"Largish" Pocket Gun with "style"?

L_Killkenny · January 9, 2008, 10:24 PM

Well, due to accuracy and cost concerns I've decided against a derringer. I really like some of them but the quality derringers (i.e. Bond Arms) are beyond my price range for my desired use.

BTW, here is the desired use: I'm wanting a gun to shove into a jacket, life preserver or cargo pants pocket and forget about while canoeing, camping, hiking, fishing, etc. I always take a gun when doing these hobbies but have yet to every get the gun out and fire it. Even when I do break the gun out during these ventures it will, more than likely, be for impulse plinking or hunting. It's secondary use will be SD and survival. Because of the secondary uses a .22 is out of the running.

A .38 snub with a 2" or 3" barrel may fit my needs but they aren't a flat as I'd like (the big advantage of the derringer). There is tons of small .32 and .380 autos out there but I reload and absolutly hate looking for and picking up brass.

So here's everyones assignment: Find me a gun thats cheap enough for hard use (i.e. $200 and under used). Not that I abuse my guns but.....well you know. It should be small enough for pocket carry but large enough/accurate enough for short range hunting and fun plinking. Caliber should be between .32 S&W Long thru .38 special (or similer auto rounds).

Now for the hard part. I'd Like the gun to have "style" and/or "character". Lets face it, "most" small autos and less expensive .38 snubs, like the Charter Arms, are very generic and plain. At least the derringers have what I'd call "character". As a further example: I was really looking hard at the CZ-70s (price is right at $100-$125 around here). But they are down right ugly. It would be like taking an ugly girl to the high school prom. Just not right I tell you!!

Maybe some of the ugly ducklings can be "stylizied".

Bring on the ideas and the pics if you got em!

LK

Buzzcook · January 9, 2008, 11:13 PM

Geez you don't ask for much do you?

You might consider carrying in a fanny pack.

A pocket pistol that doubles as a plinker and self defense is not a very realistic goal.

Personally I'd forget about "The Hills Have Eyes" "Deliverance" type guys eating your liver and making you squeal like a piggy.

Take a nice .22 plinker and have fun.
If you do come back minus a liver I'll take full responsibility.

TargetTerror · January 9, 2008, 11:55 PM

So, just so we're clear, you want a gun that satisfies all of these requirements:

Potent enough to be a SD gun
Between 32 and 380/38 special
Small and (presumably) light enough to pocket carry
Large enough for plinking and hunting
Accurate enough for plinking and hunting
Durable and reliable
Under $200
Has "style" or "character"

Let me be the first to wish you good luck on your search!

IMHO, you can have some of the above, but definitely not all of them. Some them are downright incompatible - like being accurate enough for hunting (hunting what?) and small enough to pocket carry.

The closest you'll get is probably a Makarov or variant thereof. Check out www.jgsales.com. They have a FEG makarov clone for $99. You said you didn't like the "character" of the CZ-70, so you might not like the Makarov. Personally, I think any gun that the KGB used for whatever it is the KGB uses small handguns for has plenty of character to go around for everyone.

A much better choice would be a S&W J frame. They are quite a bit more than $200, but not that much more if you find a good used specimen. 38 spl +p loads will be more than enough for anything you have listed. I wouldn't hunt with them, as they are just too small and difficult to shoot for that.

Personally, I would go with a Ruger SP101 in .357 magnum. That is my carry gun, and the smallest gun that I own. They are much more than $200, but you can usually find one for ~$300 once in a while (I did!). The 3 inch should be plenty accurate and easy to shoot, even enough that you might be able to hunt things from very close. And it defnitely wins the character contest hands down. Nothing says "style" like a 2 inch .357 magnum cooking off a full house load

NCHornet · January 10, 2008, 07:43 AM

When you find a gun that fits all your needs for under $200 let me know and I will buy a dozen!!
Probably one of the best deals out there right now is the new Cougars by Stoeger, around $300-$350 they are a steal, but I have yet to see one in a gun store.
NCH

wjkuleck · January 10, 2008, 10:15 AM

I'm not sure I'd dismiss the .22LR out of hand. It should be possible to find a Ruger Standard Model at a gun show for $200, and with some luck, a Ruger 22/45. The latter doesn't look like a .22, thus it likely would have a considerable intimidation factor.

Load 'er up with Stingers or the like and you have a very useful tool. Oh, why an autoloader? Ten rounds is why, and with a spare mag or two...

Best regards,

Walt

gvf · January 10, 2008, 10:23 AM

Good style - and I'm sure with the right pocket it's a cinch

wjkuleck · January 10, 2008, 11:20 AM

You must have really deep pockets

!

Best regards,

Walt

SGHOTH · January 10, 2008, 11:35 AM

Makarov. 9x18 will work for light to med game in a pinch. It is an OK self defense round. It will meet your cost target. It will fit in your pocket and is nice and flat.

glennfish · January 10, 2008, 11:37 AM

For pocket carry, and I did a ton of research on this, my choices narrowed to the Seecamp, the P-32 or the P3-AT.

Couldn't afford the Seecamp. Kel-Tecs new are in the mid 200s, so used may get into your range.

For my pockets, nothing larger would fit.

Lot depends on how deep your pockets are

Old John · January 10, 2008, 12:01 PM

That's what I bought DSW Sharon, as a Yule gift this year.
It was $279 NIB and OTD.

She has a Keltec P11, double stack.Not satisfied.
The PF9 is single stack, only holds 6 + 1, of the 9mm Parabellums.
She likes it lots better. Got an Uncle Mike's pocket holster.
It slips in the side pocket of her tight jeans.
All shots in the 8 ring at 7 yrds.

Here's a good Site with some comparisons:

http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.jpg

It'll help you out some.

carguychris · January 10, 2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

A much better choice would be a S&W J frame. They are quite a bit more than $200, but not that much more if you find a good used specimen.

Here's an oddball suggestion: a S&W Regulation Police.

This is an I-frame or J-frame revolver (depending on year of production) with a 4" barrel and either a 6-shot cylinder in .32 Long or a 5-shot cylinder in .38 S&W (not .38Spl). They went out of production decades ago but seem fairly easy to find at gun shows, and they're priced low due to the combination of obscure low-powered caliber, fairly large supply, and inadequate weight for use as a target gun.

IMHO these guns look cool in that old-school S&W way. To my eye, they look like a 2/3-scale model of an M1917.

For carrying, the I-frames actually weigh about the same as a modern Model 36.

Another candidate is the .38 Terrier, similar to the .38 Regulation Police but with a 2" barrel and round butt.

Another thought in the J-frame camp is a 3" barrel Model 36, but it's doubtful that you'll find one in the sub-$300 range due to their relative scarcity.

Cowart · January 10, 2008, 01:19 PM

How about one of these - the hard part will be finding one in your price range

govmule84 · January 10, 2008, 06:29 PM

I'll bite.

How about a Polish Radom? I have a P-64. I pocket carry it, and I will use it at the range (It gets reeeal snappy after 50 rounds or so, but it works.) I got mine for 160 bucks, and that included three mags.

It ain't perfect, but you gots you a taaaaalllll list.

Shadi Khalil · January 10, 2008, 06:47 PM

Forget about the 200 dollar thing, thats not happening. get one of these.....

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...9&d=1198281501

KyJim · January 10, 2008, 07:11 PM

The Bersa Thunder .380 might fit the bill. It will fit in larger pockets, is flat, reliable, and might be found around the $200 mark used. It looks similar to the Walther PPK/S so it also has "style." If you want to go a bit higher, get the Bersa Thunder Concealed Carry .380 new (probably not many used ones on the market since it is still new to the market).

http://www.bersafirearmsusa.com/

MikeinLA · January 10, 2008, 07:15 PM

I would have to 2nd the idea of a 2" Stainless .357 revolver running +Ps like the SP-01 or something like the S & W M64-2 that I have. Definitely a Stainless since you mentioned a wet environment and I would favor a revolver because if it falls in the muck, it's easier to clean up in the field. I can stick the 64 in my back jeans pocket and the butt barely peeks out (the gun's, not mine). Just wear a long shirt.

Mike

Avenger11 · January 10, 2008, 07:15 PM

You want style, accuracy, reliability, concealability for $200. Dream on!!!!!!!!

tplumeri · January 10, 2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Good style - and I'm sure with the right pocket it's a cinch

LOL. i dont do that too often. my wife thought i was having another flashback.

about the original question. a favorite of mine that meets a few of the criteria;

Walther ppk, preferably stainless.

potent enough for self defense (up close and personal)
definately has character
the requested caliber
pocket carry
reliable
large enough for plinking (up close and personal) and hunting (ground hogs)

its the perfect gun for you, except the price.

I prefer my PM9 for everyday carry.

Dave85 · January 10, 2008, 08:47 PM

Look at the FEG PA-63 in 9x18. It's as close a copy of a Walther PP as the Hungarians are (or were as of the fall of the Evil Empire) capable of. I think the two-tone finish adds to the looks.

wdelack · January 10, 2008, 09:10 PM

I agree with Cowart, the COP .357 Derringer would be a fun choice.

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms...ls/COP_357.htm

L_Killkenny · January 11, 2008, 02:07 PM

Lots of good advice, lets see if I can address some of it.

Buzzcook, if you look at some of my other posts, the last thing you'll see is someone worrying about muntant zombies. But, if you don't mind me borrowing that as an excuse to buy and carry a gun I will.

I'd cross the 9x18 off the list. Ammo availability being the reason. Most gun stores carry it but I've yet to see the local marts or mom and pop sporting good stores carry it. For that reason and that reason only I'd chose a .380 over the 9x18. I'd prefer a round that is VERY readily available or guns that shoot "matching" calibers like .38/.357, .32 long/.32 H&R. To top it off, I already have dies for .357 and .32.

I really like the idea of the J-frame S&W Regulation Police. A j-framed .32 long or .38 with a 3" barrel would fit the bill nicely even if it isn't as flat as I'd like.

A PPK clone like the Bersa in .32 or .380 might work too. Would take some work to find one that is minute of popcan at 20-25' though. Might have to try my hand at customizing to get the look and sights I want.

Really like the SP-101. Almost bought a 4" in .32 mag last year. But that and a newer Smiths are too much money right now for this "project".

Already have a Ruger 22/45. Mine is one of the good ones though (MkII) without all the safty crap. It's what I've been using for years for my hobbies but I've yet to break it out while camping, hiking and canoeing. Just getting tired of the weight and size. And I need another excuse for a gun.

Avenger11, tell you what, I'll find something and let you know. A gun doesn't have to be a smith or a sig to look and shoot good. It also doesn't have to cost $400. I've never spent more than $315 on a gun in my life and I refuse to own a gun that doesn't please my eye AND shoot good. I'll put any of my guns up against yours in a accuracy/dependabilty race.

Well "my need to look at list" is starting to take shape. At the top would be and older .32 SW Long, .38 SW or a .38 special with 2" (preferably 3") barrel. Other that that I'll have to look closer at the "larger" pocket semi's in either .32 acp or 380. Maybe a PPK clone or a CZ because I like the size.

Thanks much and keep the ideas coming. Bring on more pics!!

LK

Avenger11 · January 11, 2008, 07:20 PM

So now we've gone from a $200 gun to $400. Big difference!!Please let me know when you find a quality, stylish, reliable, and accurate handgun for $200.I won't hold my breath!

2cooltoolz · January 11, 2008, 07:34 PM

Never actually even seen one personally, but I've heard that they are functional, reliable, and have their own syle.........

$155 new

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/hand...ls.asp?Gun=9mm

Desslock · January 12, 2008, 11:27 AM

When I go kayaking I usually pack my Walther P1 in a waterproof bag and pocket carry my NAA Mini Mag 1-5/8". The P1 was $269 and if it gets wet it's extremely easy to field strip & clean. The Mini was around $200 and you either love those or don't. I personally love mine and it goes everywhere with me. By the way, the waterproof bag is clipped & strapped to the 'yak in case I capsize.

sw_florida · January 12, 2008, 06:01 PM

Style. Style in the eyes of what crowd?

January 9, 2008, 10:24 PM	#1
L_Killkenny Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,676	"Largish" Pocket Gun with "style"? Well, due to accuracy and cost concerns I've decided against a derringer. I really like some of them but the quality derringers (i.e. Bond Arms) are beyond my price range for my desired use. BTW, here is the desired use: I'm wanting a gun to shove into a jacket, life preserver or cargo pants pocket and forget about while canoeing, camping, hiking, fishing, etc. I always take a gun when doing these hobbies but have yet to every get the gun out and fire it. Even when I do break the gun out during these ventures it will, more than likely, be for impulse plinking or hunting. It's secondary use will be SD and survival. Because of the secondary uses a .22 is out of the running. A .38 snub with a 2" or 3" barrel may fit my needs but they aren't a flat as I'd like (the big advantage of the derringer). There is tons of small .32 and .380 autos out there but I reload and absolutly hate looking for and picking up brass. So here's everyones assignment: Find me a gun thats cheap enough for hard use (i.e. $200 and under used). Not that I abuse my guns but.....well you know. It should be small enough for pocket carry but large enough/accurate enough for short range hunting and fun plinking. Caliber should be between .32 S&W Long thru .38 special (or similer auto rounds). Now for the hard part. I'd Like the gun to have "style" and/or "character". Lets face it, "most" small autos and less expensive .38 snubs, like the Charter Arms, are very generic and plain. At least the derringers have what I'd call "character". As a further example: I was really looking hard at the CZ-70s (price is right at $100-$125 around here). But they are down right ugly. It would be like taking an ugly girl to the high school prom. Just not right I tell you!! Maybe some of the ugly ducklings can be "stylizied". Bring on the ideas and the pics if you got em! LK

January 9, 2008, 11:55 PM	#3
TargetTerror Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Posts: 424	So, just so we're clear, you want a gun that satisfies all of these requirements: Potent enough to be a SD gun Between 32 and 380/38 special Small and (presumably) light enough to pocket carry Large enough for plinking and hunting Accurate enough for plinking and hunting Durable and reliable Under $200 Has "style" or "character" Let me be the first to wish you good luck on your search! IMHO, you can have some of the above, but definitely not all of them. Some them are downright incompatible - like being accurate enough for hunting (hunting what?) and small enough to pocket carry. The closest you'll get is probably a Makarov or variant thereof. Check out www.jgsales.com. They have a FEG makarov clone for $99. You said you didn't like the "character" of the CZ-70, so you might not like the Makarov. Personally, I think any gun that the KGB used for whatever it is the KGB uses small handguns for has plenty of character to go around for everyone. A much better choice would be a S&W J frame. They are quite a bit more than $200, but not that much more if you find a good used specimen. 38 spl +p loads will be more than enough for anything you have listed. I wouldn't hunt with them, as they are just too small and difficult to shoot for that. Personally, I would go with a Ruger SP101 in .357 magnum. That is my carry gun, and the smallest gun that I own. They are much more than $200, but you can usually find one for ~$300 once in a while (I did!). The 3 inch should be plenty accurate and easy to shoot, even enough that you might be able to hunt things from very close. And it defnitely wins the character contest hands down. Nothing says "style" like a 2 inch .357 magnum cooking off a full house load __________________ Head shots are hard, but nut shots are twice as hard.

January 10, 2008, 07:43 AM	#4
NCHornet Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2006 Posts: 1,001	When you find a gun that fits all your needs for under $200 let me know and I will buy a dozen!! Probably one of the best deals out there right now is the new Cougars by Stoeger, around $300-$350 they are a steal, but I have yet to see one in a gun store. NCH __________________ When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away!! Carry ON!! NCHornet

January 10, 2008, 10:15 AM	#5
wjkuleck Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2007 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 1,220	I'm not sure I'd dismiss the .22LR out of hand. It should be possible to find a Ruger Standard Model at a gun show for $200, and with some luck, a Ruger 22/45. The latter doesn't look like a .22, thus it likely would have a considerable intimidation factor. Load 'er up with Stingers or the like and you have a very useful tool. Oh, why an autoloader? Ten rounds is why, and with a spare mag or two... Best regards, Walt __________________ Author, NEW! The M1911 Complete Owner's Guide The M14 and M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guides The M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guide The AR-15 Complete Assembly and (New 4th Edition) Owner's Guides

January 10, 2008, 11:20 AM	#7
wjkuleck Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2007 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 1,220	You must have really deep pockets ! Best regards, Walt __________________ Author, NEW! The M1911 Complete Owner's Guide The M14 and M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guides The M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guide The AR-15 Complete Assembly and (New 4th Edition) Owner's Guides

January 9, 2008, 11:13 PM	#2
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Geez you don't ask for much do you? You might consider carrying in a fanny pack. A pocket pistol that doubles as a plinker and self defense is not a very realistic goal. Personally I'd forget about "The Hills Have Eyes" "Deliverance" type guys eating your liver and making you squeal like a piggy. Take a nice .22 plinker and have fun. If you do come back minus a liver I'll take full responsibility.

January 10, 2008, 11:35 AM	#8
SGHOTH Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2004 Posts: 452	Makarov. 9x18 will work for light to med game in a pinch. It is an OK self defense round. It will meet your cost target. It will fit in your pocket and is nice and flat. __________________ It is in my nature to like Sigs

January 10, 2008, 11:37 AM	#9
glennfish Junior Member Join Date: December 11, 2007 Posts: 7	For pocket carry, and I did a ton of research on this, my choices narrowed to the Seecamp, the P-32 or the P3-AT. Couldn't afford the Seecamp. Kel-Tecs new are in the mid 200s, so used may get into your range. For my pockets, nothing larger would fit. Lot depends on how deep your pockets are

January 10, 2008, 12:01 PM	#10
Old John Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2005 Posts: 232	Keltec PF9 That's what I bought DSW Sharon, as a Yule gift this year. It was $279 NIB and OTD. She has a Keltec P11, double stack.Not satisfied. The PF9 is single stack, only holds 6 + 1, of the 9mm Parabellums. She likes it lots better. Got an Uncle Mike's pocket holster. It slips in the side pocket of her tight jeans. All shots in the 8 ring at 7 yrds. Here's a good Site with some comparisons: http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.jpg It'll help you out some. __________________ ' Til Later, Old John "Look for the Humor, in Life"

January 10, 2008, 01:19 PM	#12
Cowart Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2007 Posts: 247	How about one of these - the hard part will be finding one in your price range

January 10, 2008, 06:29 PM	#13
govmule84 Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Location: Up on a hill Posts: 398	I'll bite. How about a Polish Radom? I have a P-64. I pocket carry it, and I will use it at the range (It gets reeeal snappy after 50 rounds or so, but it works.) I got mine for 160 bucks, and that included three mags. It ain't perfect, but you gots you a taaaaalllll list.

January 10, 2008, 06:47 PM	#14
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	Forget about the 200 dollar thing, thats not happening. get one of these..... http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...9&d=1198281501

January 10, 2008, 07:11 PM	#15
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	The Bersa Thunder .380 might fit the bill. It will fit in larger pockets, is flat, reliable, and might be found around the $200 mark used. It looks similar to the Walther PPK/S so it also has "style." If you want to go a bit higher, get the Bersa Thunder Concealed Carry .380 new (probably not many used ones on the market since it is still new to the market). http://www.bersafirearmsusa.com/

January 10, 2008, 07:15 PM	#16
MikeinLA Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2007 Location: Los Angeles........Yes, I know. Posts: 120	I would have to 2nd the idea of a 2" Stainless .357 revolver running +Ps like the SP-01 or something like the S & W M64-2 that I have. Definitely a Stainless since you mentioned a wet environment and I would favor a revolver because if it falls in the muck, it's easier to clean up in the field. I can stick the 64 in my back jeans pocket and the butt barely peeks out (the gun's, not mine). Just wear a long shirt. Mike

January 10, 2008, 07:15 PM	#17
Avenger11 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2007 Posts: 311	You want style, accuracy, reliability, concealability for $200. Dream on!!!!!!!!

January 10, 2008, 08:47 PM	#19
Dave85 Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,421	Look at the FEG PA-63 in 9x18. It's as close a copy of a Walther PP as the Hungarians are (or were as of the fall of the Evil Empire) capable of. I think the two-tone finish adds to the looks. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --commonly misattributed to, and most likely not, Benjamin Franklin

January 10, 2008, 09:10 PM	#20
wdelack Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Location: Houston, TX. Posts: 439	I agree with Cowart, the COP .357 Derringer would be a fun choice. http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms...ls/COP_357.htm

January 11, 2008, 02:07 PM	#21
L_Killkenny Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,676	Lots of good advice, lets see if I can address some of it. Buzzcook, if you look at some of my other posts, the last thing you'll see is someone worrying about muntant zombies. But, if you don't mind me borrowing that as an excuse to buy and carry a gun I will. I'd cross the 9x18 off the list. Ammo availability being the reason. Most gun stores carry it but I've yet to see the local marts or mom and pop sporting good stores carry it. For that reason and that reason only I'd chose a .380 over the 9x18. I'd prefer a round that is VERY readily available or guns that shoot "matching" calibers like .38/.357, .32 long/.32 H&R. To top it off, I already have dies for .357 and .32. I really like the idea of the J-frame S&W Regulation Police. A j-framed .32 long or .38 with a 3" barrel would fit the bill nicely even if it isn't as flat as I'd like. A PPK clone like the Bersa in .32 or .380 might work too. Would take some work to find one that is minute of popcan at 20-25' though. Might have to try my hand at customizing to get the look and sights I want. Really like the SP-101. Almost bought a 4" in .32 mag last year. But that and a newer Smiths are too much money right now for this "project". Already have a Ruger 22/45. Mine is one of the good ones though (MkII) without all the safty crap. It's what I've been using for years for my hobbies but I've yet to break it out while camping, hiking and canoeing. Just getting tired of the weight and size. And I need another excuse for a gun. Avenger11, tell you what, I'll find something and let you know. A gun doesn't have to be a smith or a sig to look and shoot good. It also doesn't have to cost $400. I've never spent more than $315 on a gun in my life and I refuse to own a gun that doesn't please my eye AND shoot good. I'll put any of my guns up against yours in a accuracy/dependabilty race. Well "my need to look at list" is starting to take shape. At the top would be and older .32 SW Long, .38 SW or a .38 special with 2" (preferably 3") barrel. Other that that I'll have to look closer at the "larger" pocket semi's in either .32 acp or 380. Maybe a PPK clone or a CZ because I like the size. Thanks much and keep the ideas coming. Bring on more pics!! LK

January 11, 2008, 07:20 PM	#22
Avenger11 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2007 Posts: 311	So now we've gone from a $200 gun to $400. Big difference!!Please let me know when you find a quality, stylish, reliable, and accurate handgun for $200.I won't hold my breath!

January 11, 2008, 07:34 PM	#23
2cooltoolz Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2007 Location: Lake Conroe, Texas Posts: 1,059	Never actually even seen one personally, but I've heard that they are functional, reliable, and have their own syle......... $155 new http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/hand...ls.asp?Gun=9mm __________________ What me worry

January 12, 2008, 11:27 AM	#24
Desslock Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 203	When I go kayaking I usually pack my Walther P1 in a waterproof bag and pocket carry my NAA Mini Mag 1-5/8". The P1 was $269 and if it gets wet it's extremely easy to field strip & clean. The Mini was around $200 and you either love those or don't. I personally love mine and it goes everywhere with me. By the way, the waterproof bag is clipped & strapped to the 'yak in case I capsize.

January 12, 2008, 06:01 PM	#25
sw_florida Junior member Join Date: April 28, 2007 Location: In the shadow Posts: 526	Style. Style in the eyes of what crowd?