BHP Wont Fire After First Shot Is Fired

tex45acp · September 23, 2007, 07:26 PM

Well guys,

I have been working in guns for over 20 years and consider myself a good gun mechanic/smith. I have built a 1911 from bare parts and modified several revolvers. Today I ran into a problem that I can't seem to get a handle on. I recently bought a 77' model BHP, that shot fine, but I wanted to make some changes to fit my liking. I purchased several parts from Cylinder & Slide, a company I have bought parts from many times before. The replacement parts included a Drop In Trigger Pull Set, Wide Trigger and a set of nice wood grips. I installed the parts and on my first outing ran into something that really baffles me. The first shot goes off fine and the gun cycles perfectly, but I cannot pull the trigger and make the gun go off a second shot. If I gently pull the slide to the rear about 1/8" and release it then pull the trigger, the gun goes off again, but also again locks up, a simple rear nudge releases whatever is causing the problem. I tore the gun apart double checking everything and it is all correctly installed. I did find one thing, the spring under the sear lever is not there. Whe pressing the lever there is no resistance and the lever will stay down on the side pushed. Everywhere I have read, the BHP was designed to operate without that spring. If that is the case, what could be causing it to do this. I dimensionally checked the replacement parts and they match the originals. Any help would be appreciated.

tex

Jim Watson · September 23, 2007, 07:32 PM

Never heard of such a thing, although the modification that calls for drilling a new sear lever pivot pin hole through the slide can screw the gun up.

Still got the original parts?
You could try swapping Browning and aftermarket stuff around to isolate the bad actor.

tex45acp · September 23, 2007, 07:38 PM

No such mods done. All parts were drop in.

HammerBite · September 23, 2007, 09:41 PM

I suspect that the trigger lever is being bound somehow in its fore and aft movement. After the first shot the slide comes forward and the nose of the sear lever pushes the trigger lever forward. When you release the trigger the trigger lever does not snap back under the sear lever. Your cure for the situation (nudging the slide) indicates that slide motion can relieve the binding when the trigger has been released. There appears to be no way the slide can interfere with the trigger lever when the trigger lever is fully descended, however the trigger lever does pass close to the chamber ramp. If the trigger lever was bent inward (to the left) there might be interference between it and the ramp, or between it and the slide when the lever is up (trigger pulled).

I would try mounting the slide on the frame without the barrel and cycle the slide to see if the disconnect/connect functions operate normally. If they don't, then the slide is part of the problem with the trigger pulled, if they do, then the chamber ramp must be part of the problem. You could then position the barrel in its normal position in the frame (sans slide) and investigate the situation.

Other than that, I am out of ideas.

**4V50 Gary** · September 23, 2007, 09:43 PM

What HammerBite says. Sounds like the trigger isn't resetting.

James K · September 23, 2007, 10:10 PM

I will post what I said on another site FWIW.

"If the slide is drilled for the sear lever spring, the first thing to do is to install one. The older guns didn't have it, but the newer ones have a slightly different lever that is intended to work with a spring, and its absence will cause exactly the condtion reported. If that doesn't help, then I would look at the trigger lever engagement."

Jim

Scorch · September 24, 2007, 12:37 AM

I would look at the disconnector or the trigger bar. I also believe it is not resetting.

HammerBite · September 24, 2007, 04:41 AM

It also occurs to me that you should ckeck to see that the trigger lever is fully descended out of possible reach of the sear lever when the trigger is released.

tex45acp · September 25, 2007, 06:27 PM

Thank You All,

Your input was very valuable, but the problem ended up being the end of the new trigger's body. I finally used the trigger pivot pin and mounted both on it, side by side, to visually check for any differences. The new trigger's body was approximately 3/32" longer on the back end where the Mag Safety would mount. I took it to my bench grinder and ground it to the same length as the original trigger and chamfered all corners. I re-installed the trigger and shot 50rounds without any hangups.

tex

HammerBite · September 26, 2007, 01:14 AM

I love those "drop in" parts! Thanks for posting the resolution of the problem.

Harry Bonar · September 27, 2007, 03:32 PM

Sir:
As I've said many times, "There are NO drop-in parts". NONE!

That cylinder & slide trigger is a great one but it does need fitting.
Harry B.

September 23, 2007, 07:26 PM	#1
tex45acp Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2005 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 1,032	BHP Wont Fire After First Shot Is Fired Well guys, I have been working in guns for over 20 years and consider myself a good gun mechanic/smith. I have built a 1911 from bare parts and modified several revolvers. Today I ran into a problem that I can't seem to get a handle on. I recently bought a 77' model BHP, that shot fine, but I wanted to make some changes to fit my liking. I purchased several parts from Cylinder & Slide, a company I have bought parts from many times before. The replacement parts included a Drop In Trigger Pull Set, Wide Trigger and a set of nice wood grips. I installed the parts and on my first outing ran into something that really baffles me. The first shot goes off fine and the gun cycles perfectly, but I cannot pull the trigger and make the gun go off a second shot. If I gently pull the slide to the rear about 1/8" and release it then pull the trigger, the gun goes off again, but also again locks up, a simple rear nudge releases whatever is causing the problem. I tore the gun apart double checking everything and it is all correctly installed. I did find one thing, the spring under the sear lever is not there. Whe pressing the lever there is no resistance and the lever will stay down on the side pushed. Everywhere I have read, the BHP was designed to operate without that spring. If that is the case, what could be causing it to do this. I dimensionally checked the replacement parts and they match the originals. Any help would be appreciated. tex __________________ “All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.“

September 23, 2007, 07:38 PM	#3
tex45acp Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2005 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 1,032	No such mods done. All parts were drop in. __________________ “All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.“

September 23, 2007, 09:43 PM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,843	What HammerBite says. Sounds like the trigger isn't resetting. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 24, 2007, 12:37 AM	#7
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I would look at the disconnector or the trigger bar. I also believe it is not resetting. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

September 25, 2007, 06:27 PM	#9
tex45acp Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2005 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 1,032	Thank You All, Your input was very valuable, but the problem ended up being the end of the new trigger's body. I finally used the trigger pivot pin and mounted both on it, side by side, to visually check for any differences. The new trigger's body was approximately 3/32" longer on the back end where the Mag Safety would mount. I took it to my bench grinder and ground it to the same length as the original trigger and chamfered all corners. I re-installed the trigger and shot 50rounds without any hangups. tex __________________ “All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.“

September 23, 2007, 07:32 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,544	Never heard of such a thing, although the modification that calls for drilling a new sear lever pivot pin hole through the slide can screw the gun up. Still got the original parts? You could try swapping Browning and aftermarket stuff around to isolate the bad actor.

September 23, 2007, 09:41 PM	#4
HammerBite Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Northern VA Posts: 429	I suspect that the trigger lever is being bound somehow in its fore and aft movement. After the first shot the slide comes forward and the nose of the sear lever pushes the trigger lever forward. When you release the trigger the trigger lever does not snap back under the sear lever. Your cure for the situation (nudging the slide) indicates that slide motion can relieve the binding when the trigger has been released. There appears to be no way the slide can interfere with the trigger lever when the trigger lever is fully descended, however the trigger lever does pass close to the chamber ramp. If the trigger lever was bent inward (to the left) there might be interference between it and the ramp, or between it and the slide when the lever is up (trigger pulled). I would try mounting the slide on the frame without the barrel and cycle the slide to see if the disconnect/connect functions operate normally. If they don't, then the slide is part of the problem with the trigger pulled, if they do, then the chamber ramp must be part of the problem. You could then position the barrel in its normal position in the frame (sans slide) and investigate the situation. Other than that, I am out of ideas.

September 23, 2007, 10:10 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I will post what I said on another site FWIW. "If the slide is drilled for the sear lever spring, the first thing to do is to install one. The older guns didn't have it, but the newer ones have a slightly different lever that is intended to work with a spring, and its absence will cause exactly the condtion reported. If that doesn't help, then I would look at the trigger lever engagement." Jim

September 24, 2007, 04:41 AM	#8
HammerBite Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Northern VA Posts: 429	It also occurs to me that you should ckeck to see that the trigger lever is fully descended out of possible reach of the sear lever when the trigger is released.

September 26, 2007, 01:14 AM	#10
HammerBite Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Northern VA Posts: 429	I love those "drop in" parts! Thanks for posting the resolution of the problem.

September 27, 2007, 03:32 PM	#11
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	browning Sir: As I've said many times, "There are NO drop-in parts". NONE! That cylinder & slide trigger is a great one but it does need fitting. Harry B.