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Old June 7, 2001, 06:56 PM   #1
nine fingers
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With Memorial Day and D Day just past and all the hoopla about the Pearl Harbor movie I've been thinking a lot about
the meaning of COURAGE and BRAVERY. Using the premise that courage is knowing the risk and being afraid, but going ahead anyway: Who is the breavest person you have ever known?

My breavest person would have to be my Father-in-law. He was a Navy pilot in the Pacific during WWII. When I asked him one day if he was ever scared he replied, "I never made a carrier landing with my eyes open."

P.S. He never missed an assigned mission.
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Old June 7, 2001, 07:10 PM   #2
exgi
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my uncle "won" 9 purple hearts between ww2 and korea. he had 4 tanks shot out from under him. at 86 he is still going strong and i would not want to make him mad.
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Old June 7, 2001, 07:51 PM   #3
Steel
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This may not be in line with what you are thinking, but there are many that go unnoticed, such as courageous & sacrificial single moms/fathers out there, missionaries, disabled folks, etc.
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Old June 7, 2001, 08:05 PM   #4
MellowMikey
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Steel,
So true, some people face each day with more bravery than we will ever know.

Well, I was a cop with a jarhead that was the bravest/craziest sob I ever met. I would follow him anywhere, and if I ever tried to get in front of him, he would knock me out of the way so he could go first.
Man I love that guy. My best friend too BTW.

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Old June 7, 2001, 08:10 PM   #5
ckurts
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One of my wife's brothers. Drafted and went to Vietnam, served as a door gunner. He was shot down behind the DMZ and saw all of his crewmates die. Wounded himself and MIA for something like 20 days. Fought his way back to an American firebase, first helping some RVN's call in an airstrike and then helping another American to be rescued. This ain't no sea story- my mom-in-law has all the newspaper clippings. He got out on a medical discharged because of wounds, stayed civilian and healed up, then joined the Navy and recently retired from submarine service. He is without a doubt one of the kindest and most gentle people I've ever met in my life, a true "gentle giant".
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Old June 7, 2001, 08:50 PM   #6
AnotherPundit
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The funny thing is, "bravery" isn't a quality that gets talked up much these days. Not sure why.

Come to think of it, I only know one vietnam vet; helicopter door gunner in vietnam, shot down five times, purple heart. Odd thing is, these days he's a professional fantasy writer -- and doing very, very well at it.
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Old June 7, 2001, 08:57 PM   #7
George Hill
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One of my 4 year olds. This morning the little guy was learning to ride his bike... he had a bad high side spill.
With a quivering lip he climbed back and and by God he RODE!

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Old June 7, 2001, 09:41 PM   #8
urban assault
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Without a doubt, the bravest person I have ever known would be my grandfather, who has now moved on to someplace nicer. He was captured on Corregidor, in the Phillipines. He was a survivor of the Bataan deathmarch and watched many of his fellow soldiers die on the way to the camp. While in the camp, he helped kill a vicious Japanese prison guard and got away with it. When he was captured on the Rock he was about 170 lbs. When liberated, he weighed under 90 lbs. He was a very quiet and dignified gentleman. The reason why he was a hero to me is NOT so much because he survived, but because he didnt give into the hatred and rage that he felt right after the war. My grandfather regarded the vast majority of Japanese people as innocent of the atrocities committed by their goverment and held no animosity for them. In fact, he developed a wonderful friendship with a former japanese soldier and they often went hunting and fishing together. My grandfather never talked alot about being a prisoner of war, but I gently pried it out of him over time. He was a true class act and warrior and I miss him ever single damn day.

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Old June 7, 2001, 09:49 PM   #9
ArmySon
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My mother and father.

They left everything, family, friends, material items, etc by escaping a communist country to provide a better life for their children. In my birth country, my parents had a life and language that was comfortable to them. Instead, they risked everything, learned a new language, skills, culture, etc because of their love for my sister, brother and I.

They now live in a land that's 'free'. Yet, that freedom did not come without a sacrifice. 95% of the family still lives in that country... far far away.

My writing could never exemplify their courage or love.

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Old June 7, 2001, 09:51 PM   #10
gryphon
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my grandfather.

WW2 vet, about 5/6 medals to boot for his troubles.

I didn't really know him well, and my Dad has all his medals locked up. There has never been a negative word spoke about the man by anyone in our family.
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Old June 7, 2001, 11:13 PM   #11
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Funny Answer:

That would be the scrawny old guy who, one day, was pulled over by two officers I know. One of these officers has a neck that is larger than my thigh. He looks like he eats raw meat. He is e-fricken-normous. The other officer? Even bigger.

This guy...what does he do? He looks at these two and says to himself "yeah...I can take 'em."

Mommas...don't let yer babies grow up to be crackheads...

Serious answer:

My grandfather. Mercifully still with us- I don't know him as well as I should. He was present at D-Day, and later had a cold Christmas in Bastogne. He never talked about it much- never flashes his medals- just says he was doing his job.

Mike
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Old June 7, 2001, 11:49 PM   #12
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I would have to say it was one of my uncles. Was at Iwo Jama (spelling) during WWII. I once asked him what kept him alive while so many others didn?t make it. His answer was that while others were huddling around the fire to keep warm, he was busy cleaning his rifle. Said that most died because their guns got jammed from the sand. As a result of his little stay on the island, he lost all of his teeth and most of his hair. He also had night mares up until the day he died.

Unlike urban assault?s grandfather, my Dad and all of my uncles who fought during WWII hate the Japanese and still do. In fact, I?ve never met a WWII vet who fought against Japan who still did not hold any animosity towards them. I remember one time when my cousin brought home a girl friend from college, a nice little Japanese girl. My uncle beat the living crap out of my cousin and told the girl never to see him again. Yes that is extreme prejudice. After what he went through, I can?t really blame him though. I?ve always thought that our countries (US & Japan) would never truly be able to make peace until the WWII generation has passed on. I grew up with them telling me from time to time?. Don?t ever forget what I?m telling you. Don?t let this happen again. Don?t ever trust the Japanese.

They would be disappointed because I do not hold any such preconceived ideas. I judge a person based upon what they do rather than any other factor. But I do have a philosophy, ?Trust but Verify?.


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Old June 8, 2001, 12:53 AM   #13
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Tie.
My uncle who jumped from the stern of a speeding destroyer in the battle against the Kamikazi's at Okinawa THREE times in two days and pulled American pilots from their crashed planes and kept them afloat until rescued.

My mother who, when dying of cancer in the hospital, tried to comfort me. When it should have been the other way around.
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Old June 8, 2001, 07:50 AM   #14
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Nice topic.

I would hazard to say that any man or boy who has an adequate level of testosterone and average or above intelligence has performed heroic acts, most of which were unnoticed at the time and will remain unsung. But, I'll offer this:

Any WWI, WWII, Korea, or Vietnam Infantryman. No REMFs need apply.

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Old June 8, 2001, 08:19 AM   #15
HankB
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I'd say the bravest person in history (Ok, PRE-history) was that guy back in the Neolithic who one day, sitting in front of his clan's cave watching a herd of wild perhistoric cattle go by, announced "I leave spear here. I go to cow. I squeeze bottom. I drink what come out."

The birth of the entire dairy industry!

What made him especially brave was the fact that his late brother made the same announcement the previous day, but made the mistake of picking the herd's bull . . .
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Old June 8, 2001, 08:31 AM   #16
38Mike
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Bravest?

Nathan Dudley, Pastor, Calvary Apostolic Church, Wichita, KS

LIVES what he preaches......


Mike M.
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Old June 8, 2001, 08:59 AM   #17
CarbineKid
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I did not know this person, but I believe he is the bravest ever. He was my uncle, and he lived in Belgium during WWII. His village was invaded, and conqured. The Germans ordered the people of the village to work for the Nazis. My uncle stood up and refused to do so(he was the only one). My aunt says the SS took him into the woods....he was never seen again
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Old June 8, 2001, 09:14 AM   #18
Dave R
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My wife. Seven childbirths. Six natural. Her choice each time.
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Old June 8, 2001, 09:44 AM   #19
SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI
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I personally can't say I've known anyone who is extraordinarily brave, but this is one of the bravest men I've ever heard of; during the battle of Leyte Gulf, he fought off Japanese cruisers and battleships in a destroyer escort!. An American Indian, he was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. They don't make 'em like this anymore:


*EVANS, ERNEST EDWIN

Rank and organization: Commander, U.S. Navy. Born: 13 August 1908, Pawnee, Okla. Accredited to: Oklahoma. Other Navy awards: Navy Cross, Bronze Star Medal. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of the U.S.S. Johnston in action against major units of the enemy Japanese fleet during the battle off Samar on 25 October 1944. The first to lay a smokescreen and to open fire as an enemy task force, vastly superior in number, firepower and armor, rapidly approached. Comdr. Evans gallantly diverted the powerful blasts of hostile guns from the lightly armed and armored carriers under his protection, launching the first torpedo attack when the Johnston came under straddling Japanese shellfire. Undaunted by damage sustained under the terrific volume of fire, he unhesitatingly joined others of his group to provide fire support during subsequent torpedo attacks against the Japanese and, outshooting and outmaneuvering the enemy as he consistently interposed his vessel between the hostile fleet units and our carriers despite the crippling loss of engine power and communications with steering aft, shifted command to the fantail, shouted steering orders through an open hatch to men turning the rudder by hand and battled furiously until the Johnston, burning and shuddering from a mortal blow, lay dead in the water after 3 hours of fierce combat. Seriously wounded early in the engagement, Comdr. Evans, by his indomitable courage and brilliant professional skill, aided materially in turning back the enemy during a critical phase of the action. His valiant fighting spirit throughout this historic battle will venture as an inspiration to all who served with him.

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Old June 8, 2001, 09:49 AM   #20
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Two people come to mind.

I once worked with a LEO two years younger than me. He's a sgt. now at 27 and still works for the same small town PD in rural Florida. I never saw the man show any fear. Not once.

He stood in a burning smoke filled hospital and carried invalid patients out windows for an hour. The smoke was so thick we could only see his smoke covered arms from the windows. He saved a dozen lives that day. He needed to be treated for smoke inhalation.

And my buddy Bob who died of cancer on Feb. 5th, 2001. He was as a LEO all of his life except for the two tours in Vietnam. He fought cancer for almost two years. The only fight he couldn't win was the one inside of him. God bless him and may he rest in peace.

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Old June 8, 2001, 10:24 AM   #21
critter44
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A coworker of mine is a Viet Nam vet. Nothing 'spectacular', but a very brave man nevertheless. Many jungle patrols, many times he was the point man. Treking through the jungles looking for the enemy behind every tree, snipers in every treetop, tripwires along the ground (never walk on the trails!), punji pits, mines, etc. Then when the enemy was encountered, a few furious minutes of fighting hell, fall back, lay on the deck, call in snoopy, pop smoke and have miniguns laying down fire so close to his own position that the impact kicked dirt on him!

Hay guys, all these 'regular old grunts' who slogged thru the jungles of Nam, went into the icy mts of Korea, fought on little sand and stone lumps jutting out of the south Pacific in WWII or stormed the beaches on D-day---they all have big ole brass ones that knock together and ring like bells when they walk! I salute all of them!
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Old June 9, 2001, 05:22 AM   #22
Hal
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My wife.
Courage has many faces.
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Old June 9, 2001, 01:01 PM   #23
Ed Brunner
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My hero.

Of all the brave people I have known, and there are and have been many, my real hero is my brother Francis. He was born with Down's Syndrome. He is 54 years old now and has had a good life, but it hasn't been easy for him. He worked since he was eighteen and only stopped as a result of his second open-heart surgery. He had the first when he was about thirty and had a porcine valve implanted. It lasted an amazing twenty years. Last year he was on his way to catch a bus about 6;00 AM for the twenty-mile ride to work when he got his foot stuck between the sidewalk and the curb. When he fell, it broke his foot off. He had surgery to repair it and was doing nicely in rehab when his heart valve crashed. When he got to the hospital, he was so bad that the doctors didn't give him a chance, but they started giving him blood etc. and said that they would see what he looked like in the morning. Surprisingly, he was alive in the morning. The surgeon, who was one of the best in the country told my brother Pete that Francis had less than an even chance of living through the surgery. The doctor was amazed when Francis survived. He told Pete "The man is really awesome !". He also said that the pre-surgery odds really had been "less than even" They were about twenty to one against. They replaced the porcine valve with a bovine one and cleaned up the mitral valve.
After about two days I called him on the phone. He was real weak, but happy to hear from me. His hero has always been John Wayne, so I said "Francis, You are about as tough as John Wayne". The weak voice on the other end said: "I can whip his ass". He has been my hero for a long time. This is just one example of why.
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Old June 9, 2001, 01:53 PM   #24
44rugerfan
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My rancher friend's dad. He also survived the Bataan death march. He was a sniper. He could take the eyeball out of a deer at 250 yards. He's in his eighties now, and every time I see him I know he has endured more than I can imagine. I would cower in fear if he ever became angry at me.
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