Origin of Gangsta' Style Shooting?

Karanas · February 21, 2000, 07:43 PM

Something for the FWIW file:
Considering the recurring discussion about gangsta' style shooting (holding the handgun sideways), I thought that this explanation of its origin might prove interesting to some.
While it is largely acknowledged that this particular style originated in Hollywood, it has often been attributed to some sort of artistic license intended to simply make the BG in the movie look cool!

There has been some deliberation about the possible technical rationale associated with this style, that there may be some advantage to shooting this way.
The explanation I received was technical, but it had more to do with photography than ballistics. It seems that during the filming of some close-ups during a shootout scene, the brass ejecting from the handgun kept hitting the camera lens. As these lenses are very expen$ive, the director suggested that the actor hold the gun in a manner that would shift the trajectory of the spent brass in a safer direction.
Voila! Gangsta' style shooting!
Completely undocumented and unverifiable!
FWIW!

tombread · February 21, 2000, 10:08 PM

I always thought the reason gangbangers hold the gun sideways is because that's the way it comes in the box.

Gwinnydapooh · February 21, 2000, 10:38 PM

I'm not sure what caused it but it's getting worse.

The other night on Walker, Texas Ranger (why do I watch it again?) the bad guy was holding his gun so far gangsta style that it was actually upside down! He was having a long conversation at gunpoint with Walker so he changed the angle several times, but for awhile the gun was upside down with the sights pointed directly at the ground. Shows good flexibility in the forearms but I don't see the other advantage.
Actually, Karanas' explanation makes more sense than the ones I've heard before.

Herodotus · February 21, 2000, 11:05 PM

I cannot remember where, but I beleive I once read an article that said that some Israeli anti-terrorist orginization taught this method of holding an auto pistol sideways when drawing one's pistol in tight situations at very close quarters. This Israeli organization claimed it was a faster draw. You just pulled out your pistol and shoved it at the opponent, like a punch. They obviously were not aiming with thier sights. Whoever wrote the article thought the idea was pretty dubious.

[This message has been edited by Herodotus (edited February 21, 2000).]

LawDog · February 22, 2000, 01:00 AM

I saw the Israeli style demonstrated once. The pistol was carried with an empty chamber. The demonstrator drew the pistol, and held it horizontal to enable him to chamber a round as he came on target. After the round was chambered, held the pistol in a conventioanl manner.

I got the impression that a lot of Israeli's carried hammer down on an empty chamber.

If I ever decide to carry that way, I'll check into the style.

I was under the impression that the gangstas shot the pistols sideways so that they could keep track of the expended brass as it bounced off their foreheads.

LawDog

[This message has been edited by LawDog (edited February 22, 2000).]

Jeff OTMG · February 22, 2000, 10:19 AM

I thought I invented it in 1984-85. It was the only way to shoot a Seecamp .25 with any hope of accuracy. No sights on the gun, but there is a groove running down both sides that can be used as a sight.

Erik · February 22, 2000, 03:50 PM

Lawdog is right - the Israelis figured out that it is quicker to go from empty chamber to loaded chamber using their technique. Their technique only applies to chambering the round. They transition to conventional stances immediately afterwards. It is particularly useful if yoou prefer the isoscoles stance, IMO.

I always wanted to know why they carried with an empty chamber? - the guys I saw on the Discovery Channel carried 1911s and HiPowers.

Erik

jcoyoung · February 22, 2000, 04:33 PM

I have a theory.

The gangsta's CATCH the brass in their MOUTH, therefore eliminate any brass that can be used as evidence later.

------------------
"Ray guns don't vaporize Zorbonians, Zorbonians vaporize Zorbonians" The Far Side

Dakotan · February 22, 2000, 04:49 PM

Yet another story to confuse the subject:
Supposedly this originated from China. If a single man or 2 men were being advanced upon by a line of enemy troops, the recoil from the pistols which the Chinese were firing in this way would just allow the recoil, and it's attendant muzzle rise (which would now go to the SIDE, and not upwards)to advance the muzzle of the pistol to the next man in the enemy line. Bacically instead of shooting OVER the target, the muzzle would just be pointed at the next target almost automatically. HOWEVER...if you look closely the "gangsta-style" hold always seems to have the palm of the shooting hand pointed DOWNWARD. The Chinese method only works with the palm of the hand pointing UPWARD! Try that hold; it REALLY locks up the wrist when the palm is held upward! More useless information for ya'

Take Care- Dakotan

SB · February 23, 2000, 05:06 PM

Dakotan beat me to it! However, I must politely contend that the two techniques are so different that I doubt if they were ever related. But that's just me.

To emphasize, the Chinese really does seem much more valid because it naturally locks up your arm. The Gansta' style, however, seems like a pretty lazy and stupid way, with next to no redeeming value whatsoever.

If I ever see somebody use the Chinese style to spray a wide arc of bullets (say in an action flick), THEN I'll be quite impressed.

$.02

Nestor Rivera · February 23, 2000, 05:56 PM

Hate to mention it, but a LOT of WWII movies show the Thompson being used in this manner. Theroy is the Cutts Comp whould "slew" the gun from on side to the other.

dvc · February 24, 2000, 09:53 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SB:
The Gansta' style, however, seems like a pretty lazy and stupid way, with next to no redeeming value whatsoever.[/quote]

Lets see... lazy, stupid... no redeeming value... sounds like a Gangsta' alright!

Or should that be "'aight" ? You know what I'm sayin'?

[This message has been edited by dvc (edited February 24, 2000).]

Scott Evans · February 24, 2000, 11:11 AM

Dakotan
I’ve also, heard your explanation applied to the Thompson Sub Machine gun.

A friend of mine, a former SAS commando, told me that they carry in condition 3. I have seen him demonstrate a quick draw and chamber and fire. If I recall correctly his technique positioned the weapon sideways (palm) down for the first shot. Subsequent shots bring the weapon to a conventional position. He was always nervous around a group of cocked and locked 1911 tote’n Americans.

As far as logic for our modern day wayward yutes … and the reason for sideways firing positions… It has as much to do with shooting as droopy, drawers.

------------------
“This is my rifle, there many like it but this one is mine …”

chink · February 24, 2000, 01:26 PM

My theory
getting rid of the evidence is not the reason why gangsta shoot gnagsta style.
it is cuz when your pulling a drive-by, you don't want the casings to land in the back seat, or hit the homie sitting in back seat, cuz casing in the back seat is probable cause for the cop to search your car (but then again, being a minority and under the age of 25 is also probable cause for searching a car). gangsta style puts the casings on the ground and with a stolen gun, they can't trace the gun to the perp.

------------------
It ain't mah fault. did I do dat?

jthuang · February 24, 2000, 01:33 PM

I will muddy the waters further with my own theory.

On a certain episode of the A-Team, the Team corners a bunch of bad guys who are trying to run two nice ladies out of the soda business. Upon capturing the bad guys, Murdock (whose current obsession is healthy living) berates the bad guys for their substandard performance in trying to run the Team off the road, saying that their lackluster behavior is due to the fact that they are malnourished and unprepared for the task at hand.

He then goes on to explain, step by step, the proper method of blowing up a motor vehicle, using his Ruger AC556. One of the steps is to "point said weapon at a forty-five degree angle" (here is the origin of the gangsta hold, folks!) at the vehicle's gas tank. He then fires and blows up the bad guys's truck.

Conclusion: the gangsta hold is the product of that crazy fool Murdock and his foolish jibba-jabba. I pity the fools that listen to Murdock, who is always crashing planes and talking to his invisible dog.

I love it when a plan comes together.

Justin

------------------
Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania

[This message has been edited by jthuang (edited February 24, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by jthuang (edited February 24, 2000).]

SB · February 24, 2000, 01:53 PM

Hey chink. That's actually a pretty good hypothesis. I've tried this myself (for fun) with my Mini-14 and a hi-cap magazine.

What I've personally found is that it's much easier to just stick your entire upper body out as it also allows you to rotate your body to a greater degree. Also, I reckon the theory would not apply to a revolver and perhaps even shotguns. I just don't know.

However, I must say jthuang's hypothesis is most compelling. Nothing is impossible with Murdock!

12-34hom · February 24, 2000, 02:13 PM

Jibba - Jabba.... Man... Jthuang.... You really must be on the Jazz tonight!! That is the very essence and definition of "gansta style shooting" Just goes to show that everyone who watches public t.v. can learn something of value. Thank you for your insight on this often misunderstood subject. But i have to take issue with one of your points. MURDOCK, was often taken out of context, and alas... never given the full respect a man of his genius deserves! His methods so sublime that it took others of his mental stature to recognize it... but i did... more jibba jabba for the masses??? HA HA.

Red Bull · February 24, 2000, 05:05 PM

Someone said once it is because they can roll down the window a crack and shoot out of it with the gun sideways.

Let's not give them too much credit. These guys are idiots and they just want to look cool, not hit their target. In movies I have watched all my life, they hold the gun sideways. It just looks cool, so they do it in the movies, so the gansgta kids raised by Hollywierd do it.
And Hollywierd says that it does not influence these kids.....the evidence is right there: the kids learned when to, why to, and how to shoot from watching movies!

Mister G · February 24, 2000, 05:49 PM

I say - since the stupid "gangsta hold" greatly increases their chance of stovepiping, let's hope the gangbangers use it exclusively.

AMHsix · February 25, 2000, 06:39 AM

If you hold the gun sideways, it's easier to shoot over the bullet proof window around the cashier at the convenience store.

I usually see in movies/shows bad guys holding the gun about forhead height and angling the gun downwards. I guess holding the gun higher then the other guy makes you have the higher ground. These guys should be running the war colleges!

parabellum · February 25, 2000, 10:41 PM

Fellas, who in the hell cares the origin? All I know is that when I see someone holding a pistol like that, my contempt knows no bounds. I label 'em "MORON" in giant neon letters, and move on.

cjb · February 25, 2000, 10:59 PM

I belive I read about this in a gun rag a few years ago. Seems that a well known gangster in Chicago(back in the 20's) was cross eye dominant. He canted the gun so he could use his left eye to sight with. The other members of his gang adopted this style as part of thier "signature". We all know that this is where the "drive by shootings" started. ( with the Thompsons ) Now the new age " Gangstas" coppied this so they could be OLDSCHOOL! It then caught on from gang to gang until all of the punks were doing it. I agree, Keep doing it boys!, you'll hit something sooner or later!
( sorry I can't think of that gangster's name, It just dosen't come to mind)
CJB

jeepCJ · February 25, 2000, 11:00 PM

I believe that they are trying to make their "gang signs" and hold the gun at the same time. They also hold the gun so high as to draw attention away from the IWB holster fashonably located about an inch above their knees. I am sure that thunderwear would not be the holster of choice since they would chaulk up a lot of AD's with all that dig'n and grab'n they like to do down there. I heard they do have a few gangsta' training schools called "Side Site" and "Thunda' Ranch"

Dave

craigz · February 25, 2000, 11:50 PM

Actually, speaking of Walker, Texas Ranger, the first person I ever saw hold a gun sideways was Chuck Norris. I forget what movie. Certainly, for him it was nothing more than a style statement, considering that he has no real personality to speak of.

It's interesting to see what elements of pop culture these gang types adopt for their own. I heard about a Jamaican gang that based their whole subculture on The Outlaw Josey Wales.

SB · February 26, 2000, 03:12 AM

cjb's theory is the most plausible I've heard yet. Aside from academic curiosity, I don't care where it comes from either. I just hope they keep using it.

As an interesting aside, I've tested the Gangsta' style shooting for fun before with our Beretta Tomcat. Turns out that a small caliber gun like that will work quite nicely. Can't aim well with it in the first place, and stoves no more or less than shooting upright. While serving no practical purpose, it was workable and amusing nontheless.

February 21, 2000, 07:43 PM	#1
Karanas Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 1999 Location: Mandeville,LA Posts: 879	Something for the FWIW file: Considering the recurring discussion about gangsta' style shooting (holding the handgun sideways), I thought that this explanation of its origin might prove interesting to some. While it is largely acknowledged that this particular style originated in Hollywood, it has often been attributed to some sort of artistic license intended to simply make the BG in the movie look cool! There has been some deliberation about the possible technical rationale associated with this style, that there may be some advantage to shooting this way. The explanation I received was technical, but it had more to do with photography than ballistics. It seems that during the filming of some close-ups during a shootout scene, the brass ejecting from the handgun kept hitting the camera lens. As these lenses are very expen$ive, the director suggested that the actor hold the gun in a manner that would shift the trajectory of the spent brass in a safer direction. Voila! Gangsta' style shooting! Completely undocumented and unverifiable! FWIW!

February 21, 2000, 10:08 PM	#2
tombread Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 1999 Location: Indianapolis, IN USA Posts: 184	I always thought the reason gangbangers hold the gun sideways is because that's the way it comes in the box.

February 21, 2000, 10:38 PM	#3
Gwinnydapooh Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 978	I'm not sure what caused it but it's getting worse. The other night on Walker, Texas Ranger (why do I watch it again?) the bad guy was holding his gun so far gangsta style that it was actually upside down! He was having a long conversation at gunpoint with Walker so he changed the angle several times, but for awhile the gun was upside down with the sights pointed directly at the ground. Shows good flexibility in the forearms but I don't see the other advantage. Actually, Karanas' explanation makes more sense than the ones I've heard before.

February 21, 2000, 11:05 PM	#4
Herodotus Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Posts: 743	I cannot remember where, but I beleive I once read an article that said that some Israeli anti-terrorist orginization taught this method of holding an auto pistol sideways when drawing one's pistol in tight situations at very close quarters. This Israeli organization claimed it was a faster draw. You just pulled out your pistol and shoved it at the opponent, like a punch. They obviously were not aiming with thier sights. Whoever wrote the article thought the idea was pretty dubious. [This message has been edited by Herodotus (edited February 21, 2000).]

February 22, 2000, 01:00 AM	#5
LawDog Staff Emeritus Join Date: September 15, 1999 Location: Where am I going? Why am I in this handbasket? Posts: 4,194	I saw the Israeli style demonstrated once. The pistol was carried with an empty chamber. The demonstrator drew the pistol, and held it horizontal to enable him to chamber a round as he came on target. After the round was chambered, held the pistol in a conventioanl manner. I got the impression that a lot of Israeli's carried hammer down on an empty chamber. If I ever decide to carry that way, I'll check into the style. I was under the impression that the gangstas shot the pistols sideways so that they could keep track of the expended brass as it bounced off their foreheads. LawDog [This message has been edited by LawDog (edited February 22, 2000).]

February 22, 2000, 10:19 AM	#6
Jeff OTMG Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: OKC, OK & Austin, Tx Posts: 3,707	I thought I invented it in 1984-85. It was the only way to shoot a Seecamp .25 with any hope of accuracy. No sights on the gun, but there is a groove running down both sides that can be used as a sight.

February 22, 2000, 03:50 PM	#7
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	Lawdog is right - the Israelis figured out that it is quicker to go from empty chamber to loaded chamber using their technique. Their technique only applies to chambering the round. They transition to conventional stances immediately afterwards. It is particularly useful if yoou prefer the isoscoles stance, IMO. I always wanted to know why they carried with an empty chamber? - the guys I saw on the Discovery Channel carried 1911s and HiPowers. Erik

February 22, 2000, 04:33 PM	#8
jcoyoung Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2000 Location: Oak Forest, IL Posts: 661	I have a theory. The gangsta's CATCH the brass in their MOUTH, therefore eliminate any brass that can be used as evidence later. ------------------ "Ray guns don't vaporize Zorbonians, Zorbonians vaporize Zorbonians" The Far Side

February 22, 2000, 04:49 PM	#9
Dakotan Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 1999 Posts: 174	Yet another story to confuse the subject: Supposedly this originated from China. If a single man or 2 men were being advanced upon by a line of enemy troops, the recoil from the pistols which the Chinese were firing in this way would just allow the recoil, and it's attendant muzzle rise (which would now go to the SIDE, and not upwards)to advance the muzzle of the pistol to the next man in the enemy line. Bacically instead of shooting OVER the target, the muzzle would just be pointed at the next target almost automatically. HOWEVER...if you look closely the "gangsta-style" hold always seems to have the palm of the shooting hand pointed DOWNWARD. The Chinese method only works with the palm of the hand pointing UPWARD! Try that hold; it REALLY locks up the wrist when the palm is held upward! More useless information for ya' Take Care- Dakotan

February 23, 2000, 05:06 PM	#10
SB Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 1998 Posts: 415	Dakotan beat me to it! However, I must politely contend that the two techniques are so different that I doubt if they were ever related. But that's just me. To emphasize, the Chinese really does seem much more valid because it naturally locks up your arm. The Gansta' style, however, seems like a pretty lazy and stupid way, with next to no redeeming value whatsoever. If I ever see somebody use the Chinese style to spray a wide arc of bullets (say in an action flick), THEN I'll be quite impressed. $.02

February 23, 2000, 05:56 PM	#11
Nestor Rivera Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 1998 Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA Posts: 446	Hate to mention it, but a LOT of WWII movies show the Thompson being used in this manner. Theroy is the Cutts Comp whould "slew" the gun from on side to the other.

February 24, 2000, 09:53 AM	#12
dvc Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Posts: 387	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SB: The Gansta' style, however, seems like a pretty lazy and stupid way, with next to no redeeming value whatsoever.[/quote] Lets see... lazy, stupid... no redeeming value... sounds like a Gangsta' alright! Or should that be "'aight" ? You know what I'm sayin'? [This message has been edited by dvc (edited February 24, 2000).]

February 24, 2000, 11:11 AM	#13
Scott Evans Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 7, 1998 Location: Jacksonville, NC Posts: 1,380	Dakotan I’ve also, heard your explanation applied to the Thompson Sub Machine gun. A friend of mine, a former SAS commando, told me that they carry in condition 3. I have seen him demonstrate a quick draw and chamber and fire. If I recall correctly his technique positioned the weapon sideways (palm) down for the first shot. Subsequent shots bring the weapon to a conventional position. He was always nervous around a group of cocked and locked 1911 tote’n Americans. As far as logic for our modern day wayward yutes … and the reason for sideways firing positions… It has as much to do with shooting as droopy, drawers. ------------------ “This is my rifle, there many like it but this one is mine …”

February 24, 2000, 01:26 PM	#14
chink Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1998 Location: saratoga, ca, usa Posts: 806	My theory getting rid of the evidence is not the reason why gangsta shoot gnagsta style. it is cuz when your pulling a drive-by, you don't want the casings to land in the back seat, or hit the homie sitting in back seat, cuz casing in the back seat is probable cause for the cop to search your car (but then again, being a minority and under the age of 25 is also probable cause for searching a car). gangsta style puts the casings on the ground and with a stolen gun, they can't trace the gun to the perp. ------------------ It ain't mah fault. did I do dat?

February 24, 2000, 01:33 PM	#15
jthuang Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2000 Posts: 823	I will muddy the waters further with my own theory. On a certain episode of the A-Team, the Team corners a bunch of bad guys who are trying to run two nice ladies out of the soda business. Upon capturing the bad guys, Murdock (whose current obsession is healthy living) berates the bad guys for their substandard performance in trying to run the Team off the road, saying that their lackluster behavior is due to the fact that they are malnourished and unprepared for the task at hand. He then goes on to explain, step by step, the proper method of blowing up a motor vehicle, using his Ruger AC556. One of the steps is to "point said weapon at a forty-five degree angle" (here is the origin of the gangsta hold, folks!) at the vehicle's gas tank. He then fires and blows up the bad guys's truck. Conclusion: the gangsta hold is the product of that crazy fool Murdock and his foolish jibba-jabba. I pity the fools that listen to Murdock, who is always crashing planes and talking to his invisible dog. I love it when a plan comes together. Justin ------------------ Justin T. Huang, Esq. late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania [This message has been edited by jthuang (edited February 24, 2000).] [This message has been edited by jthuang (edited February 24, 2000).]

February 24, 2000, 01:53 PM	#16
SB Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 1998 Posts: 415	Hey chink. That's actually a pretty good hypothesis. I've tried this myself (for fun) with my Mini-14 and a hi-cap magazine. What I've personally found is that it's much easier to just stick your entire upper body out as it also allows you to rotate your body to a greater degree. Also, I reckon the theory would not apply to a revolver and perhaps even shotguns. I just don't know. However, I must say jthuang's hypothesis is most compelling. Nothing is impossible with Murdock!

February 24, 2000, 02:13 PM	#17
12-34hom Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 1999 Location: Iowa - northeastern Posts: 1,810	Jibba - Jabba.... Man... Jthuang.... You really must be on the Jazz tonight!! That is the very essence and definition of "gansta style shooting" Just goes to show that everyone who watches public t.v. can learn something of value. Thank you for your insight on this often misunderstood subject. But i have to take issue with one of your points. MURDOCK, was often taken out of context, and alas... never given the full respect a man of his genius deserves! His methods so sublime that it took others of his mental stature to recognize it... but i did... more jibba jabba for the masses??? HA HA.

February 24, 2000, 05:05 PM	#18
Red Bull Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 1999 Posts: 564	Someone said once it is because they can roll down the window a crack and shoot out of it with the gun sideways. Let's not give them too much credit. These guys are idiots and they just want to look cool, not hit their target. In movies I have watched all my life, they hold the gun sideways. It just looks cool, so they do it in the movies, so the gansgta kids raised by Hollywierd do it. And Hollywierd says that it does not influence these kids.....the evidence is right there: the kids learned when to, why to, and how to shoot from watching movies!

February 24, 2000, 05:49 PM	#19
Mister G Junior Member Join Date: February 3, 2000 Posts: 8	I say - since the stupid "gangsta hold" greatly increases their chance of stovepiping, let's hope the gangbangers use it exclusively.

February 25, 2000, 06:39 AM	#20
AMHsix Member Join Date: February 12, 2000 Posts: 74	If you hold the gun sideways, it's easier to shoot over the bullet proof window around the cashier at the convenience store. I usually see in movies/shows bad guys holding the gun about forhead height and angling the gun downwards. I guess holding the gun higher then the other guy makes you have the higher ground. These guys should be running the war colleges!

February 25, 2000, 10:41 PM	#21
parabellum Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 251	Fellas, who in the hell cares the origin? All I know is that when I see someone holding a pistol like that, my contempt knows no bounds. I label 'em "MORON" in giant neon letters, and move on.

February 25, 2000, 10:59 PM	#22
cjb Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Posts: 265	I belive I read about this in a gun rag a few years ago. Seems that a well known gangster in Chicago(back in the 20's) was cross eye dominant. He canted the gun so he could use his left eye to sight with. The other members of his gang adopted this style as part of thier "signature". We all know that this is where the "drive by shootings" started. ( with the Thompsons ) Now the new age " Gangstas" coppied this so they could be OLDSCHOOL! It then caught on from gang to gang until all of the punks were doing it. I agree, Keep doing it boys!, you'll hit something sooner or later! ( sorry I can't think of that gangster's name, It just dosen't come to mind) CJB

February 25, 2000, 11:00 PM	#23
jeepCJ Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2000 Location: Winter Haven, Sunny Florida Posts: 100	I believe that they are trying to make their "gang signs" and hold the gun at the same time. They also hold the gun so high as to draw attention away from the IWB holster fashonably located about an inch above their knees. I am sure that thunderwear would not be the holster of choice since they would chaulk up a lot of AD's with all that dig'n and grab'n they like to do down there. I heard they do have a few gangsta' training schools called "Side Site" and "Thunda' Ranch" Dave

February 25, 2000, 11:50 PM	#24
craigz Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 1999 Posts: 395	Actually, speaking of Walker, Texas Ranger, the first person I ever saw hold a gun sideways was Chuck Norris. I forget what movie. Certainly, for him it was nothing more than a style statement, considering that he has no real personality to speak of. It's interesting to see what elements of pop culture these gang types adopt for their own. I heard about a Jamaican gang that based their whole subculture on The Outlaw Josey Wales.

February 26, 2000, 03:12 AM	#25
SB Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 1998 Posts: 415	cjb's theory is the most plausible I've heard yet. Aside from academic curiosity, I don't care where it comes from either. I just hope they keep using it. As an interesting aside, I've tested the Gangsta' style shooting for fun before with our Beretta Tomcat. Turns out that a small caliber gun like that will work quite nicely. Can't aim well with it in the first place, and stoves no more or less than shooting upright. While serving no practical purpose, it was workable and amusing nontheless.