A sorry Springfield Armory story

[Quartus]

Well, one of the purposes of this forum is for us to share information. So here's my experience with Springfield.

In July, I signed up for a John Farnam defensive handgunning class here in Utah. The co-instructor was Dennis Tueller. Thinking I should get tuned up a little, I took my Springfield 1911 hi-cap out to the local range and burned up about 300 rounds. Which chewed up the web of my hand quite a bit. The lower edges of the grip safety were ragged. (I had bought this a few years ago and had no chance to shoot it much. I had maybe 50 rounds through it before this. Long story.)

I took it in to a local gunsmith (Barlow's Custom Guns, Salt Lake City) and asked him to drop in a beavertail, and polish the action a bit. It was okay, but there was room for improvement. After a several phone calls and promises not kept, he finally told me (The day before the class!!!) that the gun was out of spec and not safe to shoot. He said it would follow badly, and was surprised that I had gotten a few hundred rounds out of it with no problems. Hmmm. More on that later.

So, I called Dennis to let him know I'd have to cancel. Now, a lot of you know Dennis Tueller by reputation. He's the originator of the Tueller Drill, has taught at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, etc. What I found out about him is that he is not just a highly qualified shooting instructor - he's a fine gentleman. When I explained my problem, he double checked what I was shooting, and offered to loan me HIS .45!!! He'd never laid eyes on me - we'd talked on the phone some. And meeting him (and his son) at the class only confirmed my high opinion of that man. BTW, the class was a blast, the .45 was a sweet piece, and I shot well. What more could you want?

Back to Springfield. I called, got an RMA, and shipped it to them the first week of August. I got it back last week. That's 15 WEEKS to inspect a pistol and tell me there is no problem with it. After MANY phone calls to very pleasant people who never knew anything (I'm sorry, I don't seem to have that information here. I'll have to check and call you back.) I finally got a "No problem found." from them. Oh, that business about calling me back? Never. Not once, until the very last time, when I complained about the fact that I had never been called back as promised. "Oh, we've called you several times and emailed you several times!" Liar! Don't try to tell an engineer who almost lives on email that he somehow missed the fact that you emailed him - that ain't gonna fly! And ONE, exactly ONE return phone call, only after I had complained.

So, is the pistol safe to shoot? Dunno for sure. My gut feeling is that it's just fine. Dennis spoke well of Barlow's work, but did admit that his follow up and customer service is a bit lacking. Several at the class agreed. I suspect he put it off to the last minute, then told me a story to cover that, but that's just a guess. I'm sending it to a friend of mine (who is a capable smith) to check it out. He's keeping it, because I decided I just don't like the feel of the double stack. Meanwhile, I've got a very nice new Sistema that shoots just fine!

Bottom line for me is, no Springfields in my future. There's no reason for a simple inspection to take 15 weeks, there's no excuse for never getting called back as promised, and there's no excuse for lying about it.


So with that I'm off to some unheard of city in China for a while, and don't expect to have access to this board til I'm back. So flame away, boys! I can't defend myself!

[blades67]

It is possible that they have tried to e-mail you but have an incorrect e-mail address in their records. The callbacks, or lack thereof, are a great big dropped ball.

If your friend the gunsmith finds that the pistol is fine, and your feeling that Barlow lied about the gun is true, why wouldn't Springfield rate a second chance? Just because you didn't get called back, or you felt they had your gun for longer than you felt they should have it? Doesn't seem to me that you're giving Springfield any chance.

[George Hill]

That is pretty much my complaint regarding Springfield as well.
They have ZERO skill when it comes to Customer Service. But they do score big points in offering RMA numbers to ANYONE who calls them and they give great lip service.

Call Backs and Returned Emails are not something to look for. If they give you an "I'll call you back." You give them a "No, I'll call YOU back in 10 Minutes."
Now, my gun was returned to me much better than I expected... this is a vast difference then your story... You didn't get anything done. I can totally understand where you are coming from.

The surprise though is the poor response from Barlow. He is the leading Gunsmith in Utah... If you guys know of a better one - Let me know. Especially if he is in or near Orem.

BTW, my next 1911 will probably be a Colt. Commander model.

[Quartus]

Hiya, blades. I find I do have internet access here in the stinking (literally) P.R.C., just very limited time (the client is insane) but you raise some good points so I'll take a moment to answer.

It is possible that they have tried to e-mail you but have an incorrect e-mail address in their records.

No, they DID email me once. They never complained about an email bouncing back as it would if they had the wrong one. I had emailed them, so they had the right one.

why wouldn't Springfield rate a second chance?

Two words: customer service. I have no complaint (obviously) about a gun that wasn't defective. But 15 weeks to tell me 'no trouble found'???? And the callback issue, and they lied to me. That's reason enough in my book. Had they not lied to me aboiut the call backs and email, but had apologised for the delay and not tried to excuse it, I'd give them another chance.



George:

You didn't get anything done.

I got it inspected and a clean bill of health. That was fine. That's what I sent it in for.


But there's one other point, gentlemen. I told them on the phone and by email WHY I was sending it in. They KNEW the rough edges of their gun had chewed up the web of my hand. You can SEE the irregularities on the lower edges of that safety.

Why didn't they fix THAT?

Blades, I think I gave them a lot of chances.

George, I share your puzzlement about Barlow. He came highly recommended from a number of folks. THe one drawback that was mentioned is that he often takes much longer than promised for work. It could be as simple as an honest mistake on his part, but for a master gunsmith to be getting specs wrong would be a strange thing.

I dunno. I ain't saying no one should deal with him, just tellin' ya what happened to me.

BTW, this is a premium name among gun manufacturers. Sprinfeild Armory is a Name in the gun industry, with a long history. They should be setting an example for the rest of the industry. But check their web

THEY DON'T KNOW (or care about) THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MUZZLE BREAK AND A MUZZLE BRAKE!!!

I say they don't care because I have called and emailed them about it and they don't correct it.

[ZekeLuvs1911]

Sorry to hear your sad story. This is why I finally invested in a Wilson Protector and Classic Custom. You can read my stories about them on 1911Forum. Customer service is top notch as well as their pistols. Better than anything Kimber, Springfield Armoury, Colt or any other factory company will put out. Ever! I own a Springfield Armoury, 2 Kimbers and a Colt. I'm speaking from experience. Kimber's custom shop gave me the impression that they didn't really want to be bothered with. Wilson took care of my problem and then proceeded to talk guns with me for 20 minutes after the issue was resolved. Very friendly and non-pushy people. My .02

[ATTICUS]

Sorry to hear of your experience captainH. I'm still waiting for an M1A scope package. Was told again yesterday that I'm next on the list (I've been told that three times- the first time was in October). I was connected with a mangers voice mail yesterday and she was DEFINATELY going to return my call before 5:00 PM. Needless to say, I didn't receive a call and probably won't. If I didn't like the rifle so much I would put it on that "trading" thread, and be done with SA for good. I've never dealt with such a pompous and irresponsible company before (utility companies excluded). I'll never send another dime to Brazil unless it's for bananas and/or coffee. And I won't pay in advance. Got fooled once -shame on me.

[George Hill]

I think Barlow's main problem is that he is just getting flat out too busy. A lot more people are going to him instead of a lot of other smaller gunsmiths because he is the best and there are a lot of horror stories out there about shoddy smiths.

I'd really like to find some alternatives... Like one guy who is really good at checkering. Another who is great at triggers, etc.

Last smith I worked with other than Barlow here in Utah, was a butcher. He ruined more guns than he fixed. Needless to say - he aint around anymore. (That sounded ominous.) I mean, he isn't working on guns anymore.

[Kentucky Rifle]

"I'll never send another dime to Brazil..."
Did you tell me a Taurus "horror story"? I've heard several lately and I have a difficult time keeping straight who told me what.
(Or have I misunderstood? THAT happens a lot!)

Thanks,
KR

[ATTICUS]

Kentucky rifle: Nope, I was referring to SA. I did have a Taurus many years ago (long ago traded) but never had problems with the Taurus Mfg. or their pistol.