Moly Plated 9mm/40 cal. S&W Plated bullets

engineermike · June 2, 2010, 10:23 PM

Has anyone had any experience loading the moly plated bullets, and how do they shoot? I have a chance to buy some at a reasonable price but again I know nothing about the bullet and their price. I have not seen, nor have I looked for the loading specs for these bullet, that info would be helpful too.

wingman · June 3, 2010, 07:30 AM

I tried moly some years back and found it so difficult in cleaning barrels I stopped, in fact one barrel pitted and had to be replaced, others have had good results but for me its a no moly in anything I shoot.

**Unclenick** · June 3, 2010, 08:23 AM

It depends on the moly. The process was invented by NECO who uses only laboratory grade moly. The imitators came out hot and heavy when it started getting popular, and I understand that at one point a lot of low grade moly with free sulfur in it as well as some surplus moly recovered from metal stamping operations with some free iron in it got into the bullet coating market. That's where corrosion came in and spoiled the reputation of the process. One of those deals where attempting to save money had a hidden penalty.

I've always used the NECO process and never had a problem, including in my first Garand's very rough original military barrel. I didn't do what some early adopters did, which was try to get moly to get them through a whole match season without cleaning. That was to avoid fouling shots. I think that's asking for trouble in a gun without a stainless barrel.

Barrel cleaning is easy with the right materials. Moly mixes with carbon from the powder combustion, so carbon solvents remove it well. I've had particularly good luck with Gunzilla. I run in a couple of wet patches and let it sit in the bore overnight, then patch it out in the morning. A patch of Ed's Red run into the bore at the end of a shooting session seems to keep the carbon soft, too. I see Sharpshoot-R (Wipeout products) now has added a carbon cleaner to their line, but I haven't tried it yet. You want something capable of actually softening hardened carbon deposits. I've heard TM does that too, but also have not tried it myself.

Walt Berger says the advantage of the moly coating is bullets seem to self-align better in the bore, so cartridge concentricity and alignment and exact distance off the lands becomes less significant. In other words, the bullet is less likely to be tipped in the bore after engraving into the throat. He believes that gets them out of the tube with less coning motion and results in a less helical initial trajectory path, and that this accounts for the very slightly higher ballistic coefficients usually measured for moly-coated bullets.

Because of lower start pressure resulting from easier engraving into rifling, you need to increase powder charge slightly to match plain bullet velocity with moly-coated bullets. The powder has a little harder time getting burning without that resistance. Half a grain more powder seems pretty typical for .308 and .30-06. My point is that a sweet spot load can shift with a switch to moly bullets and require you to work the load back up again. Accuracy comparisons to plain bullets have suffered in some instances because the charge used was the same. It's a good safety policy to work loads back up again with any component change, anyway.

If you pull a moly-coated bullet from a newly trimmed and chamfered case, you will be surprised to see all the moly scraped off below the case mouth. That doesn't affect the engraving force, since that depends on moly on the bullet ogive, but can affect the seating and pull friction, which affect powder burn. To avoid the scraping you just dip the case neck in neck lube and run it over your sizing die expander ball a couple of times to burnish the sharp edges left by trimming and chamfering. Then a pulled bullet shows no scraping. If you don't do this and you don't trim every loading cycle, it will affect consistency of your reloads, as that burnishing happens in the next sizing round.

Berger, Norma, and Sierra all sell bullets plated under process license from NECO, either done by themselves or by David Tubb. I don't know if anyone else has a patent license from NECO for their process?

wingman · June 3, 2010, 09:28 AM

Quote:

It depends on the moly. The process was invented by NECO who uses only laboratory grade moly. The imitators came out hot and heavy when it started getting popular, and I understand that at one point a lot of low grade moly with free sulfur in it as well as some surplus moly recovered from metal stamping operations with some free iron in it got into the bullet coating market. That's where corrosion came in and spoiled the reputation of the process. One of those deals where attempting to save money had a hidden penalty.

I agree it would depend on grade however I do not see an advantage in pistol shooting perhaps in bench rest but even there depending on barrel it's usefulness is doubtful in my mind.

June 2, 2010, 10:23 PM	#1
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	Moly Plated 9mm/40 cal. S&W Plated bullets Has anyone had any experience loading the moly plated bullets, and how do they shoot? I have a chance to buy some at a reasonable price but again I know nothing about the bullet and their price. I have not seen, nor have I looked for the loading specs for these bullet, that info would be helpful too.

June 3, 2010, 08:23 AM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,130	It depends on the moly. The process was invented by NECO who uses only laboratory grade moly. The imitators came out hot and heavy when it started getting popular, and I understand that at one point a lot of low grade moly with free sulfur in it as well as some surplus moly recovered from metal stamping operations with some free iron in it got into the bullet coating market. That's where corrosion came in and spoiled the reputation of the process. One of those deals where attempting to save money had a hidden penalty. I've always used the NECO process and never had a problem, including in my first Garand's very rough original military barrel. I didn't do what some early adopters did, which was try to get moly to get them through a whole match season without cleaning. That was to avoid fouling shots. I think that's asking for trouble in a gun without a stainless barrel. Barrel cleaning is easy with the right materials. Moly mixes with carbon from the powder combustion, so carbon solvents remove it well. I've had particularly good luck with Gunzilla. I run in a couple of wet patches and let it sit in the bore overnight, then patch it out in the morning. A patch of Ed's Red run into the bore at the end of a shooting session seems to keep the carbon soft, too. I see Sharpshoot-R (Wipeout products) now has added a carbon cleaner to their line, but I haven't tried it yet. You want something capable of actually softening hardened carbon deposits. I've heard TM does that too, but also have not tried it myself. Walt Berger says the advantage of the moly coating is bullets seem to self-align better in the bore, so cartridge concentricity and alignment and exact distance off the lands becomes less significant. In other words, the bullet is less likely to be tipped in the bore after engraving into the throat. He believes that gets them out of the tube with less coning motion and results in a less helical initial trajectory path, and that this accounts for the very slightly higher ballistic coefficients usually measured for moly-coated bullets. Because of lower start pressure resulting from easier engraving into rifling, you need to increase powder charge slightly to match plain bullet velocity with moly-coated bullets. The powder has a little harder time getting burning without that resistance. Half a grain more powder seems pretty typical for .308 and .30-06. My point is that a sweet spot load can shift with a switch to moly bullets and require you to work the load back up again. Accuracy comparisons to plain bullets have suffered in some instances because the charge used was the same. It's a good safety policy to work loads back up again with any component change, anyway. If you pull a moly-coated bullet from a newly trimmed and chamfered case, you will be surprised to see all the moly scraped off below the case mouth. That doesn't affect the engraving force, since that depends on moly on the bullet ogive, but can affect the seating and pull friction, which affect powder burn. To avoid the scraping you just dip the case neck in neck lube and run it over your sizing die expander ball a couple of times to burnish the sharp edges left by trimming and chamfering. Then a pulled bullet shows no scraping. If you don't do this and you don't trim every loading cycle, it will affect consistency of your reloads, as that burnishing happens in the next sizing round. Berger, Norma, and Sierra all sell bullets plated under process license from NECO, either done by themselves or by David Tubb. I don't know if anyone else has a patent license from NECO for their process? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; June 3, 2010 at 08:29 AM.

June 3, 2010, 07:30 AM	#2
wingman Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 2,108	I tried moly some years back and found it so difficult in cleaning barrels I stopped, in fact one barrel pitted and had to be replaced, others have had good results but for me its a no moly in anything I shoot.