Another "zero-tolerance" excess

[jimpeel]

leave yourself a clear path to the vomitorium for this one.

From the Colorado Springs Gazette (11-20-99)

Note how she is accepting of the innocent being punished! What an automaton!
http://www.gazette.com/archive/99-11-20/daily/top1.html

[4V50 Gary]

Folding pocket knives is hardly a weapon of mass destruction. The administrators seemed to have confused the letter of the law (no weapons) with spirit of the law (it's a 2 1/2" folding pocket knife, not an 8" Bowie). Pity the Boy Scout who is prepared.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

[ChrisL]

The replies of the child and mother are indeed spooky. I mean, c'mon people, THINK!!

Alas, a critical skill set aside in the midst of PCsheeplethink hysteria..

They found the pocket knife in the first aid kit in her car, not even on her person. Wow..



[This message has been edited by ChrisL (edited November 22, 1999).]

[Christopher II]

Okay, I've been lurking here for a while, and this travesty just pulled me out of my shell.

Quote: "Sometimes innocent people have to be punished, so something like Columbine doesn't happen again," Golden said...

Sigh. For once in my life, words fail me.


Later, with regrets,
Chris

[Mal H]

I guess I don't see the problem. We have such a huge number of honest honor students with todays educational system, what's wrong with stigmatizing one of them and making her a criminal and an example for others, even if only temporarily. After all she did have a knife within 2 or 3 hundreds yards of her person. Even though she may need the knife to cut a fellow students seat belt to free them from a flaming car, having it on school grounds is a sin and just cannot be tolerated. It's a good thing she doesn't knit, she may have gotten several more days suspension.

[CassidyGT]

ChrisL- I agree the kid and her Mom's reply were almost the worst thing about the article. The law is so poorly written that I can hardly believe that it exists in its current form.

What is happening to our society?

[Oatka]

I just dropped those Colorado folks a note on what this says about the intelligence level of their school officials, and congratulated them on successfully robotizing the student population as well as
the parents. I would have been down to the school foaming at the mouth. Long odds to be sure, but she could have used that knife to cut her seat belt and flee a wreck before she burned or bled to death.

You can reach the Gazette at [email protected].

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If you can't fight City Hall, at least defecate on the steps.

[Coinneach]

Count on the GT to cut loose with a blistering editorial in the next couple of days. They're more libertarian than they'd like to admit, and the publisher, Dan Njegomir, has absolutely zero tolerance for zero-tolerance policies like this.

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"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.

[Rich Lucibella]

Given the Mother's comments, I'm just glad the poor kid isn't being home schooled!
Rich

[DC]

The abject lunacy and reeking hypocrasy of this is truly awe-inspiring.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>School officials reduced her suspension from the
mandatory five days to three days because of the
circumstances, Golden said. The principal even
contacted district administrators about her case, but
Golden was told they did not want to bend the rules.[/quote]

So...its wrong to punish her, they know its wrong to punish her, they reduced the mandatory punishment and then say they have to punish because they don't want to bend rules. My God...they have and practice conflicting hypocrasies all at the same instant!!



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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

[jimpeel]

My letter to the editor:

Dear Sirs,

What are we doing to our kids!?

Upon reading of the incident at Mitchell High School I was aghast at the student’s response to her suspension for a 2-1/2 inch pocket knife that wasn’t even on or near her person.

"Sometimes innocent people have to be punished, so something like Columbine doesn't happen again" stated Sonya Golden. What kind of thinking is that? How have we instilled in our young that it is acceptable to punish the innocent? That it is EVER acceptable to punish the innocent? What kind of automatons are we turning out of our schools?

The fact that the knife was not in an accessible place or on or near her person seems to have no impact on the administrators of this “justice”. The fact that the knife is there as a tool and not a weapon matters not a whit. That it was there with the full knowledge and consent of her mother was of no consequence.

God help the person sitting there in their burning car looking into the eyes of Sonya Golden standing there helpless for the lack of a knife to free them from their seat belt. God help us all for we surely have become insane.

[Dennis]

I'm reminded of my German friends who frequently attempt to justify governmental stupidity and tyranny by saying, "But it's a LAW!"

In the struggle against stupidity,
even the Gods struggle in vain.
--- Konrad Adenauer (& perhaps others...)

[RickD]

"Golden was pulled out of Advanced Placement English class Friday and asked if her car could be searched."

And the answer is...."NO!!!"

A 2.5 inch folding knife? Heck, what about the rest of the contents of her first-aid kit? Alcohol wipes? She's lucky she ain't in the big house.

Rick

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"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788

[Cpt. John Park]

I am stunned.

The enemy is fighting with psychological warfare. And they are fighting not against us, but against our children.

Just when I think we have a chance to win this thing peacefully, something like this snaps me back to reality.

We home school. I live in a nice, rural, conservative town. But I do not dare let me children be brainwashed by this kind of thinking.

The actions of the administration were reprehensible, but the utterly complacent attitude of the victim is what really gets me.

God save us.

JP

[Ulfilas]

Seems like our priorities are totally whacked out. We talk about standards, yet our educational system--talking about what the kids actually learn in terms of subject matter--is among the lowest of the literate world (but we're #1 in self-esteem, yay ).

Thank you, New Left...

jth

Want to really annoy a liberal?
Work really hard, and get really rich

[Paul Revere]

When I was in high school I used to carry one of my Dad's fishing knives in my pocket (which Dad did not know I had). One day in gym class upon returning to my locker, I noticed that the knife was missing, the locker had been broken into, and a kid a couple of lockers down had a easily recognizable bulge in his pocket resembling my Dad's fishing knife.

I confronted the kid and demanded that he give my knife back. He denied everything and we began a fight which soon got the attention of one of the gym coaches. We were both sent to the Dean's office where I repeatedly demanded my Dad's knife back.

Long story short...my Dad had to come to school, but we got his knife back...and he let me keep it. Neither one of us kids were disciplined.

[Ed Brunner]

Sail on, Ship of Fools. How xxxxing stupid can people be? There is absolutely no limit! I have long since given up on trying to make sense of this stuff.
She had her car searched because a dog liked or disliked the way her car smelled???
And kicked out of school for a deadly weapon that she had no access to???
What other horrible weapons were secreted throughout the car??
Stabbed with a screwdriver?? Beaten to a pulp with a lug wrench?? Run over by an Accura Legend??
Absolutely no limit.
The big mystery is why do people put up with this xxxxxxx stuff?

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Better days to be,

Ed

[Hal]

From the front page:

April 19, 2047

Student 12479NU32 was suspended from the cryo-learning center's President Chelsea Clinton-Yang wing yesterday and removed from deep cryo-sleep-learning. Cryo-learning, the practice of placing 4 year olds in a state of near absolute zero until they reach the age of 18, has been an accepted form of safe teaching since the turn of the century. Student 12479NU32 was reported to have sustained a 30 second erection, and in strict application of the law, which states that anything looking knife-like in appearance can be considered a violation. He faces felony charges and will be arraigned May 1st.

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CCW for Ohio action site.
http://www.ofcc.net
Do what you C.A.N.

http://thematrix.acmecity.com/digital/237/cansite/can.html

[Mike in VA]

FWIW, I called a buddy who lives there, and He said it isn't the liberal weenies that are pushing this silliness, but the conservatives. This guy's politics are more scattered than mine, he's pretty much of a analytical thinker with no particular use for the far left or far right, so I tend to trust his opinion. Still, anyone else from out that way care to comment on who's really pushing this stupidity? M2

[Futo Inu]

I agree with Christopher II. Good to hear from ya.

Now, the most telling thing about the "no-tolerance" policy is the clear conflict of words and actions. Observe:

"Colorado Springs School District 11 has a zero-tolerance policy on weapons that requires suspension or expulsion for any violation." followed by other rhetoric about making no exceptions for good students, etc.

Then later: "School officials reduced her suspension from the MANDATORY five days to three days because of the circumstances, Golden said." (emphasis mine).

HUH? If it's mandatory, but was reduced anyway, then clearly the zero-tolerance policy is not being enforced. Clearly discretion is being applied because she is such a good student and the violation is so incredibly weak. So, as long as they're actually engaging their brain and violating their own policy, why can't they extend to the common sense to an appropriate punishment (here, absolutely nothing)?

[Coinneach]

From today's Gazelle:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
OUR VIEW: Near-zero logic?
Sweeping rules on weapons in school leave
little room for common sense

As you'll glean from a glimpse at today's Tell it to The Gazette, readers aren't too keen on Mitchell High School's decision to suspend a student after a random drug search
turned up a pocket knife in her car - in a first-aid kit. Permit us to amplify some of our readers' views.

The fact that the senior, Sonya Golden, is an honor student who was named to the Mayor's 100 Teens list for her leadership skills, is beside the point. No one is asking school authorities - in the unfortunate words a school District 11 official used last week in a Gazette report - "to apply different rules to different kids."
That's a red herring, in fact. We join our readers in asking simply that school officials apply common sense.

And to the extent the rules themselves impose an unworkable, one-size-fits-all standard, policy makers should apply due haste in rewriting it.

In this case, Golden had done nothing of record that should have invoked scrutiny in the first place. The school district's security department uses dogs trained to sniff out drugs, alcohol and gun powder, and on a routine search of the high school parking lot the dogs apparently turned up the scent of alcohol around Golden's car. The scent was the result of an alcohol-related crash involving the car's previous owners, Golden believes.

Golden was pulled from class and asked if her car could be searched. She readily consented. It turns out she'd forgotten about the 21/2-inch pocket knife in a first-aid kit she and her mother had prepared and placed in the
glove compartment. Busted.

None of the administrators at the high school or at school district headquarters are challenging Golden's account or disputing her intent, which seems to be above reproach. Rather, officials are standing behind district policy, insisting they cannot bend the rules. She got a three-day suspension.

Those district-wide rules, which deem the pocket knife a "standard weapon," also state in part "... A student who violates this policy may be suspended and/or expelled,
depending on the nature of the violation." Given the insertion of "may," it's none too clear school authorities' hands were tied. It could be read to mean Golden didn't have to be disciplined at all, depending upon the
circumstances.

More generally, such sweeping "zero tolerance" policies, however well-meaning, almost invite abuse at some point. Too often, they're not thought through before they're enacted - as if intended at the time to serve
less as a legal standard than as a political statement in the wake of extraordinary school tragedies and general concerns about discipline. Then, the unintended consequences start to pop up.

Schools are to be lauded in general for trying to rein in the unruly students in their ranks. But overkill isn't the answer. We commend both Sonya Golden and her mother, Tamara Golden, for a measured and gracious response to all this. But we respectfully disagree with their shared sense that sometimes even the innocent must face the music to prevent tragedies on the order of
the one last spring at Littleton's Columbine High School.

School officials are kidding themselves if they think they're setting an example for any students who might actually have ill-intent. Plenty of students, and from the looks of it, the vast majority of our readers, see right
through that to the net effect: punishing the innocent.
[/quote]

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"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.

[LoneStar]

If a 2 1/2 knife in the glove compartment is such a threat, what about all the tire irons in trunks of cars? If I were looking for a weapon, I know which one I'd choose. Just about everyone, including the staff, need expelling.

How does an "Honor" student get that far along in school without ever being taught a little snipet, which happens to be the CORNERSTONE of American Justice, "Innocent until proven guilty"?

Sounds like all her "Educators", and her mother, need a couple cracks with the clue-bat

-L

[Lazarus]

Yet another reason why I choose to educate myself.

[Coinneach]

How does an "Honor" student get that far along in school without ever being taught a little snipet, which happens to be the CORNERSTONE of American Justice, "Innocent until proven guilty"?

Lonestar, you're overlooking something extremely obvious: honor students aren't necessarily the brightest kids, just the ones who get the best grades. In other words, the ones who parrot back exactly what they're told and don't question what the teacher tells them.

Speaking from experience, I am.

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"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.

[TAZ]

Vomitorium is correct. Much like a number of people on the board, I am totally disgusted by the childs response to the whole matter. Its OK for som einnocent people to get punished if it prevents further death and destruction. Evidently, her history and government teacher neglected to inform her of the reason we put up with the justice system we have is to make sure that the innocent never get punished. Hello!! anybody home up there???? Whats even scarier is that she is supposed to be the top 100 leader thingie. What is that all about?? Do we really need leaders willing to sacrifice innocents that willingly. I forsee "fraging" making a rapid come back if dip sh%$# like these are ever put in charge. Oops, my bad...they are already in charge

People today really scare me. Nobody thinks and nobody wants to promote independence and individual rights. The government tit awaits us all .