Down to a Walther P99, S&W M&P, and CZ 75 or PO7.

[ndaholic]

Well barring finding a H&K for a great price, I am down to these three guns. They fit within my $600 budget. I am going to go to the local gun shop and hopefully shoot each one. That being said, please give me opinions on all three.

[Rayndeon]

I like the CZ75B and P07 a LOT. Nice ergonomics on the gun (for me anyway, I suppose), and like a 1911, it can be safely carried cocked-and-locked - or you can opt for DA/SA mode of operation. The CZ75B is steel, weighing in at 2.2 pounds, so it is a bit heavy, comparable to a 1911 in that regard. The P07 is lighter, about 1.6 lbs IIRC, since it is polymer, if that makes any difference. The P07 is more compact than the 75B, but both feature full-sized grips (which I like) and the same magazine capacity of 16+1 rounds of 9x19 Parabellum. Both are solid tackdrivers and very reliable handguns.

I'm not as familiar with the other two, but I've heard nothing but good things about the S&W M&P. Both are striker-fired and do not feature external safeties.

[ndaholic]

I probably know this once someone tells me, but what DA/SA mean? What does striker fired mean?

[gwnorth]

DA/SA = Double Action / Single action (ie. a pistol which can be decocked, making the first shot a long pull, DA, and subsequent shots, with the recoil cocking the action, will be SA).

Striker fired - the opposite of a hammer hitting a firing pin hitting the primer. Instead, a striker is driven forward under spring tension to directly impact the primer (think Glock 19 versus a SIG P226, for example).

I have a CZ P-01 and love it. But, I would also like to get a P99 AS. It is striker fired, but offers the same advantages as a hammer fired DA/SA with decocking lever, and it is a very nice pistol to shoot. Generally, I prefer a hammer fired DA/SA with a decocking lever over striker fired, but the P99 offers a nice compromise, for me.

[ndaholic]

Yep, I knew I would know what DA/SA meant. Thanks. Looks like a lot of people love the CZ. Please keep the opinions coming. I am very anal about researching before I buy soemthing with a price tag like a gun.

[chris in va]

It really just boils down to what YOU like. People can recommend guns all day long but if it doesn't fit your hand right or you can't get used to the trigger pull, anything we say is worthless.

Case in point, I first started carrying an XD9 after everyone raved about the gun. 6 months later I finally realized shooting it accurately was an exercise in futility, so I sold it and bought a CZ 75BD. Granted the trigger isn't the greatest but the ergos fit my hand like they were born with it. It will eventually get a trigger job.

[Rayndeon]

Like gwnorth said, but maybe some pictures can help a bit more.

A Sig P226 in DA mode:



Notice that the hammer is forward. Consequently, you'll need a long, heavier pull to fire the gun.

Functionally, a gun that is in DA mode has the hammer down/forward and pulling the trigger both cocks the hammer back and releases the hammer to hit the cartridge.

A M1911 in SA mode:



Notice that the hammer is cocked back. You need a much lighter, much shorter pull to fire the gun.

Functionally, a gun in SA mode has a cocked hammer and pulling the trigger simply releases the hammer. The hammer is cocked again - in a semi-automatic handgun anyway - when the slide is cycled or racked.

Many modern pistols are DA/SA only - meaning, the first shot is in DA - hammer down, long heavy pull - and all subsequent shots are in SA - hammer back, short light pull. This is mostly to prevent negligent discharges or in scenarios where you don't necessarily want to pull the trigger - i.e. Law Enforcement. This includes guns like the Sig P226, CZ75, Jericho 941, etc.

Other options are DAO - double-action only - which is often a variant offered by a manufacturer. In DAO, every shot is made in DA.

There is also SAO - single-action only - like the 1911 most famously. Here, every shot is single-action.

Anyway,

Striker-fired Glock 17:



Notice that there is NO external hammer. What hits the primer of the cartridge is an internal striker - kind of like a pin moving in a straight line. Like a hammer though, a striker can be in DA - where the striker is all the way forward and needs a longer pull - or in SA - where the striker is pre-cocked and needs a short pull.

And of course the guns I showed you earlier have external hammers.

---

EDIT: Go with what chris said. Before buying the gun, hold it and if you can, try to find a friend or someone who will let you try theirs out a few dozen rounds or so.

[ndaholic]

Great info Rayndeon, thanks.

[raven11]

The P99 has a great grip with interchangeable backstraps , it has two variants as Anti stress AS- simulating a DA/SA trigger pull and a Quick action QA-simulating a glock-like one pull strength trigger it has been my favorite 9mm for a number of years

[wvshooter]

I have a CZ75BD and have concealed carried the gun. If you can put up with the weight and the length of the barrel it is a tremendous weapon. I seldom carry mine for those two reasons.

My two favorite carry guns are a S&W 3rd generation 5906 or a S&W 3rd generation 4046. These guns are out of production so they are only available used. The price for one in good condition is in the $350 to $400 range. There are plenty available because they were used by so many PD's. IMO they shoot just as well as the CZ75. They are as heavy as the CZ but the barrel is about an inch shorter which seems to make a big difference to me. I feel very well armed carrying either one.

Of the four you mention the M&P is probably the best for concealed carry. Light weight and very dependable. I have Sigmas in 9mm and 40 caliber and like them both but I can't seem to warm up to the M&P's. For me the weight of an all steel gun makes them so much easier to control during rapid fire.

Regarding the CZ's, if I was going to conceal carry one of those I would go with the 75 in the compact size or the P-01. Either of those would be excellent for CC.

[ndaholic]

Well I conceal carry my Sig P239. So, I'm not really concerned about a CC weapon. I am thinking of beginning to shoot competitively, so one of my concerns is accuaracy. Nice groups.

[Rayndeon]

Well, the Walther P99 is the lightest out of all of them - not considerably so compared to the S&W M&P or the P07 though - but you'd likely have to get a used one. It runs for about 700-750+ new. From what I know of the M&P, it is amazingly reliable, feeding even when limpwristing - I think there was an article in AmericanHandgunner or something like that where the reviewer basically put the M&P through virtually every example of bad shooting - sideways, upside down, overhead sideways - the gun went bang each time. Very nice. It too runs at about 700-750+. But you can probably find lots of used ones for less.

[#18indycolts]

I'd go with the P99, the AS trigger imo is the best trigger out there, and the Walther has the best ergos.

[ndaholic]

I have a friend who has the M&P, so I am going to try to shoot that before I buy one. I have never seen anyone with th Walther, so maybe my local gun store will have one. It seems like, from the responses, that the general consensus is the M&P. I just had a fella who told me he has a friend who has the CZ and he sent it back because the magazine wouldn't drop. He also said that's not a rare case with the CZ.

[azredhawk44]

I just had a fella who told me he has a friend who has the CZ and he sent it back because the magazine wouldn't drop. He also said that's not a rare case with the CZ.

CZ's intentionally have something called a magazine brake.

It deliberately stops the magazine from falling out.

You can modify the existing magazine brake easily, or you can purchase a different replacement part for the mag brake that allows mags to drop out easily.

I modified my CZ-75B in about 20 minutes and it works great now. Mags drop cleanly, no issues.

[ShipWreck]

I have a fullsize and compact P99 A/S in 9mm. Fantastic guns.

I'm actually selling the compact right now (it has a hard chromed slide) because I now carry a fullsize gun, and I need the money for something else. I'd never sell the fullsize one, however.

If anyone is interested, my ad is here:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=389891

[RT]

I vote for the M&P, but only since the Glock 19 is not on your list.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/998
"the gun fired 62,333 rounds beginning on 22-Apr-08 and ending on 5-Dec-08"

[Dust Monkey]

Get the P99. You'll be glad you did.

[glocktoys]

i own glocks,walthers and h&k's.. off the list the walthers are great as second strike capibility and short resets with the as trigger set.

[J.Kendall]

The M&P is nice. Fits my hand like a custom made glove. I've always wanted a p99 too.

[Rmac58]

I have no magazine issues with my CZ P-06, it's quite accurate as well, but try as many as you can. Only you can decide what's best for you.

[wvshooter]

I'm not really concerned about a CC weapon.

Sorry, I didn't catch that in the original post. Considering your goal, competition, I would go with the CZ75B or the CZ SP-01. It would be hard to find a better off the shelf competition handgun than the SP-01.

[armoredman]

The P07 can be switched from decock to standard safety by the user, if that helps.


The standard 75B is a great range gun as well, if that was a choice. The P07 really is NOT suitable for IWB carry without a garment bewteen, that grip will rip you up. I know, tried it.
Another fantstic CZ pistol that splits the differance is the PCR shown here with Hakan grips, 14 rounds, DA/SA alloy frame deocker model.



Those can also be had for less than $600.

[pacerdude]

I absolutely love my M&P.

[DocDizz]

While I liked shooting my brother's Walther back when he had it, my vote goes for CZ 75 or P07. For the price (depending on the going rate where you are) you really CANNOT beat the CZ for overall awesomeness. If you're going CC, I'd say the P-07 (or 01!!!). If not, 75. That's just my stubborn opinion, though I've never handled the S&W.