Norfolk, VA illegally arrests OC

[paramedic70002]

***EDITED FOR SPACE***

Norfolk passed an ILLEGAL 'no guns' ordinance a few months ago (no, I
am NOT kidding) and ENFORCED that illegal ordinance against a VCDL
member!

Chet Szymecki arrived at Sail Virginia 2007 with his family. Chet was approached by a black female Norfolk Sheriff's officer and was asked if he was a police officer.

Chet responded, "No."

The officer then stated that Chet must leave the festival area
immediately since he was not permitted to carry a firearm there. At
the same time another Sheriff's deputy closed in, and one more hung
back a few feet.

Within a few seconds two groups of officers from the Norfolk Police
Department approached.

The primary group had 5-6 officers, and from the look on a
Lieutenant's face Chet could tell that things were quickly becoming
exponentially worse.

The Lieutenant came within inches of Chet and in a very condescending
tone of voice stated that Chet had two choices: leave the park or go
to jail.

While appearing to be as non-confrontational as possible (one hand
holding his waffle cake and the other feeding his mouth) Chet began
to reply that this must be a simple misunderstanding since he is
permitted to carry.

Chet was cut off and, as the Lieutenant leaned in to intimidate him,
the Lieutenant raised his voice and just about shouted that Chet had
only two choices: leave immediately or be arrested.

Chet was still in shock and once again began to speak. Not waiting
to hear what Chet had to say, the Lieutenant immediately told the
other officers to arrest Chet!

In the following seconds Chet had hands all over him. One officer was
tugging at Chet's pistol, having much difficulty removing it. Chet
was worried about an accidental discharge with his family being
literally feet away.

Other officers were pulling Chet's arms around his back and cuffing
him. Chet offered no resistance.

Chet's wife began to speak and she was immediately pushed back by a
black female Sheriff's deputy!

Chet's children were just about panicking watching their law-abiding
father being stripped of his dignity while their mother was being
forced back and being told that she may be arrested if she failed to
comply.

Chet's wife attempted to record the scene on her cellular phone and
was told she would be arrested if she did not secure her phone
immediately!!!

The police then forcibly escorted Ms. Szymecki and her children off
the property and left them standing on a street corner in Norfolk,
all alone and without car keys (Chet had them and the police would
not retrieve them). How very shameful.

While being whisked away, Chet stated that he was aware that he was
being unlawfully disarmed and detained and he demanded to be released
immediately.

After a few minutes when Chet and the police were in a clear area
where an Explosive Ordinance Disposal van was parked, along with many
other police vehicles, Chet was instructed to face a wall.

Chet informed the officers that the handcuffs were agonizingly tight
and repeated that he was not a threat to any of them and asked that
the handcuffs be loosened.

Two officers were behind Chet holding him - one officer replied while
squeezing the cuffs tighter that "they were not meant to feel
comfortable." Nothing like having a sadist on the police payroll. I
knew a couple of officers like this who worked the jail in San
Antonio.

Chet was just sickened by the lack of professionalism and, as an
ex-law enforcement officer and law abiding citizen, SO AM I!

After a half hour or so, and asking a few more times to have his
cuffs be loosened, Chet was placed in the rear of a squad car. At
that time Chet's left hand was totally numb and his right shoulder
was aching.

Chet informed the officer in the police car that Chet was a veteran
retired from active service and had sustained injuries in the line of
duty - Chet's right arm being one of the injured areas.

Chet informed him that his right Brachial Plexus nerve group was torn
from his spine and he had limited use and mobility of his right arm.
Chet stated again that he simply wanted the cuffs behind his back to
be readjusted.

The most the officer could offer was a suggestion on how to sit back
in the squad car in a comfortable way. Needless to say - Chet, who
had done nothing wrong, was very uncomfortable.

Several times one officer approached Chet and stated that "in a town
of 200,000 or more like ours you cannot carry around a gun like you
can in other places."

Chet told the officer that that law did not apply since: (1) the gun
Chet was carrying was not classified as a "firearm" in that code
section and (2) Chet had a concealed carry permit which rendered the
entire section inapplicable to him.

Chet was told he did not know what he was talking about and Chet had
no business carrying a gun while in Norfolk.

Speaking of being ignorant of Virginia gun laws, that officer needs
remedial training. What a disgrace.

While in the cruiser an officer approached Chet and once again Chet
was offered a choice: sign a summons or go visit the magistrate.

Being unfamiliar with the entire process and not understanding the
gravity of the decision, Chet asked for additional clarification. The
officer was polite and informed Chet that signing a summons was not
an admission of guilt and he was simply promising to show up at a
future court date. By not signing the summons Chet would go in front
of a magistrate and this, along with the associated processing, would
take many hours. Signing the summons would only take a few minutes
and then Chet could be released.

Chet asked what would happen if the magistrate realized that this was
all a simple mistake. The officer informed Chet that even if the
magistrate released him, the police could issue a bench warrant and
keep Chet in jail until his court date!!! Any doubt that these
officers would have done so?

It seemed that signing the summons was the proper choice and Chet
signed it. I agree.

Chet asked for his pistol to be returned and one of the officers
stated that it was being held as evidence. Chet asked him for a
receipt for his confiscated property. The officer stated that he had
a pistol, one magazine, nine rounds of ammunition, and a holster.
The officer said his verbal receipt was sufficient!

Chet was also forced to provide his Social Security Number - Chet
asked if this were voluntary or mandatory - Chet was told it was
mandatory. WRONG again, Norfolk Police! Chet was also forced to
fingerprint his summons papers in four areas.

Arriving home almost two hours later, Chet was forced to seek
treatment at a local medical facility. Chet said he has a high
tolerance for pain and discomfort but his right arm/shoulder and the
back of his neck was just killing him.

Chet was examined by the doctor and prescribed medications. The
doctor stated that since his arm has limited movement and the
officers forced it into this unnatural position for over an hour,
muscles and ligaments were probably strained.

The next morning I was on the phone to Norfolk City Attorney, Bernard Pishko.

Mr. Pishko proceeded to tell me that the public streets for the event
were considered private property and thus guns could be banned. I
told him that the "Festevents" organization that was running the
festival was nothing but an arm of the City and could NOT ban guns.
I also said that if the private property part were true, why had Chet
not been arrested for trespass, but was instead charged under a City
ordinance?

Mr. Pishko said I wasn't a lawyer and didn't know what I was talking
about. He suggested that he could drop the charges against Chet, but
said that perhaps this issue should be settled in court. Mr. Pishko
said he was comfortable that the City would win.

However, Mr. Pishko said the charges would be dropped and he kept his
word. The charges were "Nollo Prossed" at Chet's court hearing on
June 22nd and Chet is now in the process of getting his record
expunged.

Chet was charged under City Code 42660 Section 3c (weapon/firearm in
festival area).

In order to gather information the City may have on this incident,
VCDL has already sent Freedom of Information Act requests to the

* Norfolk Sheriff, to find out which officer started this whole
thing, along with any supporting information

* Norfolk Police, to get a copy of ALL radio traffic and other
documents relating to Chet's arrest.

* Norfolk City Attorney, on the City's relationship with "Festevents"
and to get a copy of the offending ordinance

Two other law-abiding gun owners, one black and one white, were each
harassed TWICE by the Norfolk Police recently. Both were simply open
carrying.

The black gun owner, an articulate, polite, 23 year-old who has
helped at VCDL tables at various gun shows in the Tidewater area, had
guns drawn and pointed at him by the police on the first occasion.

On the second occasion, he was handcuffed, even after complying with
police demands to keep both hands on a nearby wall.

Both times the gun owner was released at the scene. But not after
being unnecessarily humiliated and manhandled.

On the second occasion, the police officers told him that if they saw
him open carrying again, they would handcuff him, run his gun for
stolen, and then release him again!!!

The white gun owner (Norfolk seems to be an equal opportunity
harasser) was also detained and then released.

[Musketeer]

Why can't charges be filed against the department and the individual officers for civil rights violations?

[W.E.G.]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...3----000-.html

TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 1983

§ 1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights

Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

[stevelyn]

I am soooooo glad I didn't move back to that armpit after being transfered out.:barf:

[Double Naught Spy]

Do you have a link to Norfolk City Codes that shows this law?

[longwatch]

http://www.norfolk.gov/council_membe...-15-07/r8a.pdf
c It shall be unlawful for any person to bring carry or possess any of the following weapons whether or not concealed any pistol revolver or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind or dirk bowie knife switchblade knife razor slingshot metal knucks blackjack or any flailing instrument consisting of two 2 or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely which may be known as a nunchahka nunchuck nunchaku shuriken or fighting chain or any disc of whatever configuration having at least two 2 points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart or any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this section Any such weapon shall be forfeited to the city and may be seized by an officer as forfeited and such as may be needed for police officers conservators of the peace and the division of consolidated laboratory services shall be devoted to that purpose subject to any registration requirements of federal law and the remainder shall be disposed of as provided in Section 18 2 310 of the Code of Virginia 1950 as amended This section shall not apply to any authorized law enforcement officer nor shall it apply within the Festival Area Extended to any person who possesses a lawfully issued permit to carry or possess the weapon and whose legal place of residence as shown on his or her driver s license or other picture identification is in the Festival Area Extended

[gdvan01]

I am soooooo glad I didn't move back to that armpit after being transfered out

Armpit. That's putting it lightly.

[Justme]

Yet more evidence that in spite of the letter of the law open carry is a bad idea outside of rural areas.

[phil mcwilliam]

why pack a pistol to a county fair to start with?

[nobius]

JustMe,

This is proof that WHERE AND WHEN LEGAL more people need to open carry. The more it is done, the less of a shock it will be when seen. Saying that you shouldn't open carry is akin to blaming the gun for these criminals, and yes, the LEO's in these situations have broken the law, for the crime. I fervently hope that my state continues moving toward open carry. I already have the holsters and pistols selected for both casual and formal occasions.

Phil,

Why not? If it is legal and you feel comfortable with it, by all means.

[phil mcwilliam]

Don't get me wrong , I cherish my S&W 629 -44MAG, .38 SUPER Colt govt, & .22 S&W mod 41, & have used each for hunting, but I don't feel insecure enough to have to carry.

[BlueTrain]

So Norfolk passed an illegal law? That's interesting in itself. But there are several interesting things here.

First of all, it is another example of a message board where half the members seem to want to be policemen complaining about the behavior of the police, here at least in the City of Norfolk.

I would suggest that if you think city street fairs are dangerous then you should stay away but there's probably no point in that. Of course with all the police around it is either more dangerous or less dangerous. Obviously it isn't the same with them there.

This is also probably another case of zero tolerance that we all were crying for a few years ago. Get tough on crime. Get the weapons off the street. This is really true but has taken different forms in different places and with varying success or results. In the Norfolk-Newport News area, specifically Virginia Beach (which is yet another jurisdiction), there was something of a police crackdown on unruly public behavior on the part of spring break college students. You know how awful they are. But anyway, if you want better law enforcement, enforcing the laws already on the books, just be careful what you wish for.

There are even more things I notice. One is the increasing degree of roughness on the part of the police, apparently everywhere. Everyone seems to be handcuffed no matter what and the police are quick to be pushy and rude. Do you suppose they wonder why they don't get much cooperation in some places.

Another thing not directly stated here but alluded to is the concept of public and private space. There was some mention of the festival being on private property and all laws are out the window for that reason. Some cities have apparently given whole city blocks over to private developers and overnight the city streets have become private property. I believe this happened in Silver Spring, Maryland. It really isn't a gun issue or even much of a police issue so much as it a public policy issue, even though there are now private security employees on patrol (just like Iraq, isn't it).

Well, we can't all move to Idaho, so we ought not let things go too far.

On the other hand, don't expect that much in the way of legal knowledge on the part of policemen. People who do have good legal knowledge are called lawyers. By the way, the quoted law sounds just like the one in my home town in West Virgina where I was growing up 50 years ago. I always wondered what a dirk was. I see their list of prohibitions has lengthened.

[Danzig]

Until I moved onto Fort Carson (that is, when I still lived off post out in Colorado Springs) I carried (openly) everywhere; supermarkets, department stores, restaurants, banks, etc. Nothing wrong with carrying in an urban area.

[Mike Irwin]

"why pack a pistol to a county fair to start with?"

A number of years ago a woman was robbed and raped at a county fair in central Pennsylvania, with literally thousands of people milling around within feet of where she was being attacked.

[GeorgeF]

why pack a pistol to a county fair to start with?

One might very well also ask

"Why pack a pistol to a school?"

Because its your right to defend yourself wherever the law allows you. If you arent looking to cause trouble, who cares?

[stevelyn]

Why pack a pistol to a county fair to start with?

Why wear a seatbelt on the drive there?

[lockedcj7]

...but I don't feel insecure enough to have to carry.

Hey Phil, that's real nice. I'm glad you're secure. I've nearly been a crime victim more than once and in some very public places. A woman was murdered at 10:00 AM in a grocery store nearby a few years ago so I don't share your feelings.

There are evil, insane and down-right dangerous people in the world and they can be anywhere. You never know when the need to defend yourself or your loved ones might arise. If you haven't realized that yet, you are not "secure", you only feel that way... and you are childishly naive.

[Double Naught Spy]

...but I don't feel insecure enough to have to carry.

Oh I get it, anyone who carries must be feeling insecure. Obviously Phil, you have your own insecurities because you own multiple guns. Since you don't carry, I assume you keep them at home. You must feel really insecure at home.

[Slugthrower]

Sounds like WAVY TV 10 needs to be one someones side and soon. I wonder if Mr. Chet Szymecki is aware of their services and has his documentation to present to them. I would hope that with that documentation they would take up an effort to expose this unjust behavior of the Norfolk Police Department.

[Edward429451]

Maybe phil feels insecure about what people would think of him if he did carry, and is in denial to himself about it.

I feel secure enough to carry. The world is what it is.

[armoredman]

Congrats, Phil, you managed to insult millions of law abiding people with one ignorant comment. To defend yourself one of the 1-2 million times a year, as researched by Prof Kleck, you must be insecure.
As for why carry to a fair? Explain, in detail, why they should not carry a lawful defensive tool to any location where it is legal to do so.
Unbelievable. Go register with Sarah Brady, she's looking for divide and conquer types.

[Slugthrower]

Take it easy guys... I don't think Phil is a zumbie. Only time can tell.

[Tim Burke]

VCDL has a new member today.

[donkee]

Phil is a hunter, that's all he seems to think a firearm is for.

About the first time he gets chased by a pickup truck full of drunk freaks in the middle of the night after taking his wife to the hospital to see the baby cause they think they can hold you down while they have their way with her, you might change your mind.

But then, maybe not..........

[cszy67]

Hello everyone, my name is Chet Szymecki. This is my statement:

I happen to be a person who feels strongly about the right to keep and bear arms. On some occasions, I gladly exercise that freedom by carrying a handgun in public places as it is the right of every law-abiding citizen to do.

My freedom was taken away from me by the Norfolk police for no valid reason. My family was mistreated and placed in peril by their actions. My efforts at a common sense discussion over the matter met with force and loud demands. This experience has shaken my long-held beliefs about the character of law-enforcement officers.

I plan to leave this matter with a neutral court to decide whether my freedoms under the federal Bill of Rights and the Virginia Constitution were violated.

My family and I wish to thank everyone for their kind words of support. If you would like for me to keep you updated regarding our progress feel free to contact me via the following:

[email protected]

Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) has been instrumental in helping to resolve our situation. They deserve my eternal gratitude.

Yours in truth and honor,

Chet Szymecki
Yorktown, VA