7mm WSM with Berger 195gr Elite Hunter Bullets

[Wyoredman]

Has anyone experimented with the Berger 195gr Elite Hunter bullets in the 7mm WSM?

I am curious because I came across a box of the Berger 195's at an auction and was wondering if they would work in the WSM (short action).

At first glance, it appears they would be too long and would need seated too far into the case. I also do not find any data for them in the WSM from Berger.

If anyone has tried them in the 7mmWSM, please let me know what you tried? COAL is important. Powders are as well.

Thanks.

[stagpanther]

That must be a pretty new bullet--it doesn't even appear on their own twist stability calculator though the bullet description says 9 twist is fine. I do have their 190 hybrid targets which I use for my 7mm STW--which interestingly have a lower BC/SD value than these 195's....glad I read your post.

I'm guessing these are intended for very large capacity magnum class 7mm--like the STW, RUM and 28 nosler--doesn't seem much point to me in driving a heavy bullet for intermediate distance when a lighter one would likely do just as well or better; but that's just speculation on my part.

[Wyoredman]

https://bergerbullets.com/product/7-...-elite-hunter/

This is the bullet.

It is 1.648" long. Pretty extreme.

My rifle has a 1:8 twist barrel. I have shot the Berger 175gr pretty successfully. But I loaded the 175 gr bullets to COAL of 2.865". Looks like I may need to stretch the COAL out to 2.999"? Not sure if my chamber will handle that length.

[georgehwbush]

that link says they are exactly like the "Berger Hybrid Target series" except the jacket is thiner. for more expansion at lower velocity basicly. so i would compare to a hybrid target bullet of as near as possible weight. and go from there. but no. i have never tried them.

[stagpanther]

I have a 270 WSM, one of the drawbacks to the WSM in general is that long high SD bullets eat up internal capacity real estate if the freebore isn't long enough to seat long, and the WSM was after all marketed at short actions. Should be pretty easy to simply use a modified case to see how long you can seat the bullet--might not be enough even for the base of ogive to clear the neck mouth--I don't know. 195 gr is a considerable way off from the 175 gr commonly seen as the max weight bullet--I would suggest trying the 180, 183 and 185 as intermediates first. The 183 gr matchkings, BTW, I have found to be excellent performing "big 7's."

[Wyoredman]

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

Update:

I loaded 5 rounds of 7mm WSM with the 195gr Berger Bullets. I used 60.0 gr of Hodgdon Retumbo and Federal 210 primers in Winchester cases. I seated the bullets for a COAL of 2.980". They needed to be fed into the chamber individually because they were too long for the magazine. They were not sticking in the lands. The rifle is built on a Model 700 short action with a 22" barrel.

I shot the 5 rounds over my Competition Electronics chrony. They averaged 2528 fps with an SD of 14 and an extreme spread of 25fps! Recoil was mild, there was zero bolt stick and no signs of high pressure on the primer or case head.

If I am correct, by looking at the velocity and by examining the fired cases, 60.0 gr of Retumbo is probably on the very low end of the pressure curve? Am I correct? I would like to see 2700 fps with the 195 gr Bergers.

I have loaded 5 each at 62.0, 63.0, 64.0 and 65.0 gr. of Retumbo to test next. I stopped at 65.0 gr because that is the starting load Berger gives for their 180 gr VLD hunting bullet in their manual. I also shortened up the COAL from 2.980 to 2.970".

If I start seeing pressure indications prior to reaching 65.0 gr, I will stop the testing.

I have not shot these test loads yet, but I will report back.

If anyone has any input, please let me know. I am very open to suggestions because this is my first foray into loading a bullet that does not have any published data.

Thanks.

[stagpanther]

I think I see what you're doing--you're seating the bullet as far out as you can in the hopes of jamming as much powder in the case as possible to chase the highest velocity possible? I know retumbo is pretty tolerant of some compression--but I personally wouldn't wander into double digit over 100% myself.

[Wyoredman]

I came to that seating depth by looking at the seating depth recommended in the Berger manual for the 180 gr bullet, then calculating the length of the bullet that is "inside" the case. I then seated the 195 gr bullet to the same depth in the case. Berger manual says that the 180 gr bullet seated at this depth compacts a max load of Retumbo (I think 69 gr, I am not at my bench) to 105%. So if I seat this 195 to the to the same depth, the powder compaction should be the same? Correct? Or am I messing this up?


I should have put this in the first post. My bad:
CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

[stagpanther]

I came to that seating depth by looking at the seating depth recommended in the Berger manual for the 180 gr bullet, then calculating the length of the bullet that is "inside" the case. I then seated the 195 gr bullet to the same depth in the case. Berger manual says that the 180 gr bullet seated at this depth compacts a max load of Retumbo (I think 69 gr, I am not at my bench) to 105%. So if I seat this 195 to the to the same depth, the powder compaction should be the same? Correct? Or am I messing this up?

I took your revised COL measurements and ran them in quickload--while there is some variation in case capacity between cases I still was coming up with a fill that approached the full H2O capacity for your cases minus 5grs +/- for the neck area volume. None of your loads came in at less than 110% compression, which, again, in itself did not return an over-pressure warning. I've gotten into this type of discussion before and simply speaking for myself, I'd be more concerned about the possible "unknowns" going wrong. If it were me I would be looking at a different powder possibly that would get me closer to my target velocity (assuming there is a better choice). Just my (less than) 2 cents--I'm not saying you are wrong to pursue this.

[Wyoredman]

Thanks. Much appreciated input.

I can verify that 64.0 gr of Retumbo was well below the case neck/case shoulder junction on the 7mmWSM case. I inspected each case with a flashlight prior to seating bullets.

I just need to shoot the 62.0 gr loads and find a velocity. Then make another decision!

[stagpanther]

Your freebore must be a mile long.

[Wyoredman]

Also, thanks for the Quickload info about no pressure warnings. Eases my mind somewhat.

[Wyoredman]

The bullet nose (in front of the ogive) is a mile long. I don't have the gauge to measure length to ogive!

[stagpanther]

Don't forget my tagline--I'm no expert and you should not take anything I say as accurate concerning reloading, load charges or what I think Quickload says without verifying for yourself!

[tangolima]

A lot of high-performance bullets have long pointy nose. They can be loaded pretty long with worrying about too little bullet jump.

Does the bullet fly stable? A quick check with antiquated Greenhill equation indicated instability.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Wyoredman]

Yes, they shot pretty well at 100 yds. The group was right around 1". I was shooting for velocity, not grouping. The rifle does have a fast twist.