First shotgun/Slug experience and Knoxx SpecOps Review - fairly long

[cdc]

I must first pre-frame this review of the Remington 870 I put together and the Knoxx SpecOps stock. I am use to handguns (mainly semi-autos) and this is the first time I have fired a shotgun. I have learned much from this forum, hopefully I can give back some useful info. Alrighty, I have been building this 870 tactical shotgun for about 2 months and finally got to shoot it. I shot 42 slugs across 2 hours through the bad boy and called it a day. I started to get tired and the range was closing soon. By the way, at this range I can only shoot slugs at still targets. For a frame of reference I am 38 yrs old, 5'-11" and 160lbs, not a big guy. Here is the 870 shotty:



Breakdown of the 870: Remington 870 Express Magnum, 18" ported VangComp (VCS) Smoothbore - fixed Imp. Cyl. Choke barrel., ATN Ultra Digital Reflex Sight (I think I am going to replace with an Eotech), Leopold QI weaver mount, Trigger job with about 3.5 - 4 pound pull, TacStar two round extension and mag/barrel clamp, Knoxx SpecOps stock with a Limbsaver recoil pad installed. Hogue overmolded tactical forend and Hogue handall grip on the SpecOps stock. I did also work on the action and installed a VangComp SS mag follower.

First Impression of the 870 package: This is not a toy! With slugs, especially the 1600+ feet/sec slugs this seems/feels like it would be a big game long gun. I am thinking bear, buffalo, huge deer, wild boar, slugs cannot/should not be used in a domestic enviroment for HD. Will for sure penetrate way too much. The 870 was flawless and smooth in execution. The sighting system or reflex sights were sweet but I think I am going to plunk down the cash to step up to an Eotech or similar quality (any suggestions would be welcomed). The whole experience was kind of fun. I say kind of fun because I am just not used to the explosiveness in a weapon that I experienced earlier today. I took my time and fired off about 30 rounds standing (freehand) of three different brand slugs. It was almost no use trying to figure out how accurate the ammo was to the gun. I was not dead on and I knew it. The Winchester slugs at 1600 ft/sec was rough, no way am I ready for the magnum version! I was using "25 yard bullseye slow fire B-16 targets" (pics below of two targets). All the ammo seemed pretty accurate, I was getting small groupings. This is an extremely accurate slug gun, I am assuming it is the VangComp barrel helping. I know for a fact that most if not all the inaccuracy was me, the shooter. Below is two targets toward the end of the session I kept, wife called and asked to see them.



The target to the left is bench rested. 5 rounds of Remington Managed recoil slugger 1oz. rifled slugs. The target to the right is standing freehand 7 rounds of Wolf 1oz. rifled power slugs. Again, all of the inaccuracy is for sure me, not the ammo. For a reference if you are not familar with the B-16 target, the outer black #8 ring is 5" edge to edge or 5" in diameter. The targets are on 8" x 11" paper. All shots were aimed dead center of the target.

Knoxx SpecOps stock with Limbsaver recoil pad: I am soooo glad I went to the extreme I did with adding a Limbsaver recoil pad to the SpecOps stock. No bruise, no hickeys, no marks, no pain! I have read so many times that slugs through a 12ga.= punishment period. There were only a few people around me at the range. When they realized I was shooting 12ga slugs I think they actually felt sorry for me...lol I must say that even though I experienced no pain from shooting the slugs, there is recoil. That video that Knoxx has on their website is of a guy that is probably 90lbs + heavier then me and is built stronger then me. No pain but it still felt like I was shooting an elephant gun!!!!!! I am sure that shooting slugs from a stock pump shotgun would be extremely punishing, probably to the point of me not wanting to shoot the gun. Elephant gun + extreme pain= PASS for me. Bottom Line (my opinion of course), the Knoxx SpecOps stock with Limbsaver recoil pad ROCKS, no if and or buts, just ROCKS!!!!




Hopefully the info above assisted someone. I have already signed up for a tactical shotgun course in December (One whole day, 300 rounds birdshot!!!!) in Sonoma. If anyone has used and really likes a specific Reflex Holographic sight (like the ATN I have) on a shotgun please let me know!

Peace - cdc

[dangaa]

thanx for the review cant wait to put mine on and have some fun!

[CaCrusin]

the OKO Reflex Sight with the 4 MOA dot. It is bright and easy to use. I have four of them and love them. Check them out at www.brownells.com.

[Brother Jim]

I have their COPstock and agree that it really is a lifesaver, especially when shooting slugs. As for sights, I never thought to mount one on a shotgun but have an EOTech for my bushmaster. If you are interested in it let me know.

[email protected]

[cdc]

Just spoke to ATN tech support, they knew exactly what I was experiencing. Michael at their tech support told me to stretch out the battery spring on the sight and that will fix my problem. He said that it was not making proper contact.

I am going to do as he says. I am still in the market for another reflex sight, going to put it on a second 870. I have an older 870 Express (pre-synthetic trigger group) that I am going to put together as soon as the title is transfered.

cdc

[cdc]

Dangaa, please report back your results with slugs and SpecOps stock without the Limbsaver. FYI, the higher powered slugs pack a PUNCH!

cdc

[cdc]

The SpecOps is a very cool product, 2 thumbs up! I do have two questions:

1) Forgot to ask when I purchased the SpecOps from you: Is there and maintanance needed for the SpecOps stock?

2) When is the comb riser attachment going to be available??? I don't want to Jimmy Rig something, so give it up dude!

Thanks,

cdc

[mec]

Sitting on the ground with no backrest, mine will do this consistently with ww or remington foster slugs- 50 yards.

The double ought buck didn't make it through the inside door panel but the slug, shot at an angle went through the door, tore up the driver's seat and broke up with one segment making a hole in the off side wheel well and the other found on the floor of the van.

[cdc]

Yep, from my recent outing, slugs from a shotgun can be very accurate. I was shooting 25 yards and I was getting sub 3" groups without resting the gun. I am sure the gun and ammo is capable of shooting way better. The weight of the gun (and not being use to it) and recoil shock was tiring me. And yes slugs from a shotgun seem extremely powerful. I am still trying to get the lead out of the barrel!!!!!

Mec, I cannot see your stock so I am assuming it is a standard factory type stock. Didn't shooting those slugs hurt like hell?

cdc

[mec]

YES
That's why I either shoot it standing up or sitting on the ground with no brace.

[CaCrusin]

For Ca Crusin:
The SpecOps is a very cool product, 2 thumbs up! I do have two questions:

1) Forgot to ask when I purchased the SpecOps from you: Is there and maintanance needed for the SpecOps stock?

2) When is the comb riser attachment going to be available??? I don't want to Jimmy Rig something, so give it up dude!

Thanks,

cdc

1) Unless you dump your shotgun in the ocean or a swamp, there really isn't much to maintain. If the above should happen, wash the stock throroughly with clean water and blow dry with compressed air. A SMALL amount of light lubricant may be applied to the area around the slide, but this should not be required for most users...that means most of you...yes, I mean all ya'all.

2) You are speaking out of school on this. Loose lips sink ships.

[nin1974]

did you have to grind the Limbsaver Recoil Pad??? Also how much was it?

[cdc]

Yes, the Limbsaver recoil pad needs to be fitted, I hand sanded mine. $32 shipped, purchased from Ebay.

cdc

[Ricky B]

Well, no wonder you're so concerned about recoil with your 391! Based on my personal experience, which is not extensive but nonetheless relevant here, I have found that *aiming* a shotgun is a wonderful way to develop a flinch. I discovered this while patterning my Rem 1100 with target loads. After a handful of shells, I discovered that I was starting to fear the recoil while I was trying to aim at the mark on the patterning paper. Normally, I either barely feel the recoil or don't even notice it while shooting at clays, but then I am pointing the gun at a moving target, looking at tracking it, not aiming, and certainly not pondering when I am going to pull the trigger. I found that mounting the gun and smoothing pointing to the aiming point on the patterning paper and promptly pulling the trigger was much less disconcerting than standing there, making sure it was aimed correctly, and then pulling the trigger.

What school in Sonoma are you looking at?

--Rick

[cdc]

Hi Rick, I would have to get back to you on the school, paperwork not with me. The instructor I was told, is a swat tactical instructor. I was told by a co-worker that has attended his classes/workshops that he is very good. I signed up for the 12/10/2005 all day tactical shotgun workshop.

When I shot three rounds of trap with the different guns with 1oz, 3 dram, 7 1/2 shot loads, I did not have a problem flinching or with recoil. Even though it was clear that the guns did not fit me. No where remotely close to the recoil pressure of slugs. For the next three days my shoulder cup was tender though. So, aside from making sure the gun will fit as perfectly as possible, I will take James Russell's advise. James Russell advises in his book "Trap Shooting Secrets" to basically eliminate as much recoil as possible. I can clearly see the benifits from his advise.

So as soon as I pick up the gun, I will do a test of fit, then send the stock to Gra-Coil to install their Absorber unit and fully adjustable butt plate. This will ensure the highest level of recoil management/comfort level and insure that the gun can be easily fitted to me by a fitter if necessary.

I agree with you regarding aiming vs quickly tracking then firing off the round. Completely different experience.

Chris

[cdc]

Where I live (N. Ca.), none of the surrounding clubs allow "folding" stocks. The SpecOps stock is not a folding stock.

[CaCrusin]

The SpecOps and COPstock Folder Stocks are legal iin al 50 states. Some sporting clubs have rules that prohibit certain types of guns or stocks due to prejudices or arrogance.

[cdc]

Willfreund, where in California can you shoot buckshot at a range? I have not been able to find one locally to me.

If a range (indoor or outdoor) allows slugs and buckshot I wouldn't worry about it. I would not say that shooting slugs is louder then some of the big bore handguns or rifles, I would not worry about that. The 870 tactical I have (see picture) when shooting slugs is not really loud like sharp, more like a boom. Hard to explain the sound. What I meant in the previous posts is that slugs out of a shotgun is powerful. Nothing even remotely close to my .45 ACP 1911A1. With the setup I have put together there is no pain at all when shooting slugs, not even the 1600 ft. per second Winchester Foster slugs. But dude, when I fired the dang gun it felt like I was shooting a cannon! No pain, but the recoil shockwave is still there. Then try it benchrested. There were clay shooters to the left of me with handguns and were feeling sorry for me..lmao

I am not so sure that shooting slugs at a 25 yard indoor range is a good idea. Check with the indoor range again, does not feel right to me. Just go out and try it, foster (rifled) slugs are fairly inexpensive. Oops, rifled slugs for a smoothbore that is. One thing though, if you are new to shotguns, I would advise against starting shooting it with slugs. Start with birdshot first then after you are used to the gun then work your way up to heavier loads. One handed slug shooting would not be what I would call fun by any stretch. Also Federal, Remington and other ammo manufacturers produce lower recoil slugs in the 1200 ft or so per second range.

cdc

[nin1974]

here's a link to pics of my 870p MAX with my KNOXX SpecOp Stock
http://sigforum.com/groupee/forums/a...35/m/295101883