Sig P238 - First Impressions

[KyJim]

Sig P238 - Initial Impressions - Part 1

Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to get to the range yet, but here are some initial impressions of my new Sig P238.

I have carried a Colt Mustang .380 off and on for about 20 years.It was the most accurate small pistol I've ever shot or, maybe it's more accurate to say I have shot it more accurately than any other pocket pistol. It has been 100% reliable, too. Still, I was beginning to worry about parts replacement if it broke since it has been out of production for a while now. I recently retired my Mustang from active duty in favor of the Ruger LCP.

When Sig announced they were they were coming out with a clone of the Mustang, I knew I wanted one. I got on an early list with my gun dealer who said Sig expected to start shipping at the end of May. I didn't really believe it because of the long delays with the LCP from Ruger. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised to get a call a few days ago that the Sig P238 had arrived. I finally got by the dealer and picked up the pistol.

I went with the two-tone finish and elected not to get night sights since it is a pocket pistol and is more of a point and shoot type of gun. Opinions differ. When I put my name on the purchase list, I wasn't given the choice of grip color. I was glad to see mine came in black, though I expect replacement grips to become available shortly. Fit and finish on the small pistol are very nice. The mag release button is serrated which adds to the refined look of the gun. The frontstrap has wide serrations which is supposed to help with grip purchase. I could not tell a lot of difference in how it felt and how my Mustang, without serrations, felt. Perhaps I'll be able to tell more of a difference when I shoot it. At any rate, it is nice looking.






Sig lists the weight of the P238 at 15.2 ounces without a mag. I've seen reports the Mustang weighs 18 ounces. The smaller postal scales to which I have access were on the fritz. I could verify on a larger scale that the Mustang is heavier. Here are how the two pistols size up next to each other.



The sights on the Sig of the two dot variety (or post and dot). They seem to offer quick acquisition which is what is needed if you're going to use sights on a pocket pistol. They should be quicker to sight than the Mustang's but it remains to be seen if they are as accurate.



More to follow . . .

[comn-cents]

Nice can't wait to get one.
Enjoy
You are the third person on here today talking about their new sig 380acp

[kentucky_smith]

Mine shoots great!

[KyJim]

Sig P238 - First Impressions Part 2

I had read reports that the magazines between the Sig and the Colt were interchangeable. I couldn't verify this on the Sig website, so I eyeballed the mags. They appeared nearly identical. In fact, I had a couple of Mustang mags made by Metalform Industries which is a Colt OEM. I compared one with the OEM mag for the Sig. They are almost identical and I believe Metalform may be making the Sig mags.





Only the base plate is slightly different between the two.



I decided to go ahead and try the Sig mag in the Colt and the Colt mag in the Sig. Voila! They fit. The first pic shows the Metalform brand Mustang mag in the Sig and the second shows an extended length Colt OEM Mustang mag in the Sig. I have no doubt they will function when I can get to the range.





I hope to get to the range in the next few days and try out the new pistol. Unfortunately, range time will be limited due to ammo availability. I'll report back on how it shoots.

[kentucky_smith]

The Mustang mags work fine.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...2&postcount=24

[KyJim]

I got to the range this afternoon and put about 50 rounds of Aguilla and WWB through the Sig. I also took along my Mustang for comparison purposes.

I like to shoot point of aim for a defensive carry pistol. The Sig shot maybe 3 inches high and an 1 and half inches to the left at 7 yards. I shot a few with an informal rest and believe this to be the true impact point. With a minor adjustment on my part, my shots were in the black, though still just a bit high. They were all grouped together pretty well. For comparison, my Mustang was pretty much right at point of aim.

Subjectively the trigger pull on the Sig felt just barely heavier than the Mustang's. I suspect it will light a bit after I shoot it more. The sights on the Sig were quicker to acquire and easier to see than the Mustang's, though not as precise as the Mustang's. This is not a problem in a short-range defensive handgun.

The Sig had zero failures to eject and one failure to feed which was due to the magazine catch releasing the mag to drop a quarter inch or so from the magwell. On another shot, the slide failed to lock back because the mag had again been partially ejected. It appears that my thumb was depressing the mag release button. After I adjusted my customary semi-auto grip, I experienced no more problems.

I can also report that, as I suspected and kentucky_smith reported, the 238 takes the same magazine as the Colt Mustang. I tried three different Mustang mags in the Sig, and all three worked well.

That's pretty much it. Except for having to keep my thumb off the mag release button, I couldn't be more pleased. I think the Sig is inherently just as accurate as the Colt but that the combat style sights on the 238 make it more difficult to shoot as accurately as the Mustang.

[guypowell]

Good post and an excellent looking pistol! Congratulations. Having sold a colt Gov't Model 380 several years ago, and always regretting it, I'm looking forward to a P238 to go with the rest of my SIGs. They SEEM to be smaller than my Bersa 380, therefore easier to pocket carry.

[KyJim]

They SEEM to be smaller than my Bersa 380, therefore easier to pocket carry.

I have a Bersa Thunder .380 (not the CC size) and the Sig is quite a bit smaller though not any lighter. I never carry the Bersa in a pocket but expect to mostly pocket carry the Sig.

[RayMich]

KyJim,

Any more impressions on the P380?

Have you been able to shoot it more? Any problems with it?

How well is it working for you as a pocket gun?

Thanks.

[rsxr22]

I love those 238's! great post

[Que]

I shot my 238 for the first time this afternoon. The recoil was very light for a .380, probably less than my 232. At fifteen yards the gun is dead accurate with all shot either in the ten ring or just above it with a tedency to shoot just a little high but group tight. At seven yards the gun was dead center in the ten ring in a relatively small group right around 2.5 inches. I was using Blazer Brass as the range had just got some in. With the Golden Sabers that will be used for SD I would imagine even better accuracy possible. That I was getting results like that from the git-go shows just how fine of a pistol that this is. I used both SIG and Metalform Mustang mags. I'd say that the gun has great potential, but first time out it has already realized much of it.

The only fly in the ointment was a failure to feed right at the end. I realized that I had cleaned up the gun before I shot it and had failed to re-lube it. It was running really dry and after firing some forty rounds the lack of lube became an issue. This happened to me once with a Smith CS9. Stupid, stupid, stupid. My trip to the range was rather impromptu (got released from jury duty early), basically found time, and this threw me off. Fortunately there was no damage to the gun and I have no doubt that this issue will be resolved by proper lubrication. This leads me to believe that the 238 may prefer to run just a bit on the juicy side.


My aluminum grips were shipped today. I wasn't overly fond of the Blackwoods. If I can find PowRballs I may use them along with or instead of the Golden Sabers.

[KyJim]

KyJim,

Any more impressions on the P380?

Have you been able to shoot it more? Any problems with it?

How well is it working for you as a pocket gun?

Thanks.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I have not shot it very much since then but continue to like it. I haven't carried it yet. I had also just purchased a Ruger LCP, and with .380 ammo hard to find and expensive, I put my rounds through the Ruger because I carry it when wearing shorts.

I plan on getting to the range this weekend and, if no problems with the Sig, will start carrying it as a backup now that cool weather is approaching.

[Troyser]

I bought my sig P238 about a month after it came out. What a mistake It has given me nothing but problems. Sig’s customer service is by far the worst I have ever dealt with. First it had failure to fire, failure to go full battery, jams and failure to extract. Sent it in got it back about two weeks later not bad. Then went to fire it. Every clip had one or more failures to extract or jams. Contacted Sig I was instructed they need 500 rounds of FMJ put through before fully broke in and to expect the problems. After allot of time searching finally gathered together 700 over time and put them though. I would shoot any where from 50-100 rounds at a time then clean using Hoppes #9 and M-Pro 7 and Break free CLP changing it up each cleaning. Still failures to extract and jams. Sent it into Sig on the 4th of December After not hearing from them for a couple weeks emailed asking about the status of my pistol. I was told it was sent out on the 8th. I told them I did not receive it yet it then being the 20th of Dec. They did not seem to think it was an issue that I never received my gun. I then got the fed ex tracking number and found someone else had received it and signed for it. Sig had sent it to the wrong address. When I told Sig about this they down played it as no big deal stating they would get the gun back. I told them I did not want it back not knowing what may have happened to or been done with it while in a strangers hand who didn’t even have to pass a back ground check. It was not until the ATF and Local law enforcement were involved that When I contacted sig they told me they would replace it with a new gun of the same model. The gun they sent out to the wrong person had moved after and the gun is lost. I asked about the 500 rounds of ammo and after talking to Diana Chapman the manager of Sig’s customer service was instructed for another $100 I could buy a different p238 model. I can pay that amount here if I wanted that. I asked about all the time I had to spend with them and they would do nothing. They want to charge me full MSRP for any other model but when I asked about a refund they said they would do nothing about the ammo and time I had spent with them to break in the pistol and would only refund the store I bought the gun from. I told them I worked at a gun store and had always in the past recommended them as a high quality firearm and was told I was not their only customer. Sig’s quality over the past 5 years has greatly decreased the German company who bought out the Swiss need to reevaluate their system and bring back the quality and dependability that Sig used to be. At this moment I am still in the process with Sig about a resolution I told them I do not want the same model I had issues with and wanted some compensation for them loosing my gun as well as all the money I had spent breaking in the first. At this time they are doing nothing. And basically told me take it or leave it.

[Flint Ridge]

Sounds like everything normal at Sig "Customer Service". I have one, let's see 750 through it so far. Got a new mag today, that might help. So will have to put 200 more rounds through it. I have spent just about as much on it as for it. We don't want to even talk about my time.

Nice job posting here, let everyone know. If mine every gets to reliable quality, I will change my mind. This is how Sig works now.

P238
O
Sig

[dirksterg30]

Those of you with P238's, what do your mag followers look like? I have 3 P238 mags, and each one has a different follower. Here's what they look like:



When using the middle magazine in the picture above, my wife got this jam - the spent case was actually wedged into the feed lips of the magazine:



I received the magazine on the right after a call to SIG complaining about the magazine pictured in the middle. A call to SIG about the difference between the followers pictured was rather pointless. I asked which follower was correct; the SIG employee told me the one that feeds properly is.

So what do your followers look like?

[DasFriek]

Sucks to hear that Sigs CS is so crappy,at least with my Taurus guns ive not had to deal with their CS which seems to have improved.

I think most peoples experiences with this gun has been very positive,sucks you got a bad one.

You can find many posts of mine in alot of P238 threads discussing on how to fix feed issues,and extraction issues should be handled just like any 1911.
The feed issues are most common and the reason is the gun is so small that it only takes very small adjustments to either screw it up or fix a feed issue.
Not much room for error in small guns is what im getting at.

But if your a hands on type guy and dont mind trying to adjust it yourself it isn't hard,its just time consuming even with a bit of knowledge.

Ive explained it several times in other threads if anyone is interested on how to adjust the mags,just search "P238" or you can pm me for a direct question.
Im NO smith or expert,just a guy who learned how to adjust his mags to make them perfect.

I can see extraction issues being an easy thing to happen also,the reason ive found is the extractor is really tensioned tight.Google can tell you how to adjust the extractor for a 1911 as its the same way in this gun.

Ill also mention i don't look down at anyone who doesn't want to tough their gun with a tool and yes it should work out of the box,and when it don't you should send it in for repair.Im just the type who is impatient and like to learn and fix things.

[Homerboy]

Glad you like it, but I think that gun is ugly. The top looks like a SIG slide, but those awful grips just throw the whole thing out. Not only the pattern of them, but they look wide and way too straight, like a 2X4.

[Troyser]

Heard from Ron Cohens office yesterday still same thing. They want a $100 for any other p238 no other models available. I forgot to mention when I asked for the refund they would not even cover tax. They haven't even given me any type of apology. I want the old Sig's when the Swiss company still owned them not the German fabric makers.

[DasFriek]

I bought my sig P238 about a month after it came out. What a mistake It has given me nothing but problems. Sig’s customer service is by far the worst I have ever dealt with. First it had failure to fire, failure to go full battery, jams and failure to extract. Sent it in got it back about two weeks later not bad. Then went to fire it. Every clip had one or more failures to extract or jams. Contacted Sig I was instructed they need 500 rounds of FMJ put through before fully broke in and to expect the problems. After allot of time searching finally gathered together 700 over time and put them though. I would shoot any where from 50-100 rounds at a time then clean using Hoppes #9 and M-Pro 7 and Break free CLP changing it up each cleaning. Still failures to extract and jams. Sent it into Sig on the 4th of December After not hearing from them for a couple weeks emailed asking about the status of my pistol. I was told it was sent out on the 8th. I told them I did not receive it yet it then being the 20th of Dec. They did not seem to think it was an issue that I never received my gun. I then got the fed ex tracking number and found someone else had received it and signed for it. Sig had sent it to the wrong address. When I told Sig about this they down played it as no big deal stating they would get the gun back. I told them I did not want it back not knowing what may have happened to or been done with it while in a strangers hand who didn’t even have to pass a back ground check. It was not until the ATF and Local law enforcement were involved that When I contacted sig they told me they would replace it with a new gun of the same model. The gun they sent out to the wrong person had moved after and the gun is lost. I asked about the 500 rounds of ammo and after talking to Diana Chapman the manager of Sig’s customer service was instructed for another $100 I could buy a different p238 model. I can pay that amount here if I wanted that. I asked about all the time I had to spend with them and they would do nothing. They want to charge me full MSRP for any other model but when I asked about a refund they said they would do nothing about the ammo and time I had spent with them to break in the pistol and would only refund the store I bought the gun from. I told them I worked at a gun store and had always in the past recommended them as a high quality firearm and was told I was not their only customer. Sig’s quality over the past 5 years has greatly decreased the German company who bought out the Swiss need to reevaluate their system and bring back the quality and dependability that Sig used to be. At this moment I am still in the process with Sig about a resolution I told them I do not want the same model I had issues with and wanted some compensation for them loosing my gun as well as all the money I had spent breaking in the first. At this time they are doing nothing. And basically told me take it or leave it.

Please try to use paragraphs and not repeating the whole story and just adding a bit more info on the end of a very long post i read before.

We get it,you don't like the P238 and dont want another.Take the one they offer you as a replacement and sell it as new in box and recoup most of your money.
Im not accusing you of anything,but i do find it odd so many people were rude,uncooperative and non sympathetic while they were CEO's and CS reps who jobs it is to do exactly the opposite of what you describe.

[Troyser]

Sorry I forgot I already posted on here and changed the post. I never spoke with Ron, and this whole thing is a nightmare to me. Thats a big thing that blows me away is how no matter who I talk to nothing happens. Ron's chief of staff was not rude in her email just matter of fact as this is what is going to happen.
Victoria was great to deal with, Diana Chapman the manager was the worst. It comes across as the attitude of the company to me.

[9mm1033]

Troyser,

The gun they sent out to the wrong person had moved...

What's the lastest from LE? Is it out there somewhere? I wonder if Sig is responsible legally? I never heard of this happening.

[longlane]

Troyser: Ray Carter took care of me when my wife's NIB SIG acted up from day one. Problem solved. Please share with us the name of the CS rep(s) you've dealt with, so that we'll know who to avoid in the future.

[Troyser]

Law enforcement is involved the ATF and Sheriffs dept went to the house and the persons moved. Sig only required someone over 21 to be able to sign for my gun some B Evans signed for it and I'm looking into who that is in case I need to take this to court. When Sig kept down playing the severity of this I asked if it happened to them often, one response was no, another from Diana Chapman the customer service rep said guns get lost all the time.

I have called every day since I asked Scott Rudolph (customer service rep who emailed me my shipping label), and received multiple reps two were decent one was a guy who works in the sales dept normally and Victoria. Every one else was nice until I stated my problem then basically the attitudes changed. That's how I went to Diana. I was told she is the person who would have been able to resolve my issue. When I said I wanted compensation she then became rude and disrespectful.

I am now talking to Tabitha Wade or atleast trying to. I sent a couple emails stating I would just take the same gun I had but wanted atleast an extra mag. It's been two days and no reply I called twice and left messages and no call back either.

I had traded a LCP with the crimson trace laser plus $80 for the p238 at a gun show the sig was brand new from a local dealer. I wish I had my LCP back. It never once had a jam on me. And the laser made up for the lack of sights on it.

[colospgsAVID]

+1 for the LCP?
Though I do love me a Sig.

[dances with guns]