Sporterized Arisakas...

gedenke · November 6, 2007, 02:32 PM

A guy I know is selling three sporterized Japanese Arisaka rifles in .308, 6.5x257 and another unknown caliber. They're in ok shape, are they any good or are they junk?

Jimro · November 6, 2007, 03:46 PM

The Arisaka action is plenty strong, the 308 sounds interesting, the 6.5x257 sounds like a wildcat that would be expensive to feed unless you meant to type 6.5x57, the unkown caliber might even be the original 6.5 or 7.7 Japanese.

Of all the rifle actions torture tested to failure by PO Ackley the Arisakas were the strongest.

Jimro

Manedwolf · November 6, 2007, 03:50 PM

Just make sure they're not late-war Type 99's. The metallurgy of the last-ditch ones makes them absolutely unsafe to use.

gedenke · November 6, 2007, 04:40 PM

Not sure about the type(s). As you can imagine, there's very few markings on them. Just wanted to bounce this off you guys, because I'm pretty sure I could get one cheap. I'm going to look at them a little closer, but I think it was in fact 6.5x257 and if I remember right that one was in the best shape. I'll update you later.

gedenke · November 6, 2007, 04:41 PM

Oh, by the way, anyone here interested in them? Like I said, he has three.

gedenke · November 7, 2007, 12:17 PM

Rechecked, and yep, the good one is 6.5x257 and he also has dies for it as well as some loaded rounds. I think I'm going to make him an offer...

Csspecs · November 7, 2007, 01:22 PM

Hmmm

The .308 does sound cool.

gedenke · November 7, 2007, 02:14 PM

I thought so too, (about the .308), but that one is pretty rough.

Oh yeah, another friend of mine, who is also a private gunsmith, has also looked at the guns and he says the 6.5 is a type 38, and the .308 is a type 99, we didn't talk about the third one.

Jim Watson · November 7, 2007, 02:35 PM

In case you don't already know, 6.5x257 (Roberts) was a common rechamber to make it convenient to load for the type 38. It pretty much IS a 6.5x57 except for shoulder angle, and a fine round.

A lot of type 99s were converted to .300 Savage and later to .308 Win by setting the barrel of a 7.7 back at the breech and rechambering for a common US round. Unfortunately, the barrel was still .311" and accuracy may not be great because the project was seldom thought worth the cost of a new barrel.

I don't understand the dance around the details of the third. Hope it is not a "last ditch" or training rifle; or a Bubba Butcher Job.

gedenke · November 7, 2007, 04:41 PM

Jim, the reason I haven't looked further into the "mystery rifle", is because it, like the .308, isn't in very good shape. :barf: I might even go as far as agree with you and say it's a butcher job.

The one I'm interested in is the 6.5, which isn't too bad for a sporterized military rifle. I'm going over today after work to take a real good close look at all three again. I didn't get a chance to handle them much the first time (we were in the parking lot at work)

**44 AMP** · November 7, 2007, 04:55 PM

Can be a fine rifle, although from your post, it seems that the ones you are looking at may not be. I have seen some really poorly done examples, and a few that rival anything done with Mausers or Springfields. Other than the awkward safety, the Arisaka is a good action, and can be the basis for a fine rifle.

Here is one that someone put a lot of work into. It is in .308 Win, but unlike many, has been rebarreled, the action tangs shortened, safety altered, new triggerguard and floorplate, and nicely stocked and blued. And I paid $300!

Manedwolf · November 7, 2007, 05:18 PM

The last ditch would be a 99, likely. They're pretty obvious, because they're mostly unfinished, they look like crap. A .308 in one of those would be incredibly dangerous, and likely explode. The metallurgy was whatever junk they could cast as an alloy at that point, with zero quality control.

SOSARMS · November 7, 2007, 06:42 PM

Have seen a lot of these pop up on the auction markets in the past year or so. They don't seem to bring much money though, unless the mum is still intact. Most only bring 150-175, even in good shape. Many have been sporterized or modified in one way or another. Mine, that i received from my dad's estate, was chromed.....does shoot OK if you are willing to accept a 1 DOA.......

gedenke · November 8, 2007, 01:05 AM

44 - That one does look awsome, but I bet it took alot of $$ to get it there. I wonder where he got that bolt handle, it looks way better than the original. If I get one of these, I probably won't go that far, but I would try to dress it up a little. Maybe refinish the stock, new scope, etc. I wouldn't want to dump a bunch of dough on a $150 rifle, I'm just thinking it would be something cool to "tinker and plinker" with. Besides, like I said, I can get it cheap.

**44 AMP** · November 8, 2007, 01:48 AM

One kind is don on the cheap, just to make the gun a bit better handling and shooting. The other is done with love.

Back in the "dark ages" when the bring back rifles were dirt cheap, and quality metal and wood work was affordable, lota of rifles were made into sporters at a cost below that of a new Remington or Winchester bolt gun. Some of these guns were done by real artists, while others were the hack jobs that today is called a "bubba". And some were in between. A lot of these rifles of all action types (but mostly mausers, springfields, and arisakas) are showing up at the gun shows, as the original owners, or in many cases their sons, no longer have a use for them. Today's market being what it is, often these guns go for comparatively little, as today "serious" hunters think they need stainless/tactical finish on metal and composite/fiberglass/plastic stocks on their bolt guns, which drives the market. "Weatherproof" rifles are all the rage nowadays, and only old codgers like me seem to be interested in fine wood and blue steel. OK, that is an over generalization, but you get the idea. I have several rifles that today could not be duplicated for less than a few thousand dollars, and paid only a few hundred for each. Suits me just fine.

htshot · November 9, 2007, 04:54 AM

The 6.5x257 Roberts is a excelent cartraige. It is a wildcat from the 1950s .They took a 257Roberts and necked it up to 6.5. Getting the dies with it is a big plus since ammo is not available. The only drawback with the arisakas is a hard trigger pull. Possibly the trigger has already been changed or modified , if so your good to go. Buy it ,you will like it. As for as the last ditch rifle part goes not to worry. the last ditch rifles were 99 models ,you have a 38 model, a pre WW2 gun , very well made.

gedenke · November 9, 2007, 12:17 PM

I poked around on the net last night and discovered that Timney is making triggers for the Arisaka again. It's a about $95. http://www.timneytriggers.com/sunsho...=category&id=4
I also found some Easton reloading dies in 6.5x257 on EvilBay, they're going for $10 right now.

Hmmm...... this is looking like I might have to make this a project gun....(looking nervously over my shoulder for my wife...he he he....)

Scorch · November 9, 2007, 01:17 PM

I personally would have to think long and hard before buying an Arisaka. Parts are generally pretty hard to come by, and even restocked, new bolt handle, polished and reblued, they still look like the proverbial mud fence. Although they are a very strong action, and I have seen some custom rifles on Arisaka actions that were outstanding shooters, they are definitely not in my book of favorite actions.

**44 AMP** · November 9, 2007, 02:35 PM

The only thing left on the sporter I have that says "Arisaka" is the safety, and even that has been modified. Ok, so they are never going to be the most elegant bolt gun ever built, but for a well done job, I don't think "mud fence" is fair, nor accurate.

But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, some people even find milsurp Moisin-Nagants, AKs and ARs "beautiful" Takes all kinds, I guess.

gedenke · November 9, 2007, 10:29 PM

Well I went over and really looked over the rifles tonight and here's the verdict. All three have scopes (cheap) mounted and all three sit in Fajen stocks (floorplate mags).

The 6.5x257 Type 38 is relatively well done, with a nicely bent bolt handle. The scope mounts are Weaver and look to be professionally drilled and tapped. The flip-up rear site is still in place, no front sights. Barrel is about 24" or maybe 26", with clean blueing and a decent bore. Only thing is the muzzle needs to be crowned and of course the trigger is pretty rough, but I think the Timney would do well if my gunsmith friend couldn't help it.

Second is the .308 Type 99, not in great shape. This one has a very shortened barrel with a front sight installed. The rear scope mount is shaved to clear the bolt handle, but that wouldn't be to hard to fix (new mount). This one is not much to look at and the conversion work is sloppy. No way could this one be modified by the same guy as the first one.

Last is the "mystery gun", which turns out to be a Jap 6.5 Carbine. This one is the worst. The workmanship of the conversion is even worse than that of the .308. The scope mounts actully look like they're glued on or something. :barf: However, it appears to be the original barrel with the front sight and the shorter rear sight. What the guy did to the bolt handle is absolutely hideous, as it's shaved flat on the outside, I assume to clear the scope.

Long story short, I think I'll go for the 257. It's really not bad at all and with the dies and loaded rounds, $150 ain't a bad deal.

htshot · November 13, 2007, 01:07 AM

150 dollars is agreat buy . I would be all over it but a drive from Missouri to Oregon just isn't worth it. My rifle will shoot 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with peep sights . I use H4831 and 140 Gr. HP Searria bullets. Last rifle I seen like this at a show was priced at 300 dollars, no scope but very well done. To bad the carbine was sportsterized ,these a quite collectable and go for around 400 dollars. I collect Jap rifles and they are starting to be hard to find around here.

Gewehr98 · November 14, 2007, 01:05 PM

It's my mom's deer rifle, and it is done in the fashion of post-war fine gunsmithing.

It has been shortened to about 22", sports a deep Belgian bluing, and is fitted into an exquisite Fajen Mannlicher maple stock. Grandpa had it fitted with a Dayton trigger, a butterknife bolt handle, and one of the Denver Redfield steel-tubed scopes. It remains a 6.5x50 chambering, and is wonderful on Wisconsin whitetail. The safety knob is pretty quiet, but requires a strong thumb.

gedenke · December 10, 2007, 04:36 PM

Well, I pick up the gun tonight after work...I'll post some picture for you guys.

Speaking of pics, Gewehr, do yo have any of yours?

gedenke · December 11, 2007, 04:47 PM

Ok, I got the type 38 home last night and did a real good take-down/cleaning, and as I expected, I have some minor corrosion in various places, nothing major.

After I reassembled it, I took it outside and cycled a few rounds (it was too late to get out to the range), and discovered that I have a bit of a feeding problem. Like I mentioned before, it has a drop floorplate magazine. When I try to chamber a left side round, the tip of the bullet goes slightly too far right and won't feed into the chamber. The right side ones load fine. How can I fix this? My gunsmith friend said I should be able to shave a little bit off the left side of the magizine rail to get them to nose into the chamber better. Anybody had experience with this type of problem?

Oh, and one more thing, the "loaded rounds" that came with it turned out to be 60 loaded rounds and 60 primed brass. The boxes are marked 140 grain Hornady's with two differnt powders, and the loading dies are RCBS.

gedenke · December 12, 2007, 09:11 PM

As promised...here's a couple of pics. I think I'll upgrade the scope and definately refinish the stock. Eventually I'll spring for the Timney trigger. I hope to get out to the range this weekend and see how this 80yr old rig shoots. (wish me luck

)

November 6, 2007, 02:32 PM	#1
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	Sporterized Arisakas... A guy I know is selling three sporterized Japanese Arisaka rifles in .308, 6.5x257 and another unknown caliber. They're in ok shape, are they any good or are they junk? __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!

November 6, 2007, 03:46 PM	#2
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	The Arisaka action is plenty strong, the 308 sounds interesting, the 6.5x257 sounds like a wildcat that would be expensive to feed unless you meant to type 6.5x57, the unkown caliber might even be the original 6.5 or 7.7 Japanese. Of all the rifle actions torture tested to failure by PO Ackley the Arisakas were the strongest. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

November 6, 2007, 04:40 PM	#4
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	Not sure about the type(s). As you can imagine, there's very few markings on them. Just wanted to bounce this off you guys, because I'm pretty sure I could get one cheap. I'm going to look at them a little closer, but I think it was in fact 6.5x257 and if I remember right that one was in the best shape. I'll update you later. __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!

November 6, 2007, 04:41 PM	#5
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	Oh, by the way, anyone here interested in them? Like I said, he has three. __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!

November 7, 2007, 12:17 PM	#6
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	Rechecked, and yep, the good one is 6.5x257 and he also has dies for it as well as some loaded rounds. I think I'm going to make him an offer... __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!

November 6, 2007, 03:50 PM	#3
Manedwolf Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Posts: 3,266	Just make sure they're not late-war Type 99's. The metallurgy of the last-ditch ones makes them absolutely unsafe to use.

November 7, 2007, 01:22 PM	#7
Csspecs Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 1,111	Hmmm The .308 does sound cool. Last edited by Csspecs; November 7, 2007 at 03:14 PM.

November 7, 2007, 02:14 PM	#8
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	I thought so too, (about the .308), but that one is pretty rough. Oh yeah, another friend of mine, who is also a private gunsmith, has also looked at the guns and he says the 6.5 is a type 38, and the .308 is a type 99, we didn't talk about the third one. __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!

November 7, 2007, 02:35 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,545	In case you don't already know, 6.5x257 (Roberts) was a common rechamber to make it convenient to load for the type 38. It pretty much IS a 6.5x57 except for shoulder angle, and a fine round. A lot of type 99s were converted to .300 Savage and later to .308 Win by setting the barrel of a 7.7 back at the breech and rechambering for a common US round. Unfortunately, the barrel was still .311" and accuracy may not be great because the project was seldom thought worth the cost of a new barrel. I don't understand the dance around the details of the third. Hope it is not a "last ditch" or training rifle; or a Bubba Butcher Job.

November 7, 2007, 04:41 PM	#10
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	Jim, the reason I haven't looked further into the "mystery rifle", is because it, like the .308, isn't in very good shape. :barf: I might even go as far as agree with you and say it's a butcher job. The one I'm interested in is the 6.5, which isn't too bad for a sporterized military rifle. I'm going over today after work to take a real good close look at all three again. I didn't get a chance to handle them much the first time (we were in the parking lot at work) __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!

November 7, 2007, 05:18 PM	#12
Manedwolf Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Posts: 3,266	The last ditch would be a 99, likely. They're pretty obvious, because they're mostly unfinished, they look like crap. A .308 in one of those would be incredibly dangerous, and likely explode. The metallurgy was whatever junk they could cast as an alloy at that point, with zero quality control.

November 7, 2007, 06:42 PM	#13
SOSARMS Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2006 Location: The great Buckeye state...where nuts are not just for eating Posts: 623	a lot popping up.... Have seen a lot of these pop up on the auction markets in the past year or so. They don't seem to bring much money though, unless the mum is still intact. Most only bring 150-175, even in good shape. Many have been sporterized or modified in one way or another. Mine, that i received from my dad's estate, was chromed.....does shoot OK if you are willing to accept a 1 DOA.......

November 8, 2007, 01:05 AM	#14
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	44 - That one does look awsome, but I bet it took alot of $$ to get it there. I wonder where he got that bolt handle, it looks way better than the original. If I get one of these, I probably won't go that far, but I would try to dress it up a little. Maybe refinish the stock, new scope, etc. I wouldn't want to dump a bunch of dough on a $150 rifle, I'm just thinking it would be something cool to "tinker and plinker" with. Besides, like I said, I can get it cheap. __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!

November 8, 2007, 01:48 AM	#15
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,860	There are two kinds of "sporterize" One kind is don on the cheap, just to make the gun a bit better handling and shooting. The other is done with love. Back in the "dark ages" when the bring back rifles were dirt cheap, and quality metal and wood work was affordable, lota of rifles were made into sporters at a cost below that of a new Remington or Winchester bolt gun. Some of these guns were done by real artists, while others were the hack jobs that today is called a "bubba". And some were in between. A lot of these rifles of all action types (but mostly mausers, springfields, and arisakas) are showing up at the gun shows, as the original owners, or in many cases their sons, no longer have a use for them. Today's market being what it is, often these guns go for comparatively little, as today "serious" hunters think they need stainless/tactical finish on metal and composite/fiberglass/plastic stocks on their bolt guns, which drives the market. "Weatherproof" rifles are all the rage nowadays, and only old codgers like me seem to be interested in fine wood and blue steel. OK, that is an over generalization, but you get the idea. I have several rifles that today could not be duplicated for less than a few thousand dollars, and paid only a few hundred for each. Suits me just fine. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 9, 2007, 04:54 AM	#16
htshot Member Join Date: October 30, 2007 Posts: 74	The 6.5x257 Roberts is a excelent cartraige. It is a wildcat from the 1950s .They took a 257Roberts and necked it up to 6.5. Getting the dies with it is a big plus since ammo is not available. The only drawback with the arisakas is a hard trigger pull. Possibly the trigger has already been changed or modified , if so your good to go. Buy it ,you will like it. As for as the last ditch rifle part goes not to worry. the last ditch rifles were 99 models ,you have a 38 model, a pre WW2 gun , very well made.

November 9, 2007, 12:17 PM	#17
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	I poked around on the net last night and discovered that Timney is making triggers for the Arisaka again. It's a about $95. http://www.timneytriggers.com/sunsho...=category&id=4 I also found some Easton reloading dies in 6.5x257 on EvilBay, they're going for $10 right now. Hmmm...... this is looking like I might have to make this a project gun....(looking nervously over my shoulder for my wife...he he he....) __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!

November 9, 2007, 01:17 PM	#18
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I personally would have to think long and hard before buying an Arisaka. Parts are generally pretty hard to come by, and even restocked, new bolt handle, polished and reblued, they still look like the proverbial mud fence. Although they are a very strong action, and I have seen some custom rifles on Arisaka actions that were outstanding shooters, they are definitely not in my book of favorite actions. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

November 9, 2007, 02:35 PM	#19
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,860	Mud fence? Not to me! The only thing left on the sporter I have that says "Arisaka" is the safety, and even that has been modified. Ok, so they are never going to be the most elegant bolt gun ever built, but for a well done job, I don't think "mud fence" is fair, nor accurate. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, some people even find milsurp Moisin-Nagants, AKs and ARs "beautiful" Takes all kinds, I guess. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 9, 2007, 10:29 PM	#20
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	Well I went over and really looked over the rifles tonight and here's the verdict. All three have scopes (cheap) mounted and all three sit in Fajen stocks (floorplate mags). The 6.5x257 Type 38 is relatively well done, with a nicely bent bolt handle. The scope mounts are Weaver and look to be professionally drilled and tapped. The flip-up rear site is still in place, no front sights. Barrel is about 24" or maybe 26", with clean blueing and a decent bore. Only thing is the muzzle needs to be crowned and of course the trigger is pretty rough, but I think the Timney would do well if my gunsmith friend couldn't help it. Second is the .308 Type 99, not in great shape. This one has a very shortened barrel with a front sight installed. The rear scope mount is shaved to clear the bolt handle, but that wouldn't be to hard to fix (new mount). This one is not much to look at and the conversion work is sloppy. No way could this one be modified by the same guy as the first one. Last is the "mystery gun", which turns out to be a Jap 6.5 Carbine. This one is the worst. The workmanship of the conversion is even worse than that of the .308. The scope mounts actully look like they're glued on or something. :barf: However, it appears to be the original barrel with the front sight and the shorter rear sight. What the guy did to the bolt handle is absolutely hideous, as it's shaved flat on the outside, I assume to clear the scope. Long story short, I think I'll go for the 257. It's really not bad at all and with the dies and loaded rounds, $150 ain't a bad deal. __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!

November 13, 2007, 01:07 AM	#21
htshot Member Join Date: October 30, 2007 Posts: 74	150 dollars is agreat buy . I would be all over it but a drive from Missouri to Oregon just isn't worth it. My rifle will shoot 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with peep sights . I use H4831 and 140 Gr. HP Searria bullets. Last rifle I seen like this at a show was priced at 300 dollars, no scope but very well done. To bad the carbine was sportsterized ,these a quite collectable and go for around 400 dollars. I collect Jap rifles and they are starting to be hard to find around here.

November 14, 2007, 01:05 PM	#22
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	We have one of the sporterized Arisakas in the family. It's my mom's deer rifle, and it is done in the fashion of post-war fine gunsmithing. It has been shortened to about 22", sports a deep Belgian bluing, and is fitted into an exquisite Fajen Mannlicher maple stock. Grandpa had it fitted with a Dayton trigger, a butterknife bolt handle, and one of the Denver Redfield steel-tubed scopes. It remains a 6.5x50 chambering, and is wonderful on Wisconsin whitetail. The safety knob is pretty quiet, but requires a strong thumb. __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

December 10, 2007, 04:36 PM	#23
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	Well, I pick up the gun tonight after work...I'll post some picture for you guys. Speaking of pics, Gewehr, do yo have any of yours? __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!

December 11, 2007, 04:47 PM	#24
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	Ok, I got the type 38 home last night and did a real good take-down/cleaning, and as I expected, I have some minor corrosion in various places, nothing major. After I reassembled it, I took it outside and cycled a few rounds (it was too late to get out to the range), and discovered that I have a bit of a feeding problem. Like I mentioned before, it has a drop floorplate magazine. When I try to chamber a left side round, the tip of the bullet goes slightly too far right and won't feed into the chamber. The right side ones load fine. How can I fix this? My gunsmith friend said I should be able to shave a little bit off the left side of the magizine rail to get them to nose into the chamber better. Anybody had experience with this type of problem? Oh, and one more thing, the "loaded rounds" that came with it turned out to be 60 loaded rounds and 60 primed brass. The boxes are marked 140 grain Hornady's with two differnt powders, and the loading dies are RCBS. __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!

December 12, 2007, 09:11 PM	#25
gedenke Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 381	Pics... As promised...here's a couple of pics. I think I'll upgrade the scope and definately refinish the stock. Eventually I'll spring for the Timney trigger. I hope to get out to the range this weekend and see how this 80yr old rig shoots. (wish me luck ) __________________ There's an art...to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!