: North Louisiana Posts: 2,800	M&Ps Military & Police Metal & Plastic :barf: __________________ Xavier's Blog

July 31, 2005, 11:54 PM	#18
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	Actually, I do stand corrected in the MSRP. Rumours are saying, cast slide, polymer with MIM reinforced frame, MIM action and unknown barrel. Generic Novak sights standard. Price? $400.00. I can see that. They could go less in large quantity contracts. I still don't like it. Ugly.

August 1, 2005, 12:10 AM	#19
Steelharp Member Join Date: June 19, 2001 Location: Gallatin, TN Posts: 27	Ugly? Nah; nothing these days is going to be as gorgeous as days gone by, though. Thank goodness we still have them. I love my Colts, but I carry my Glock. This looks like a reasonably comfortable handful. Worth an actual try, at least. If it does what it should (launch the bullets out the tube accurately and reliably), I would imagine it will find a market. __________________ Mikey D...

August 1, 2005, 12:42 AM	#20
IanS Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,632	Yeah, it isn't attractive compared to the original M&P or like a BHP. But it isn't quite the jolt to the system like the first time I ever saw the 1st Gen Glock 17 or the first time I saw an HS2000 (XD).

August 1, 2005, 06:32 AM	#21
stevelyn Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Fairbanksan in exile to Aleutian Hell Posts: 2,655	Looks like a Smeg.....er Sigma with a new and improved sugar coating and a tailfin. :barf: __________________ Stop Allowing Our Schools To Be Soft Targets! http://fastersaveslives.org/ East Moose. Wear Wolf.

August 1, 2005, 08:18 AM	#22
Zekewolf Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2005 Posts: 886	Until/unless the so-called "new" S&W openly disavows their marriage with the Klinton administration, they won't get a penny of my not-so-hard-to-earn money.

August 1, 2005, 08:23 AM	#23
Grayrider Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2002 Posts: 138	Hmm...reminds me a lot of a Taurus 24/7. Seems backwards though, S&W copying Taurus. Surely not. Not to bash the 24/7. I have one in 45 and love it. For what its worth the M&P looks nice to me as far as polymer pistols go. Certainly better looking than a Sigma. GR

August 1, 2005, 08:59 AM	#24
Boats Junior member Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 964	I think that since this piece has had input into the details of the trigger pull from the likes of Miculek, Doug Koenig, and Ernest Langdon, it probably has a leg up before it ever hits the market.

August 1, 2005, 09:52 AM	#25
TX_RGR Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2004 Posts: 485	Since it's for the military and police, I am guessing it won't have the "we need to protect you and others from yourself" internal lock? Just remember, if S and W and the government have their way, you will have a biometric scanner attached to your weapon that can be locked by law enforcement on demand. **** them and their ugly crappy pistol. :barf: