.45 acp & .45 lc

CWPinSC · March 6, 2010, 07:35 PM

Can I use the same size (dia.) bullets to load both .45 ACP and .45 Long Colt?

DiscoRacing · March 6, 2010, 08:11 PM

yes... but typically the acp will not be as heavy a bullet as the lc

BigJakeJ1s · March 6, 2010, 08:28 PM

yes, but acp bullets do not have the cannelure (crimping groove) that 45 colt bullets have.

Andy

zippy13 · March 6, 2010, 09:09 PM

The .45ACP geometry provides about .357" for bullet projection, where the .45LC provides about .315". Consequently, round nose bullets that work fine in the .45ACP may be seated too deeply (tangent point well inside end of case) in the .45LC to meet its 1.60" max length. Because of this, hollow points or semi-wadcutters are a better choice than round noses for a .45ACP/LC common bullet.

Also, if your .45LC has the old style bore of .454, then new bullets at .451 won't give you optimum performance.

darkgael · March 7, 2010, 06:52 AM

Zippy: I may well have something to learn here.
[QUOTE] round nose bullets that work fine in the .45ACP may be seated too deeply (tangent point well inside end of case) in the .45LC to meet its 1.60" max length./QUOTE]

I don't quite follow that. If I take a 230 grain FMJ bullet that I would normally load into a .45 ACP case and load it into a .45 Colt case, and I have done this, I understand that the ogive may require a deeper seating than a bullet designed expressly for the .45 Colt. OK. So the OAL may be shorter than max.
Here's the part that I don't follow - why is less than max length a problem in this case? I understand that longer than max is an issue..... but shorter?
Not meant to be argumentative. I do notice that the reloading manuals do not spec the 230 grain FMJ for the 45 Colt. I am just not sure why.
Pete

dahermit · March 7, 2010, 08:15 AM

At one time, the standard dia. for the .45 Colt was .454. But in recent history, the standard size for modern handguns has become .452. So, if you are referring shooting cast bullets in modern guns, yes they use the same diameter bullets.

n7qvu · March 7, 2010, 10:13 AM

I have a Ruger Blackhawk made in 1976 that has a conversion cylinder that shoots both ACP & LC.
How long ago where the LC .454?

zippy13 · March 7, 2010, 12:11 PM

Sorry, gents, I didn't mean to stir up a hornets' nest; but, sometimes it's the anomalies that get us into trouble…

Bullet size:
.45 LCs made since WW II are generally sized .451 or .452, but some pre-war models may be in the neighborhood of .454-.455. Black powder ones are definitely the larger size. I'd stick to lead bullets for a pre-war model until I had it measured.

Bullet nose:
Why are .45 LCs are typically loaded with flat nose, semi-wadcutter or hollow point bullets?
Aside from the geometry problem with a round nose bullet (see below), the .45 LC has applications in rifles with tube magazines.

Pete,
Hopefully my sketch will convey what I'm trying to say. With the ACP over the LC: The allowable bullet projection is the maximum overall length minus the case length. The .45 ACP is a shorter case than the .45 LC, but it has a greater allowable projection. A round nose bullet's tangent point (the cross line) may be safely beyond the end of case in an ACP; however, the same bullet could be seated too deeply in a LC. A bullet seated too deeply is an invitation to an over crimp.

CWPinSC · March 7, 2010, 12:25 PM

So, guys, what I'm hearing is you CAN, but you really shouldn't. I'm learning.

dahermit · March 7, 2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

I have a Ruger Blackhawk made in 1976 that has a conversion cylinder that shoots both ACP & LC.
How long ago where the LC .454?

I beleive tha Ruger always used .452. Pre-World War II Colts and similar were .454.

zippy13 · March 7, 2010, 01:00 PM

So, guys, what I'm hearing is you CAN, but you really shouldn't. I'm learning.

It's not that black and white.
We're not saying don't do it, but if you do, you need to be aware of the potential problems. Starting with a generic 230 gr RN .45 APC bullet feel free to load it in your .45 LC if: Your gun is post-WW II (one of mine isn't) and if you need to exceed the recommended Maximum overall length to properly seat the bullet (tangent point outside of the case) that it doesn't project beyond the face of your cylinder.
Don't load all of them them at first, do a few and test them. As BigJakeJ1s mentioned the bullet won't have a cannelure, so you may get some withdrawal. When you do your initial test, be diligent, your cylinder may jamb as bullets try to escape their cases during recoil. Of course, if you feel uncomfortable, don't do it.

darkgael · March 7, 2010, 07:53 PM

Zippy: Thanks for the reply about that business and the possibility of over crimping.

Pete

sourdough44 · March 7, 2010, 08:57 PM

So maybe yes to the acp bullets with the 45 Colt loaded to low 'cowboy action' levels fired in the Judge with the long cylinder??

zippy13 · March 7, 2010, 09:28 PM

Sourdough44,
With a Judge, there's no way you have to worry about a .45 Long Colt being a few hundredths over maximum standard case length. Cowboy loads should work fine in that bad boy. With a gun that big, my main concern is the possibility of an un-noticed squib stuck in the barrel. I almost had one last Friday, the bullet hadn't moved in the case, but the primer backed up and the cylinder drag told me something was amiss.

March 6, 2010, 07:35 PM	#1
CWPinSC Junior member Join Date: July 1, 2009 Posts: 863	.45 acp & .45 lc Can I use the same size (dia.) bullets to load both .45 ACP and .45 Long Colt? Last edited by CWPinSC; March 6, 2010 at 08:04 PM.

March 6, 2010, 08:11 PM	#2
DiscoRacing Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: milton, wv Posts: 3,640	yes... but typically the acp will not be as heavy a bullet as the lc __________________ Desert Eagle Alliance Group Launcher Extraordinaire ______ ----Get Busy Live'n.....Or....Get Busy Die'n......Red -------They call me Dr. Bob,,,, I have a PhD in S&W

March 7, 2010, 06:52 AM	#5
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Question Zippy: I may well have something to learn here. [QUOTE] round nose bullets that work fine in the .45ACP may be seated too deeply (tangent point well inside end of case) in the .45LC to meet its 1.60" max length./QUOTE] I don't quite follow that. If I take a 230 grain FMJ bullet that I would normally load into a .45 ACP case and load it into a .45 Colt case, and I have done this, I understand that the ogive may require a deeper seating than a bullet designed expressly for the .45 Colt. OK. So the OAL may be shorter than max. Here's the part that I don't follow - why is less than max length a problem in this case? I understand that longer than max is an issue..... but shorter? Not meant to be argumentative. I do notice that the reloading manuals do not spec the 230 grain FMJ for the 45 Colt. I am just not sure why. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

March 7, 2010, 10:13 AM	#7
n7qvu Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Overgaard, AZ USA Posts: 153	Recent? I have a Ruger Blackhawk made in 1976 that has a conversion cylinder that shoots both ACP & LC. How long ago where the LC .454? __________________ Jerry W. NRA Instructor: Pistol, Home Safety, Personal Protection, RSO, Reloading. NRA Life Member, NRA-ILA Sustaining Member, AZ CCW training org. & instructor, AZ HE instructor. JWsGUNs.com FFL-07, NFA SOT-C2.

March 7, 2010, 12:11 PM	#8
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	an oops Sorry, gents, I didn't mean to stir up a hornets' nest; but, sometimes it's the anomalies that get us into trouble… Bullet size: .45 LCs made since WW II are generally sized .451 or .452, but some pre-war models may be in the neighborhood of .454-.455. Black powder ones are definitely the larger size. I'd stick to lead bullets for a pre-war model until I had it measured. Bullet nose: Why are .45 LCs are typically loaded with flat nose, semi-wadcutter or hollow point bullets? Aside from the geometry problem with a round nose bullet (see below), the .45 LC has applications in rifles with tube magazines. Pete, Hopefully my sketch will convey what I'm trying to say. With the ACP over the LC: The allowable bullet projection is the maximum overall length minus the case length. The .45 ACP is a shorter case than the .45 LC, but it has a greater allowable projection. A round nose bullet's tangent point (the cross line) may be safely beyond the end of case in an ACP; however, the same bullet could be seated too deeply in a LC. A bullet seated too deeply is an invitation to an over crimp. Last edited by zippy13; March 8, 2010 at 07:28 PM.

March 6, 2010, 08:28 PM	#3
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	yes, but acp bullets do not have the cannelure (crimping groove) that 45 colt bullets have. Andy

March 6, 2010, 09:09 PM	#4
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	The .45ACP geometry provides about .357" for bullet projection, where the .45LC provides about .315". Consequently, round nose bullets that work fine in the .45ACP may be seated too deeply (tangent point well inside end of case) in the .45LC to meet its 1.60" max length. Because of this, hollow points or semi-wadcutters are a better choice than round noses for a .45ACP/LC common bullet. Also, if your .45LC has the old style bore of .454, then new bullets at .451 won't give you optimum performance.

March 7, 2010, 08:15 AM	#6
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	At one time, the standard dia. for the .45 Colt was .454. But in recent history, the standard size for modern handguns has become .452. So, if you are referring shooting cast bullets in modern guns, yes they use the same diameter bullets.

March 7, 2010, 12:25 PM	#9
CWPinSC Junior member Join Date: July 1, 2009 Posts: 863	So, guys, what I'm hearing is you CAN, but you really shouldn't. I'm learning.

March 7, 2010, 01:00 PM	#11
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	typo So, guys, what I'm hearing is you CAN, but you really shouldn't. I'm learning. It's not that black and white. We're not saying don't do it, but if you do, you need to be aware of the potential problems. Starting with a generic 230 gr RN .45 APC bullet feel free to load it in your .45 LC if: Your gun is post-WW II (one of mine isn't) and if you need to exceed the recommended Maximum overall length to properly seat the bullet (tangent point outside of the case) that it doesn't project beyond the face of your cylinder. Don't load all of them them at first, do a few and test them. As BigJakeJ1s mentioned the bullet won't have a cannelure, so you may get some withdrawal. When you do your initial test, be diligent, your cylinder may jamb as bullets try to escape their cases during recoil. Of course, if you feel uncomfortable, don't do it. Last edited by zippy13; March 8, 2010 at 07:29 PM.

March 7, 2010, 07:53 PM	#12
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Thanks Zippy: Thanks for the reply about that business and the possibility of over crimping. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

March 7, 2010, 08:57 PM	#13
sourdough44 Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: WI Posts: 621	So maybe yes to the acp bullets with the 45 Colt loaded to low 'cowboy action' levels fired in the Judge with the long cylinder??

March 7, 2010, 09:28 PM	#14
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Sourdough44, With a Judge, there's no way you have to worry about a .45 Long Colt being a few hundredths over maximum standard case length. Cowboy loads should work fine in that bad boy. With a gun that big, my main concern is the possibility of an un-noticed squib stuck in the barrel. I almost had one last Friday, the bullet hadn't moved in the case, but the primer backed up and the cylinder drag told me something was amiss.