the Steyr question again

[Zundfolge]

Has there been an importer chosen for the Steyr pistols yet? I know Dynamit-Noble is the rifle importer (at least the hunting rifles).

And whats the deal with Dynamit-Noble anyway ... they took over the importing of Steyr-Mannleicher rifles from GSI but seem to have refused to take on their handgun line and when you look over their sight ( http://www.dnrws.com/ ) they seem to be one of those companies who feels the 2nd amendment is only about hunting and that they will support whatever gun control comes our way as long as it doesn't prevent hunting.

I could be grossly wrong (but that would help explain why they aren't the importer for Steyr Pistols or Steyr Military/LEO weapons).

This opinion also comes from the response several of us have recieved when we emailed DN and asked about the Steyr Pistols. The response was something like "Yes we're the importer for Steyr rifles but Heavens NO we'd NEVER consider importing pistols"

[Jimmy Mac]

The pistol is unsafe.

No major police agency is going to allow its people to carry it because it is a single action.

There was so many problems with this pistol they know it will not sell. There are still several in the country now and they can't sell them.

Also they are most likely worried about the liaibility of selling a dangerous pistol.

This thing is dead and it is best left that way.

Their reason for not importing the handgun is a good sound bisusness desision. It has nothing to do with PC.

[utvols]

how is the pistol unsafe?
i know of quite a few people who have purchased them and this is the first i've ever heard of them being unsafe.

[mons-meg]

Not this again....I thought we had already decided the horse was dead?

[tetchaje]

Jimmy Mac is on his soap-box again...

Do a search on this forum about the Steyr M40...heck, I'll do it for you. Here you go -- the ultimate Jimmy Mac rebuttal.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...teyr+sear+part

There is nothing wrong with the Steyr design. It is what the Glock should be -- better trigger, better ergonomics, better sights, optional manual safety, nice metal magazines, utter reliability, and cheaper to boot. Buy one now while they are cheap.

Mac's claims are nonsense. He has an axe to grind with the Steyrs...

[lockandrock]

Also looks better than the glocks. The slide finish and the round trigger guard goes a long distance to the appearance of this gun.

[spacemanspiff]

jimmy, just because you dont like the steyr handgun products and you feel they are unsafe doesnt mean that others arent interested in them. so you cant just say its a dead issue and expect that everyone else will jump when you say jump.
my m40 and m9 has been nothing but safe. no full auto, no bursts, in fact the only problems i've had was with a weak recoil spring, but the factory sent me replacements and i havent had any trouble since then. the m9 has gone 'bang' every time, and i've put nearly 2000 rounds through it.

someone asked a simple question. you had to give a bitter biased answer. way to go!

[Jimmy Mac]

I never said I did not like these pistols. I would buy another one today if they would put a firing pin lock in its design.

My posts are based on FACT and personal experience with these pistols and not on feelings.

[spacemanspiff]

what a coincidence! my posts are also based on fact and personal experience!

[Handy]

I don't know much about these guns except from reading this post and the link to Twoblink's explanation.

It strikes me that the concern seem to be: What happens if the hook on the striker breaks off? Since the striker spring is in full compresion and there is no seperate part blocking the striker, it will definitely fire. (I'm assuming some commonality between the Glock and Steyr strikers.)

This is not unusual. A standard 1911 could also fire if the sear disintegrated. However, if the sear just breaks the tip off, the hammer falls to half cock (most likely scenerio). The M9 doesn't have such an equivalent.

As I said, this weapon's operation is new to me, so if I'm misunderstanding how the striker looks or works, please let me know. But it does seem unusually likely to AD with only the one part failing-a part that has constant spring pressure against it. This is really weird for a newly designed gun. Can someone rationally comment on this?

[mons-meg]

On 8-21-2002, Jimmy Mac wrote:

This is my last post on this subject.

But here we are talking about this again. This topic reminds me of the numerous .40 Glock Kb threads, except there is even less evidence (anecdotal, at that) that the Steyrs are unsafe by design.

I personally think Twoblink put this to bed with his well reasoned and researched post. Let's move on.

Jay

[Jimmy Mac]

Twoblink has stated his opinion that is all. His well reserched and reasoned post is no more researched or reasoned than mine If you have one of these pistols you can see for yourself that it is a SA without a firing pin lock. You can see for yourself what could happen if the sear failed.

On a 1911 the safety blocks both the sear and the hammer.

The Glock is not fully cocked and it has a firing pin safety.

I only posted this to possibly keep someone from getting hurt. If you do not belive me that is fine but those do not own them and those that have no idea how this pistol works should not try to assume they know more about it than someone that has repaired several of them because the company would not.

[Coronach]

Ya know...I saw this thread and I knew...not suspected, not bet, not thought it likely...I knew that one of the Mac wondertwins was gonna be poster #2 on the thread and the first statement would be that the gun is unsafe.

Ah...to be affirmed. I have warm fuzzies all over.

Mike

[mons-meg]

JImmy, I do have an M40, and like the vast majority of Steyr owners have not experienced any problems. As for the pistol being a "dangerous" SA, I think you are the only person who claims this;

From the original Sight review: (www.sightm1911.com)

The Steyr trigger is true double-action since the trigger continues to cock the striker throughout the stroke until it is released. The Steyr trigger does not feel like a typical double-action trigger at all. It has a short stroke action (aprox. 1/8") with a very short reset, for very accurate rapid fire.

Like the Glock, the Steyr striker mechanism is under partial tension (partially cocked) when the trigger is fully forward. After the trigger is pulled, the striker is fully at rest until the trigger is reset. The three passive safeties keep the Steyr pistol safe to operate.

As for one opinion being better than another, I think that an opinion backed up by research, or experience, or both beats an opinion that is based on an isolated incident. Just my opinion, of course.

[tetchaje]

Despite scores of people attesting to the FACT that Steyr isn't the evil manufacturer trying to take over the world with an unsafe pistol design (with the Mac WonderTwins out to save the day ), Jimmy still is religiously hawking over this post to try and convince the world that HE has SEEN THE LIGHT!

Twoblink's post puts to rest any of your bantering, Jimmy, give it up.

[Jimmy Mac]

The pistol is a true single action. The striker IS FULLY COCKED to the rear at all times if a round is in the chamber.

That is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

If you have one of these guns LOOK AT IT.

Even twoblink knows it is a SA.

[Handy]

Anybody not too busy fighting to answer my question?

[Jimmy Mac]

If the tab on the striker breaks the gun WILL fire.

Unlike other modern SA guns there is nothing to stop it from going forward if the tab breaks or the sear fails or the slide somehow comes lose from the frame.

This tab breaking is not likely to happen but it is not impossible.

A firing pin lock would make this pistol safe.

[Onslaught]

Are you sure we're talking about the right pistol? I seem to remember this EXACT same conversation about the Vector

[Handy]

Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me, too. But I kind of wanted to hear it from someone less...contraversial. Thanks, though.

Can anyone say why this is incorrect? (Independant observer, don't shoot the messenger.)

[Jimmy Mac]

Why is it that when someone tells the truth on this board they are "contraversial"?

mons-meg

To those who take twoblinks word as gospell he also can see it as a SA auto. That must mean we both are wrong and his opinion can not mean any more than mine.

His version of the safety features of this pistol is much more correct than anyone else here. His opinion that they are safe as long as these features work is correct.

What he fails to understand is that sometimes these internal safetys are not always correctly fitted at the factory.

Some can be dangerous. The design itsself on paper is a good one but in the real world it is not always so.

[Handy]

It looked to me that all of Twoblinks vector and parts analysis dealt with the possibility of impact AD's. That doesn't have much to do with parts breaking. Why is everyone sighting Twoblink? Again, what am I missing.

[Jimmy Mac]

Handy

The only way you can understand this is for you to look at one of these yourself. Field strip it and make up your own mind.


If you understand gun design you will see the possible problem.

[mons-meg]

Why don't we let Twoblink comment for himself, if he isn't too disgusted to even read this thread.


And, to respond to the ORIGINAL question: AFAIK, Dynamit-Nobel still has not made the decision to service/import the Steyr line of pistols. Hopefully, this will be resolved within the next few months.

[tetchaje]

The action of the M-Series pistols is very similar to the action on Glock pistols. It is so close that Steyr calls it the "Reset-Action System" -- sounds like Glocks "Safe-Action System".

FWIW, the Steyr website says that the gun is "double action". I am assuming that this means that the trigger action pulls the firing pin through the rest of its stroke to complete the cycle, just like the Glock. I am not at home, but I will pull out my Steyr M tonight to have a closer look at the system.

Basically, though, any time anybody says anything about the Steyr, Jimmy Mac and MacMan10 are right there hovering like vultures with their "FACTS" (to use Ol' Jimmy's notation... ) about how the design is unsafe and everybody who picks the pistol up is going to die.

The SightM review of the pistol also states that the pistol is DAO.

The Steyr trigger is true double-action since the trigger continues to cock the striker throughout the stroke until it is released. The Steyr trigger does not feel like a typical double-action trigger at all. It has a short stroke action (aprox. 1/8") with a very short reset, for very accurate rapid fire.