Marlin 336, having some serious issues. Need help!

BoneDigger · September 26, 2009, 07:33 PM

I bought a used Marlin 336 in 30-30. Today I took it to the range and tried to get the new scope zeroed. I was using Leverevolution ammo. I couldn't keep the shots in a 6 inch circle at 50 yards. I'd get close, then the next shot would be 5 inches off. I started cursing the new scope, then I noticed something. It seemed that the bullets were making a strange entrance hole in the target, almost elongated. Then upon closer inspection it looked like the bullets were literally entering the target on their side!!! It was almost a perfect silhouette of the bullet. What would make a bullet tumble like that?

The bore looks good on the gun and I can't see an issue on the crown, but maybe I'm missing something? Oh, and yes, I verified that it does say 30-30 both on the ammo and on the barrel.

HELP!!!

Todd

.300 Weatherby Mag · September 26, 2009, 07:39 PM

Did you only shoot the leverevolution ammo through the gun??

GLK · September 26, 2009, 08:24 PM

Send it to Marlin they will tell you(or to a good Marlin smith).

BoneDigger · September 26, 2009, 09:23 PM

Only shot Leverevolution through it, but although I realize that different loads shoot differently, I would think ANY load would shoot without tumbling???

Todd

DanB · September 26, 2009, 09:44 PM

At what range were you shooting?

LE ammo has run perfect in every levergun I have ran it through.

About to pop the cherry on a 1895G this week. LE ammo is one that will be fed through it.

Before you call Marlin or a gunsmith. Go back out to the range with at least 2 different ammo brands and see what they do. Isolate the ammo to the ammo or gun then proceed.

BoneDigger · September 26, 2009, 10:45 PM

I was shooting at 25 then 50 yards. I wonder if the LeverEvolution ammo maybe isn't so good for the older (1960s) model Marlin?

Todd

cyclopsshooter · September 26, 2009, 11:01 PM

1998 production rifle with a crappy 3-9 simmons

Sarge · September 26, 2009, 11:15 PM

Give that barrel a good scrubbing and try again. A gun that old may have been shot with something that fouled the bore badly.

V.Hunter · September 26, 2009, 11:32 PM

How old is the rifle. Not all rifles have the same type of rifling or twist rate to properly stabilize the new ammunition.

Swampghost · September 27, 2009, 12:01 AM

Dang! I have one that will shoot next to cyclops. I can't imagine yawing that much in 25-50 yds.

If you're certain that this is the problem, send it back.

CraigC · September 27, 2009, 12:47 AM

How does the bore look?

BoneDigger · September 27, 2009, 09:18 AM

I'll check it out again this afternoon and give it a good bore scrubbing with solvent. The gun, I believe, is a 1960s model. If I remember it was something like 1968 or so.

I am going to try shooting with some Remington Core Lokt and see what happens and I'll report back. To say that this concerns me would be an understatement. I hope I didn't just blow $250 on a crappy gun...

Todd

3StrikesNC · September 27, 2009, 06:52 PM

Get some Barnes CR-10 Bore Cleaner and keep passing cleaning patches through it until clean. I just did this to a Mauser, it took me four hours to get it clean.
Barnes is excellent copper cleaner.

Couzin · September 27, 2009, 07:26 PM

Two guesses - the bore is shot out or it (the 336) does not like the lever-evolution stuff. Try a different ammo. If it is still keyholing and wandering (assuming the scope is not loose/loose reticle) - then it is probably shot out. A shot out barrel will occasionally be a little dark or bluish looking.

Told you should have bought my old 30-30 marlin

zebulonsmith · September 27, 2009, 09:10 PM

That old, it's probably got the micro-groove rifling. I have one from around that era (1964) that will shoot sub moa with a good soft point, but haven't tried the new Hornady stuff. I'd love to, but I hate buying factory ammunition at today's prices and they don't sell just the bullets.

j.chappell · September 27, 2009, 09:48 PM

Try some plain old Federal Power Shok and let us know what happens. I think you will find that your rifle does not like the new ammunition.

J.

BoneDigger · September 27, 2009, 10:17 PM

OK, I cleaned the bore really well and checked it over with a bore light. The micro-groove rifling seems to be in good shape, but perhaps I don't have an eye for it. I also checked the bore and it looks good to my untrained eye. I bought some Remington 170 grain today and I'm going to hopefully get a chance to try it next weekend.

Cuzin, yep, I guess you're right!

Todd

BlackFeather · September 28, 2009, 12:59 AM

hmmm.... I wonder whether its the grooving or a burr... I wonder whether its the velocity of the bullet in an older rifle causing the bullet to wobble from maybe disformation... if its at all possible, one of those ideas I get when I think to hard...

Oilburner350 · September 28, 2009, 10:29 AM

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...sku=0000330395

You can load your own.

As for the key hole, I think the rate of twist is the same as the ballard rifle guns. I would check the muzzle or slug the barrel. It may be on the loose side. I know cast bullets don't like it when the microgrooving gets fowled.

CraigC · September 28, 2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

That old, it's probably got the micro-groove rifling.

You fellers need to get with the program. All the .30-30's have had Microgroove rifling since the concept was born, up to present. Only the big bores and pistol cartridge guns have switched to Ballard-style rifling for more consistent performance with cast bullets.

zebulonsmith · September 28, 2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

You fellers need to get with the program. All the .30-30's have had Microgroove rifling since the concept was born, up to present. Only the big bores and pistol cartridge guns have switched to Ballard-style rifling for more consistent performance with cast bullets.

After some research, looks like you're right. On the other hand, the XLR series, which is designed to take advantage of the new Hornady bullets, comes with 24" of ballard rifling while the standard 336 has a 20" barrel with micro-groove rifling. That's quite a difference and might be where the keyholeing is coming from.

http://marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/xlr/336.asp

PetahW · September 28, 2009, 03:09 PM

I used LeverEvolution ammo in my ca. 1965 Marlin .35 SC, w/o any issues, before I let one of my pals talk me into selling it to him.

The LE's DID impact 3"-4" higher on target with the same sight setting (peep) as for the Remmy factory ammo I've been using in it for years.

.

Butterbean · September 28, 2009, 03:25 PM

I have a early 60s Marlin 336 .35 rem and I shoot Leverevoltions with it and have had no problems at 100 yds. All mine are perfect circles. It does tend to shot a little low and left, but it did when I Grandfather owned it also

mapsjanhere · September 28, 2009, 04:56 PM

Keyholing at 50 yards would indicate either a complete lack of stabilization or a serious off-axis knock on leaving the barrel. Since you said your muzzle looks good the latter is unlikely. My guess is severe leading of the microgrooves, and the jacketed rounds are just skipping over the grooves. If the previous owner used hot loads behind cast bullets, you might have a nice smooth bore.
I hope the cleaning did the trick, good luck this weekend.

September 26, 2009, 07:33 PM	#1
BoneDigger Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Location: Tyler, TX Posts: 660	Marlin 336, having some serious issues. Need help! I bought a used Marlin 336 in 30-30. Today I took it to the range and tried to get the new scope zeroed. I was using Leverevolution ammo. I couldn't keep the shots in a 6 inch circle at 50 yards. I'd get close, then the next shot would be 5 inches off. I started cursing the new scope, then I noticed something. It seemed that the bullets were making a strange entrance hole in the target, almost elongated. Then upon closer inspection it looked like the bullets were literally entering the target on their side!!! It was almost a perfect silhouette of the bullet. What would make a bullet tumble like that? The bore looks good on the gun and I can't see an issue on the crown, but maybe I'm missing something? Oh, and yes, I verified that it does say 30-30 both on the ammo and on the barrel. HELP!!! Todd

September 26, 2009, 08:24 PM	#3
GLK Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2000 Location: Brandon FL USA Posts: 527	Send it to Marlin they will tell you(or to a good Marlin smith). __________________ Just face shoot the criminal was the advice I was given. Old tech new tech, face shooting will nearly always take the wrong doing out of a bad guy.

September 26, 2009, 09:23 PM	#4
BoneDigger Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Location: Tyler, TX Posts: 660	Yes Only shot Leverevolution through it, but although I realize that different loads shoot differently, I would think ANY load would shoot without tumbling??? Todd

September 26, 2009, 11:15 PM	#8
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,458	Give that barrel a good scrubbing and try again. A gun that old may have been shot with something that fouled the bore badly. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

September 27, 2009, 12:01 AM	#10
Swampghost Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: Florida, east coast Posts: 2,106	Dang! I have one that will shoot next to cyclops. I can't imagine yawing that much in 25-50 yds. If you're certain that this is the problem, send it back. __________________ NRA Patron Member

September 26, 2009, 07:39 PM	#2
.300 Weatherby Mag Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Posts: 1,777	Did you only shoot the leverevolution ammo through the gun??

September 26, 2009, 09:44 PM	#5
DanB Member Join Date: August 21, 2009 Posts: 28	At what range were you shooting? LE ammo has run perfect in every levergun I have ran it through. About to pop the cherry on a 1895G this week. LE ammo is one that will be fed through it. Before you call Marlin or a gunsmith. Go back out to the range with at least 2 different ammo brands and see what they do. Isolate the ammo to the ammo or gun then proceed.

September 26, 2009, 10:45 PM	#6
BoneDigger Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Location: Tyler, TX Posts: 660	I was shooting at 25 then 50 yards. I wonder if the LeverEvolution ammo maybe isn't so good for the older (1960s) model Marlin? Todd

September 26, 2009, 11:01 PM	#7
cyclopsshooter Junior Member Join Date: September 26, 2009 Posts: 9	1998 production rifle with a crappy 3-9 simmons

September 26, 2009, 11:32 PM	#9
V.Hunter Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Posts: 159	How old is the rifle. Not all rifles have the same type of rifling or twist rate to properly stabilize the new ammunition.

September 27, 2009, 12:47 AM	#11
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	How does the bore look?

September 27, 2009, 09:18 AM	#12
BoneDigger Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Location: Tyler, TX Posts: 660	I'll check it out again this afternoon and give it a good bore scrubbing with solvent. The gun, I believe, is a 1960s model. If I remember it was something like 1968 or so. I am going to try shooting with some Remington Core Lokt and see what happens and I'll report back. To say that this concerns me would be an understatement. I hope I didn't just blow $250 on a crappy gun... Todd

September 27, 2009, 06:52 PM	#13
3StrikesNC Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: in a house Posts: 473	Get some Barnes CR-10 Bore Cleaner and keep passing cleaning patches through it until clean. I just did this to a Mauser, it took me four hours to get it clean. Barnes is excellent copper cleaner.

September 27, 2009, 07:26 PM	#14
Couzin Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2006 Location: Terrell, Texas Posts: 240	Two guesses - the bore is shot out or it (the 336) does not like the lever-evolution stuff. Try a different ammo. If it is still keyholing and wandering (assuming the scope is not loose/loose reticle) - then it is probably shot out. A shot out barrel will occasionally be a little dark or bluish looking. Told you should have bought my old 30-30 marlin

September 27, 2009, 09:10 PM	#15
zebulonsmith Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2007 Posts: 307	That old, it's probably got the micro-groove rifling. I have one from around that era (1964) that will shoot sub moa with a good soft point, but haven't tried the new Hornady stuff. I'd love to, but I hate buying factory ammunition at today's prices and they don't sell just the bullets. __________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - The Dalai Lama

September 27, 2009, 09:48 PM	#16
j.chappell Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2008 Posts: 1,125	Try some plain old Federal Power Shok and let us know what happens. I think you will find that your rifle does not like the new ammunition. J.

September 27, 2009, 10:17 PM	#17
BoneDigger Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Location: Tyler, TX Posts: 660	30-30 OK, I cleaned the bore really well and checked it over with a bore light. The micro-groove rifling seems to be in good shape, but perhaps I don't have an eye for it. I also checked the bore and it looks good to my untrained eye. I bought some Remington 170 grain today and I'm going to hopefully get a chance to try it next weekend. Cuzin, yep, I guess you're right! Todd

September 28, 2009, 12:59 AM	#18
BlackFeather Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2009 Location: West Coast Posts: 450	hmmm.... I wonder whether its the grooving or a burr... I wonder whether its the velocity of the bullet in an older rifle causing the bullet to wobble from maybe disformation... if its at all possible, one of those ideas I get when I think to hard... __________________ "Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men." - Miyamoto Musashi [Insert random irrelevant religious quote here]

September 28, 2009, 10:29 AM	#19
Oilburner350 Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Posts: 102	http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...sku=0000330395 You can load your own. As for the key hole, I think the rate of twist is the same as the ballard rifle guns. I would check the muzzle or slug the barrel. It may be on the loose side. I know cast bullets don't like it when the microgrooving gets fowled.

September 28, 2009, 03:09 PM	#22
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	I used LeverEvolution ammo in my ca. 1965 Marlin .35 SC, w/o any issues, before I let one of my pals talk me into selling it to him. The LE's DID impact 3"-4" higher on target with the same sight setting (peep) as for the Remmy factory ammo I've been using in it for years. .

September 28, 2009, 03:25 PM	#23
Butterbean Member Join Date: December 2, 2008 Location: NC Posts: 59	I have a early 60s Marlin 336 .35 rem and I shoot Leverevoltions with it and have had no problems at 100 yds. All mine are perfect circles. It does tend to shot a little low and left, but it did when I Grandfather owned it also __________________ The war is coming to the streets of America and if you are not keeping and bearing and practicing with your arms then you will be helpless and you will be the victim of evil. Ted Nugent

September 28, 2009, 04:56 PM	#24
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Keyholing at 50 yards would indicate either a complete lack of stabilization or a serious off-axis knock on leaving the barrel. Since you said your muzzle looks good the latter is unlikely. My guess is severe leading of the microgrooves, and the jacketed rounds are just skipping over the grooves. If the previous owner used hot loads behind cast bullets, you might have a nice smooth bore. I hope the cleaning did the trick, good luck this weekend. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.