Accidental Discharges?

IanS · February 10, 2001, 02:21 PM

Does anyone have any stories to share? It can happen to anyone, even seasoned military and police types. After 10 years of shooting I still haven't had one but as the saying goes "accidents will happen".

Doc Hudson · February 10, 2001, 02:48 PM

Be patient Ian. You will eventually have an Accidental Discharge.

I've had two over the years and each was cause by the "Just One More Syndrome." I'd been practiceing draw and fire for a while with an unloaded gun. After I finished and reloaded, I failed to follow a cardinal rule of dryfiring. I failed to secure my revolver so that it must be conciously unsecured before firing.

#1 resulted in a hole in a large pillow and into the wall, # 2 resulted in a broke window pane.

Never use your TV for a dryfire target.

Doc Hudson

IanS · February 10, 2001, 03:15 PM

DocHudson,

I know I can't wait. Maybe I just need to get it out of my system.

Did the police show up and how did they treat it?

Quantum Singularity · February 10, 2001, 03:19 PM

Never had an AD, and I plan to continue being extra safe so I never do. Poop happens however so there is no gaurantee it won't ever happen to me.

BB · February 10, 2001, 03:54 PM

I had one once; but it was only because it had been so long and I was excited. My girlfriend said it was no big deal, it happens to lots of guys, but...

Topgun77th · February 10, 2001, 04:19 PM

I saw two people trying to get a shotgun that had jammed, cleared. One of the people held down the action release and struck the butt onto the ground. BANG!!! No way I could see if her finger slipped onto the trigger. Several that were close by could not tell. I don't think she did because the tang safety was still engaged when we picked the gun out of the sand. We all decieded that it was a great time to take a break.

PS we tried to get the shotgun to repeat the dischage with out success. Go Figure.

Big Difference between and Accidental Discharge ( My Gun Broke ) and a Unintentional Dischage ( My Mind Broke ). There, but by the grace of God, go I. or somthin like that.

Stay Safe
CLC

Longshot · February 10, 2001, 05:00 PM

Ian11

Do a search on the words "accidental" and "negligent", (also try AD and ND) in the General Handgun and General Discussion forums. You'll surely find what you are looking for.

Gonzo308 · February 10, 2001, 06:10 PM

Ian, I've told this story before but I'll prove I'm a fool again.

After a long day on the Dept. range completing some advanced tactical C.E., several of us were in the classroom cleaning our weapons. I had finished cleaning and reassembling my pistol, performed a function check and loaded the pistol. Dropped my mag to insert my "Barney Round" to top off the mag and got called over to settle an argument over a football game. We talked for a while and I went back to my pistol, the mag is on the table and the gun is sitting next to it assembled, I forgot 2 things...

1) treat EVERY gun as if it were loaded ALL THE TIME!!!!!!

2) Always check to see if a gun is loaded BEFORE you pull the trigger.

So, being the fool my darling wife married I picked up the pistol and pulled the trigger as if I were performing a function check. BANG!!!

I KIA'd a Poster about gun safety that was on the wall next to me. I am now the poster child for the Chief's Dept safety program.

I also learned something else that day. the guys on my shift are VERY thirsty when someone else is buying the beer!

Kentucky Rifle · February 11, 2001, 12:27 PM

OK, confession time for me too.
Those of you who know me also know that I have a lower back problem. A really bad lower back problem.
Friday night I stiffly removed my Hedley back pocket holster, and as I was removing my new Seecamp from the holster, I fumbled it. I snatched, batted, and grabbed at my falling beauty without using an ounce of common sense. Finally, I batted it onto the bed. I was relieved to see my new pistol fall harmlessly onto a soft bed, but then I reaized just how many times I must have came close to pulling the trigger during my multiple mid-air "grabs".
I'm thankful that I didn't accidentally pull the trigger, and I vow before you all now that if I ever drop a pistol again, I'll just dive for cover and let it fall.

Stupidly,
Will

Doc Hudson · February 11, 2001, 02:33 PM

No cops either time, just much embarrassment.

Another Negligent discharge story. This time it was not me pulling the trigger.

In the mid-1970's S&W M-29's were about as scarce as hen's teeth. A Troy PD officer managed to latch on to a new 6" barreled beauty. On his day off, he dropped by the cop shop to show off his new acquisition. As the gun made the rounds of the cops in the radio room, if finally reached Grady.

Lots of talk about the beauty, the finish, the power, all that Dirty harry stuff. When Grady got it into his hot little hands, his first act was to thumb back the hammer. His second and third acts took place simultaneously. Grady asked, "Is this thang loaded?" as he yanked the trigger.

KAAAAAAABBBBOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A large hole appeared in a brand new radio base station and the wall of the radio room.

Both Grady and the S&W owner got suspensions for that little fiasco. The Owner for passing around a loaded gun, and Grady for reckless discharge.

To the best of my knowledge, Grady has yet to live down that incident.

Doc Hudson

Chad Young · February 11, 2001, 04:01 PM

Well, thankfuly, no NDs (Negligent Discharges), but one AD. I had an older modem Norinco 9mm pistol. We were about to go cold for a sec so I pressed the hammer drop device and "pop" the gun fired. The firing assembly had been improperly assembled by the previous owner and the hammer fell right on an unblocked firing pin. Thankfully, I had the muzzle downrange and everyone was waiting for the all clear before going down range.

Remember -

AD - Accidental Discharge - Gun failure; no finger on trigger.

ND - Negligent Discharge - Operator failure, finger on trigger.

IanS · February 11, 2001, 04:14 PM

That's a very good distinction between:
Accidental Discharge (AD)
and
Negligent Discharge (ND)

Negligent Discharges are probably more common I would think.

riverdog · February 11, 2001, 05:00 PM

Seems most ND's are caused by complacency. Folks getting far to comfortable with handguns and breaking discipline. I would imagine that many AD's are really ND's in disguise (blame the gun). Same thing happens in aviation, most accidents are a result of pilot error and very rarely the aircrafts system. People taking shortcuts. Procedures and basic firearm safety rules have been written in blood. Some folks though can't learn from other's mistakes and insist on making their own. So be it. Me? ... I take no shortcuts with firearm safety and don't let others distract me while I'm handling firearms. I prefer to not be a lesson for someone else to ignore.

juliet charley · February 11, 2001, 10:03 PM

I believe it was Skeeter Skelton who said there are only two kinds of people (referring to shooters) those who have had an accidental discharge and those who have not had one yet.

I would venture most of accidental discharges invole fatigue or being in hurry (or both).

The Observer · February 11, 2001, 10:24 PM

Greetings:

'never had an AD's and thanks to God and thanks to good advises from experts like in this board and other sources.

To my mind, accidents will occur if there is mechanical failures on the gun or negligence on the part of the user by overlooking all safety and precautionary measures.

Thanks

Vyper45 · February 12, 2001, 12:50 AM

I had an AD in febuary, I cleaned my Glock 30, put it together, and pulled a new box of remington GSHP's out, loaded the 2 9 rd mags, slammed one in the pistol, finger off trigger, tumbed slide release, due to a high primer and heavy 21# recoil spring, KABOOOM!, ruptured case, I have cuts on the forehead, killed a window, and hit a tree across the way, I called the cops to file a report, me and 4 other cops went over the box of ammo 5 times and found 6 other dangerously high primers out of the 24 left, needless to say remington got a rather nasty phone call.

I am also thinking about legal action as I don't want to think about what would have happened if I actually NEEDED the gun.

Vyper45 · February 12, 2001, 12:51 AM

PS, no charges were filed against me, actually the cops were impressed I had the balls to call them, but I needed a report.

Ragin Cajun · February 12, 2001, 07:36 AM

Vyper45

This is a good reminder for all of us to check our ammunition! Quite by accident I found a box of 9mm that had several rounds where the bullet was seated at least an 1/8" deeper than the rest. As for your "high primers," hadn't thought of that one.

Perhaps it would be wise to look over each we open.

Whenever I am releasing the slide on a loaded mag I am careful to point the gun in a safe direction in case something goes wrong.

Digger · February 12, 2001, 08:35 AM

I have been blessed to be a Marine for the last 11 years. Several iterations of rifle ranges and live fire training. The only ND I've witnessed was a knucklehead fumbling with an M60 machine gun with his finger ON the trigger.

The funny part was this was in the middle of the ground assault in Desert Storm. Very quickly, everyone up to the Battalion level were asking on the radio, "who's shooting at us?" To avoid the destruction by fire of the nearest Kuwaiti structure, I had to dime out the ND on the radio to the Battalion. Case closed, lots of embarrassment for the Marine.

I've seen an AD too. An M249 (5.56 mm) belt fed Machine gun had the pin fall out of the trigger assembly, and thus, the trigger assembly came off in the Marine's hand. With nothing to stop the bolt from going back and forth, we got to watch about 120 rounds from the remaining belt take off into the dusky sky at about a 30 degree angle. Glad the Marine didn't freak and let go of the Gun!!!

AS for me, I carry revolvers.....which solves a whole lot of the AD's you guys have mentioned. As for the ND's, well my wife will admit I'm still working on my brain....

tyro · February 12, 2001, 10:30 AM

Vyper45,

When you wrote "remington GSHP's", were you referring to Remington Golden Saber High Performance?

Sisco · February 12, 2001, 06:23 PM

When I was about 14 I was messing with my dad's Llama 9mm. Had shot this gun, could field strip it and reassemble blindfolded. Dropped the mag, pulled the slide back nothing came out so I figure it's unloaded now, right? Pulled the trigger and blew a hole in the living room wall into a bedroom barely missing the dresser mirror. Hardball bullet then hit the ceiling, came back down and through another wall taking out a chunk of siding and buried itself in the ground.
That feeling has stuck with me for over 30 years, I never pick up a gun without checking the chamber, have taught my kids to do the same.

Vyper45 · February 12, 2001, 11:23 PM

yes, remington Golden saber 185 gr. +P, I exclusively use corbon or triton now, no more big name ammo.

Zander · February 13, 2001, 01:38 AM

"I called the cops to file a report..."

Where do you live/work that you felt compelled to do such a thing? Are you an LEO?

I don't mean to be rude, but if you don't have to account for every round discharged as a condition of employment, your reaction is one of the dumbest things I've had the misfortune to hear.

Doc Hudson · February 13, 2001, 10:22 AM

Zander,

Did you consider the need for a home owners insurance claim?

Besides, it was better for him to call the cops than to wait for a knock on the door after a neighbor's complaint.

Since he is considering legal action regarding the dangerous condition of his ammo, the pol;ice report would also be helpful there.

So Zander, you can see the man had three pretty good reasons to get a police report filed.

Doc Hudson

Vyper45 · February 13, 2001, 06:07 PM

Plus I'm good friends with the cops. I've gone shooting with them a number of times.

February 10, 2001, 03:19 PM	#4
Quantum Singularity Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Posts: 925	Never had an AD, and I plan to continue being extra safe so I never do. Poop happens however so there is no gaurantee it won't ever happen to me. __________________ "A gun is a tool, no better or worse than any other tool (an axe, a shovel, or anything). A gun is as good or bad as the man using it". Shane (1953) MOLON LABE!

February 10, 2001, 05:00 PM	#7
Longshot Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2000 Location: Oregon Posts: 717	Ian11 Do a search on the words "accidental" and "negligent", (also try AD and ND) in the General Handgun and General Discussion forums. You'll surely find what you are looking for. __________________ "You have to understand...most of these people are not ready to be unplugged...they are so inured, so completely dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it" Morpheus-The Matrix Semper Fi! Oregonians, please support the Oregon Firearms Federation, our local "no compromise" chapter of the GOA

February 11, 2001, 12:27 PM	#9
Kentucky Rifle Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 1999 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 2,687	I did a STUPID...STUPID thing friday night. OK, confession time for me too. Those of you who know me also know that I have a lower back problem. A really bad lower back problem. Friday night I stiffly removed my Hedley back pocket holster, and as I was removing my new Seecamp from the holster, I fumbled it. I snatched, batted, and grabbed at my falling beauty without using an ounce of common sense. Finally, I batted it onto the bed. I was relieved to see my new pistol fall harmlessly onto a soft bed, but then I reaized just how many times I must have came close to pulling the trigger during my multiple mid-air "grabs". I'm thankful that I didn't accidentally pull the trigger, and I vow before you all now that if I ever drop a pistol again, I'll just dive for cover and let it fall. Stupidly, Will

February 11, 2001, 05:00 PM	#13
riverdog Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2000 Posts: 824	Never had one and don't intend to Seems most ND's are caused by complacency. Folks getting far to comfortable with handguns and breaking discipline. I would imagine that many AD's are really ND's in disguise (blame the gun). Same thing happens in aviation, most accidents are a result of pilot error and very rarely the aircrafts system. People taking shortcuts. Procedures and basic firearm safety rules have been written in blood. Some folks though can't learn from other's mistakes and insist on making their own. So be it. Me? ... I take no shortcuts with firearm safety and don't let others distract me while I'm handling firearms. I prefer to not be a lesson for someone else to ignore.

February 13, 2001, 01:38 AM	#23
Zander Junior member Join Date: December 11, 2000 Location: Middle and East Tennessee, USA Posts: 2,059	You did?!? "I called the cops to file a report..." Where do you live/work that you felt compelled to do such a thing? Are you an LEO? I don't mean to be rude, but if you don't have to account for every round discharged as a condition of employment, your reaction is one of the dumbest things I've had the misfortune to hear.

February 10, 2001, 02:21 PM	#1
IanS Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,632	Does anyone have any stories to share? It can happen to anyone, even seasoned military and police types. After 10 years of shooting I still haven't had one but as the saying goes "accidents will happen".

February 10, 2001, 02:48 PM	#2
Doc Hudson Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2001 Location: Mississippi Delta Posts: 635	Be patient Ian. You will eventually have an Accidental Discharge. I've had two over the years and each was cause by the "Just One More Syndrome." I'd been practiceing draw and fire for a while with an unloaded gun. After I finished and reloaded, I failed to follow a cardinal rule of dryfiring. I failed to secure my revolver so that it must be conciously unsecured before firing. #1 resulted in a hole in a large pillow and into the wall, # 2 resulted in a broke window pane. Never use your TV for a dryfire target. Doc Hudson

February 10, 2001, 03:15 PM	#3
IanS Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,632	DocHudson, I know I can't wait. Maybe I just need to get it out of my system. Did the police show up and how did they treat it?

February 10, 2001, 03:54 PM	#5
BB Junior member Join Date: August 17, 1999 Posts: 812	I had one once; but it was only because it had been so long and I was excited. My girlfriend said it was no big deal, it happens to lots of guys, but...

February 10, 2001, 04:19 PM	#6
Topgun77th Member Join Date: December 20, 2000 Posts: 26	I saw two people trying to get a shotgun that had jammed, cleared. One of the people held down the action release and struck the butt onto the ground. BANG!!! No way I could see if her finger slipped onto the trigger. Several that were close by could not tell. I don't think she did because the tang safety was still engaged when we picked the gun out of the sand. We all decieded that it was a great time to take a break. PS we tried to get the shotgun to repeat the dischage with out success. Go Figure. Big Difference between and Accidental Discharge ( My Gun Broke ) and a Unintentional Dischage ( My Mind Broke ). There, but by the grace of God, go I. or somthin like that. Stay Safe CLC

February 10, 2001, 06:10 PM	#8
Gonzo308 Junior Member Join Date: January 20, 2001 Posts: 14	Ian, I've told this story before but I'll prove I'm a fool again. After a long day on the Dept. range completing some advanced tactical C.E., several of us were in the classroom cleaning our weapons. I had finished cleaning and reassembling my pistol, performed a function check and loaded the pistol. Dropped my mag to insert my "Barney Round" to top off the mag and got called over to settle an argument over a football game. We talked for a while and I went back to my pistol, the mag is on the table and the gun is sitting next to it assembled, I forgot 2 things... 1) treat EVERY gun as if it were loaded ALL THE TIME!!!!!! 2) Always check to see if a gun is loaded BEFORE you pull the trigger. So, being the fool my darling wife married I picked up the pistol and pulled the trigger as if I were performing a function check. BANG!!! I KIA'd a Poster about gun safety that was on the wall next to me. I am now the poster child for the Chief's Dept safety program. I also learned something else that day. the guys on my shift are VERY thirsty when someone else is buying the beer!

February 11, 2001, 02:33 PM	#10
Doc Hudson Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2001 Location: Mississippi Delta Posts: 635	No cops either time, just much embarrassment. Another Negligent discharge story. This time it was not me pulling the trigger. In the mid-1970's S&W M-29's were about as scarce as hen's teeth. A Troy PD officer managed to latch on to a new 6" barreled beauty. On his day off, he dropped by the cop shop to show off his new acquisition. As the gun made the rounds of the cops in the radio room, if finally reached Grady. Lots of talk about the beauty, the finish, the power, all that Dirty harry stuff. When Grady got it into his hot little hands, his first act was to thumb back the hammer. His second and third acts took place simultaneously. Grady asked, "Is this thang loaded?" as he yanked the trigger. KAAAAAAABBBBOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A large hole appeared in a brand new radio base station and the wall of the radio room. Both Grady and the S&W owner got suspensions for that little fiasco. The Owner for passing around a loaded gun, and Grady for reckless discharge. To the best of my knowledge, Grady has yet to live down that incident. Doc Hudson

February 11, 2001, 04:01 PM	#11
Chad Young Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 1999 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 601	Well, thankfuly, no NDs (Negligent Discharges), but one AD. I had an older modem Norinco 9mm pistol. We were about to go cold for a sec so I pressed the hammer drop device and "pop" the gun fired. The firing assembly had been improperly assembled by the previous owner and the hammer fell right on an unblocked firing pin. Thankfully, I had the muzzle downrange and everyone was waiting for the all clear before going down range. Remember - AD - Accidental Discharge - Gun failure; no finger on trigger. ND - Negligent Discharge - Operator failure, finger on trigger.

February 11, 2001, 04:14 PM	#12
IanS Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,632	That's a very good distinction between: Accidental Discharge (AD) and Negligent Discharge (ND) Negligent Discharges are probably more common I would think.

February 11, 2001, 10:03 PM	#14
juliet charley Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Posts: 2,501	I believe it was Skeeter Skelton who said there are only two kinds of people (referring to shooters) those who have had an accidental discharge and those who have not had one yet. I would venture most of accidental discharges invole fatigue or being in hurry (or both).

February 11, 2001, 10:24 PM	#15
The Observer Member Join Date: August 11, 2000 Location: Pacific Rim Posts: 87	Greetings: 'never had an AD's and thanks to God and thanks to good advises from experts like in this board and other sources. To my mind, accidents will occur if there is mechanical failures on the gun or negligence on the part of the user by overlooking all safety and precautionary measures. Thanks

February 12, 2001, 12:50 AM	#16
Vyper45 Junior member Join Date: January 12, 2001 Posts: 40	I had an AD in febuary, I cleaned my Glock 30, put it together, and pulled a new box of remington GSHP's out, loaded the 2 9 rd mags, slammed one in the pistol, finger off trigger, tumbed slide release, due to a high primer and heavy 21# recoil spring, KABOOOM!, ruptured case, I have cuts on the forehead, killed a window, and hit a tree across the way, I called the cops to file a report, me and 4 other cops went over the box of ammo 5 times and found 6 other dangerously high primers out of the 24 left, needless to say remington got a rather nasty phone call. I am also thinking about legal action as I don't want to think about what would have happened if I actually NEEDED the gun.

February 12, 2001, 12:51 AM	#17
Vyper45 Junior member Join Date: January 12, 2001 Posts: 40	PS, no charges were filed against me, actually the cops were impressed I had the balls to call them, but I needed a report.

February 12, 2001, 07:36 AM	#18
Ragin Cajun Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Posts: 265	Vyper45 This is a good reminder for all of us to check our ammunition! Quite by accident I found a box of 9mm that had several rounds where the bullet was seated at least an 1/8" deeper than the rest. As for your "high primers," hadn't thought of that one. Perhaps it would be wise to look over each we open. Whenever I am releasing the slide on a loaded mag I am careful to point the gun in a safe direction in case something goes wrong.

February 12, 2001, 08:35 AM	#19
Digger Member Join Date: January 26, 2000 Posts: 82	I have been blessed to be a Marine for the last 11 years. Several iterations of rifle ranges and live fire training. The only ND I've witnessed was a knucklehead fumbling with an M60 machine gun with his finger ON the trigger. The funny part was this was in the middle of the ground assault in Desert Storm. Very quickly, everyone up to the Battalion level were asking on the radio, "who's shooting at us?" To avoid the destruction by fire of the nearest Kuwaiti structure, I had to dime out the ND on the radio to the Battalion. Case closed, lots of embarrassment for the Marine. I've seen an AD too. An M249 (5.56 mm) belt fed Machine gun had the pin fall out of the trigger assembly, and thus, the trigger assembly came off in the Marine's hand. With nothing to stop the bolt from going back and forth, we got to watch about 120 rounds from the remaining belt take off into the dusky sky at about a 30 degree angle. Glad the Marine didn't freak and let go of the Gun!!! AS for me, I carry revolvers.....which solves a whole lot of the AD's you guys have mentioned. As for the ND's, well my wife will admit I'm still working on my brain....

February 12, 2001, 10:30 AM	#20
tyro Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2000 Posts: 404	Vyper45, When you wrote "remington GSHP's", were you referring to Remington Golden Saber High Performance?

February 12, 2001, 06:23 PM	#21
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	When I was about 14 I was messing with my dad's Llama 9mm. Had shot this gun, could field strip it and reassemble blindfolded. Dropped the mag, pulled the slide back nothing came out so I figure it's unloaded now, right? Pulled the trigger and blew a hole in the living room wall into a bedroom barely missing the dresser mirror. Hardball bullet then hit the ceiling, came back down and through another wall taking out a chunk of siding and buried itself in the ground. That feeling has stuck with me for over 30 years, I never pick up a gun without checking the chamber, have taught my kids to do the same.

February 12, 2001, 11:23 PM	#22
Vyper45 Junior member Join Date: January 12, 2001 Posts: 40	yes, remington Golden saber 185 gr. +P, I exclusively use corbon or triton now, no more big name ammo.

February 13, 2001, 10:22 AM	#24
Doc Hudson Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2001 Location: Mississippi Delta Posts: 635	Zander, Did you consider the need for a home owners insurance claim? Besides, it was better for him to call the cops than to wait for a knock on the door after a neighbor's complaint. Since he is considering legal action regarding the dangerous condition of his ammo, the pol;ice report would also be helpful there. So Zander, you can see the man had three pretty good reasons to get a police report filed. Doc Hudson

February 13, 2001, 06:07 PM	#25
Vyper45 Junior member Join Date: January 12, 2001 Posts: 40	Plus I'm good friends with the cops. I've gone shooting with them a number of times.