Expander dies

[oldbear1950]

I have a chance to pick up a couple of 3 die sets of Bonanza dies, with the depriming pin in the expander die. I do know after checking on line that Bonanza dies have a really good reputation, and in fact Bonanza was bought out by Foster, and the internal parts are interchangable for the most part.
Question is, how do you set up these dies, all my dies are of more recent manufacture with the depriming pin in the sizing die.
I have never used these type of dies.

[44 AMP]

You set them up just like any other die set. Adjust your expander to the correct amount of mouth flare, and the pin will be long enough to push out the fired primer.

Where you're going to have a problem is using them in the modern progressive presses.

Single stage press, no problem. Turret press, no problem, but with a progressive press, that expects you to decap at the first station, these dies aren't a good idea.

ITs an old style way of doing things, from the time when single stage presses ruled the market, and even back then most die makers decapped in the sizer die. Most, not all.

I have an old set of RCBS dies for one caliber (which was a custom order nearly 40 years ago when I got them) which is a 4 die set with the decapping pin in the expander die. All my other dies, Lyman, RCBS, even Lee have the decapper in the sizer die.

Not a problem for me, since I gave up on progressive presses after a few years of using a Dillon 450 and went back to a single stage press for all my loading.

[oldbear1950]

I still have a lee turret press and a RCBS rock chucker single stage press.
So If i use them, need to use the turret press

[std7mag]

You can use them in either of your presses mentioned.

I wouldn't use them in like a Dillon progressive press for loading pistol.

The Lee turret may be an issue as it wants you to size & deprime on the first station.

If your spinning the turret manually, as for rifle cartridges, no problem.

[Unclenick]

I think the turret press probably wants to charge cases via a powder-through expander. If it's a 4-holer, you could do that if you are willing to seat and crimp in the same step at the end. The Dillon, though insists on priming right after resizing, so the only way to use it is to resize and remove each case rather than let them advance, and then replace the sizing die with the expander die after they are all sized, and then run them progressively. This is why I own C-presses that do single operations like decapping when I need them done separately.

[oldbear1950]

I almost always use my turret press and turn the turret by hand. It is easier to check for things, and if I miss something is easier to go back. I almost always use my lyman or lee hand primers, and that takes away some steps on the turret press. So doing the steps different poses no problem. Just have to remember to prime after expanding instead of after sizing.

Besides, I picked up a couple of ch dies, and they both work that way. They were given to me, and when I called ch they explained the still make a couple sets that way.

[44 AMP]

Loading revolver rounds, I've found the two places cases are most likely to crack (IF they do) are either during expanding/flaring or during seating/crimping.

I've gotten away from progressives a long time ago, and run my brass in batches on a single stage press. And, I've also stopped "on the press" priming, a long time ago. that way, if a case cracks during expanding, there no primer in it to worry about reclaiming.

IF I get a SMALL crack in the case mouth on crimping, generally I toss the round into my "shoot one last time, NOT for serious use" can. A larger /longer crack, and I pull down the round.

There's nothing wrong with decapping with the expander die, its just not the most convenient thing these days with new progressive or "auto advance" type presses.

[oldbear1950]

I have a new hornaday lock n load progressive press, a Lee turret press with 4 die holders, and a RCBS rock chucker single stage press, I have had a long time.
I always run my cases thru the depriming/sizing stage, check the cases, in fact tumble them again , check for cracks, prime them with a Lee or Lyman hand primer, then run them thru either the turret press, or the progressive press. I stopped using the press primer years ago.

I also have a LEE hand press, I have never used. In fact I had one, I got up in Alaska, back in the 1980s, never used it , wound up giving it to my brother. I got another one to use just in case. But have never used it either. I understand that the had press, is take off on an old ideal/lyman press that the old buffalo hunters used back in the 1880s to load while out on the range. I guess if you had powder, bullets, primers and cases could use it at the range.

[Unkl Chuck]

Oldbear, I take the decapping pin out of all my dies and use a Lee decapping die on an old Lee Reloader press. Keeps all the mess off my good presses and I can clean my brass before sizing, etc. Also, I use a hand priming tool for priming. I'm not a 'high volume' reloader, though.

[oldbear1950]

I use a hand priming tool always! I have both the lee hand priming tool, and the lyman hand priming tool. and have always found it quicker to use than the one on the press.
In fact the one on my turret press, and the two on the hornady lock n load progressive press, are not hooked up to use. The idea of the universal depriming tool is new, and sounds like a good idea.

[44 AMP]

The idea of the universal depriming tool is new, and sounds like a good idea.

The idea may be new to you, but its not a new idea. I've been using a "universal" decapping tool "off the press" since I began reloading in the early 70s. Its a punch and base set from LEE, works with every boxer primed case I've ever used. You supply the hammer...

I don't use it for every single case I reload, many, if not most I use the pin in the sizer die, but I do use it for a lot of my brass. There are some advantages along with the disadvantages. It's slow. That alone is enough for many people to pass on using it.

What I like about using the punch and base set is, I get to hit something, which I find has a relaxing effect... but also, you get to feel the flash hole. If its off center, under/oversize or anything else off normal, you feel that when you're inserting the pin. And, all the ash and mess doesn't go on/into your press. THe tool is made for decapping miitary crimped in primers, but I use it for lots of cases that never had crimped in primers.

And, if, somehow, you manage to break it, LEE will replace it, free. Additionally, the punch shaft (there are two sizes one for .22 and one for .30) are very useful for returning a bent case mouth to round (in those calibers and ones close), enough to go into the sizer.

[oldbear1950]

the bigger bullets thing is why I love the 45-70. Until you use it and fire it , you never know what the great big bullets will do, and they preform all out of kilter to what you think of paper ballistics

[44 AMP]

That is my take on it as well. And in rifles, the difference becomes really noticeable at about .35 caliber and up.

The .35 Rem isn't a lot, on paper, but in the deer woods it drops whitetails much better than its paper statistics indicate. And going to the more powerful .35s, (.35 Whelen, .350 Rem Mag etc) they act like the hammer of Thor, or so it seems.

.37 and .45 caliber rifles even more so. Some of that effect can also be seen in big bore handgun rounds as well.

Was shooting a .45 Colt 250gr LSWC at the range one time, and one of the guys there made a comment about "but that won't expand!"
To which my shooting buddy replied (beating me to it)..
"its a .45 caliber bullet, it doesn't need to expand!"

I've used jacketed, expanding bullets in my .45-70s and .458. They work, but you don't need them to expand. 99% of my shooting in those calibers is with cast slugs. I do have, somewhere, a box of Hornady 500gr FMJ RN, that I've been hanging on to for decades, just incase dinosaurs or large Ice Age mammals make a comeback. Or if I think I'll need to defeat light armored vehicles with a sporting rifle.... None of those had happened, yet, and I don't expect they will but I've got something to load up for that, IF they ever do!

[oldbear1950]

My sentiments exactly. I tried at one time both a 30-30 thompson center pistol, and the 35 remington pistol, I personally like the 35 remington better, and wish I still had it.
With good hard cast bullets, is nothing on the planet those 45-70s won't take,
was reading about garrett bullets in Africa, took all of the big 5. the guy actually shot two cape buffalos, a big bull, bullet exited and killed a cow on the off side the shooter did not see. Got em both with one shot

would like to have one of the 35 Whelan, when I was in Alaska, met a guide thought that was the cat meow, for bear, but that was back when it was a wildcat, not sure how the factory ammo works

[44 AMP]

The factory .35 Whelen works well.