My personal National Match Course results - got questions, need comments

[yankytrash]

Hey all. I've been practicing to attend a long range rifle competition. I downloaded the specs for the reduced-size targets at 100yds, so my longest range is a mock-600yd shot.

Since I'm interested more in the service rifle class, I'm practicing with my preban SP1 w/ new Colt HBAR 1/7 upper. Sights are stock.

The ammo I'm currently using is questionable as I've had it a long time, but it seems to suffice for 1-2 moa on a fairly regular basis. It's Korean NATO surplus 55gr. I've got about 6000rds left of the stuff before I buy some 62gr.

For ease of shooting by myself, I'm using the guidelines for the National Match Course. That's:
[list=1][*]10@200yds, standing slow fire, 1 mag change, 12min[*]10@200yds, sitting rapid fire, 1 mag change, 1min[*]10@300yds, prone or standing rapid fire, 1 mag change, 70sec[*]20@600yds, prone slow fire, 3 mag changes, 22min[/list=1]

My results thus far are a weak 375-390 for all 50 shots. What I find interesting is that my biggest downfall is what would seem to be the easiest shot - prone. I think I'm inadvertantly canting the rifle, but I'm having a hard time fixing that problem under the pressure of a clock and not having a sighter.

If I walked onto a long range course, would my score of 375 be laughable? Reason I ask is because I haven't seen a lot of improvement in this past 6 or 8 week period. I could, perhaps, raise my score another 50 or so in a year's time, but that's only a wild guess. What do other new shooters score?

Next question - in a real match, would I be using my own ammo, or is that supplied? What does it cost?

Next question - what colors are the targets and backdrops? My only information is the white and black rings, but nothing about the backdrop. I use traffic orange plywood behind my targets only because of my occasional use of hard-to-see Wal-Mart targets.

Next question - Is the National Match course what I should be practicing, or is there a more common course I should use instead?

Last question and I'll let you go for now - how much of a rude awakening is it going to be to go from a reduced target at 100yds to a real 600yd target. What's your guess on my score drop - 150 or so?!

Thanks for reading.

[El Rojo]

I personally thought shooting the 200 yard reduced was more difficult than shooting the real thing. I have a question about your mag changes though.

1. The 200 yard standing should be slow fire. Zero mag changes. You load each round individually.

2. The 200 yard rapid sitting has one mag change. IIRC they ask you to shoot 2 or 8 rounds and then do the mag change and shoot the other 2 or 8.

3. 300 yard rapid prone is the same as the 200 yard rapid sitting. 2 in the first mag, 8 in the second.

4. 600 yard slow prone is like 200 slow standing. Individual load, no mag changes.

When I was doing my own 600 yard shoots by myself at a range I made on my own, it was not near as fun to shoot the 600 yard slow fire with out a spotter. However, shooting the other three stages was great practice. The stage that needed the most practice was the standing. From what I understand, just having a shooting coat will increase your scores by about 50 points.

I use an M1A since they are not evil assault weapons here in the PRK (at least not after you put on a muzzle break). I would suspect you are going to want as heavy as a bullet as possible (for your twist rate that is, the mousegun experts will help you with this) at 600 yards. I did ok with some hot 147s I loaded for the .308, but I would imagine as soon as the wind kicks up at 600 yards, that .22 bullet is going to be moving a bit more.

I personally loved shooting national match. I wish I had more time and money to do it more often. I think it is a great thing to shoot and practice and I encourage you to stay with it. I started off right around your range. I finally broke the 400 mark the last time I went out. At the beginning level you are at, I wouldn't worry about competing with the other guys who have more money and time invested than you do at this time. Just work on your form and shooting technique and buy a coat and whatever else you need and build yourself up. National Match is highly addictive.

One last suggestion, get a cheap spotting scope and you should be able to take your time and adjust at 100 yards no problem. With a 20X scope, you should easily be able to adjust your fire at 100 yards. Good luck.

PS This is my 900th post!!! 1000 here I come.

[C.R.Sam]

Good coat and footwear make a substantial difference. Just stay within whatever rules apply at the match.

Sam

[yankytrash]

Oookay, I give up - where does someone find one of these shooting coats? Somethin tells me Wal-Mart and S&K are out of stock.

[Steve Smith]

Disclaimer:
I'm slowly nearing Expert class, but I'm a long way from being good as this is the end of my rookie year shooting Highpower. Take what you want from what I say, and leave what you don't like or don't believe. I do have a very steep learning curve, so what I've learned is more than what I can show with the rifle at this point .


You're confusing two types of HP shooting. There is DCM Rifle, and there's NRA Highpower Service Rifle. Both use the same type of rifles, ammo, and even targets, but there are small differences in a few things. Most HP shooters shoot both types, depending on what's being shot that weekend.

The biggest difference:
In DCM matches, there are NO sighters. You show up to the match with your elevation and windage zeros written down or in your head. Each shot counts. In NRA HP, you have two sighter shots per position. Technically, you get your zeros in these two shots based upon what you already know as being close. However, the good guys already know the nuances of precisely where they'll be shooting in each position (using their databook as a guide) so the sighters are used to determine conditions. Well, I'm getting away from your questions a bit.

The thing about the ammo is that when shooting DCM in the old days, you were issued ammo...that rule has changed. You'll bring your own ammo to any DCM or NRA match now.

El Rojo straightened you up well, the slow fire stages are single loaded, and rapids are 2 rds in the first mag, and 8 in the second. Rapids are STANDING TO POSITION. ie, You get your natural point of aim (NPOA), mark the ground, get up, and when the targets appear, you line up wehre your marks are, fire two, change mags, fire eight, and you're done, all in the 60 or 70 seconds (sitting or prone).

Without any type of target marking, then yes, the 200 reduced course matches are the toughest. You can't see where you're hitting, so you might drill the hell out of an 8 ring and not even know until you walk up (yuck!) A really good spotting scope helps so much, you won't believe it. I can see most if not all .223's at 200 yards with my Kowa 661. The only trouble is if I really get stable and start punching a tiny group...I can't see the individual holes, so I get paranoid and think "Where did that go? It felt great!" At lest on full course (called XC or Across the Course" matches, you get your target marked for you, and you can adjsut...of course, there's wind to deal with then. I've seen days here in Colorado where no one shot over a 460 and there were probably 8 High Masters there...inconsistent wind sucks.

We use a black circle, with a white card stock outer section, on a white backer. It gives the best sight picture. That orange will distract your eye.

Do not expect much from the 55 gr FMJ. It's apparently the scourge of HP shooters everywhere. For XC, you'll want to try the Sierra Match King 69, 77, and 80's in your rifle. If your not in a very windy area,you can get by with the 69's, but I've switched to 77's for short range stuff to buck wind a little better. There's not much difference in price. The AMU just switched to 77's for shortline stuff. Probably 90% of HP shooters use the SMK 80's for 600 yard ammo. Load it to near (not touching without careful load work) the lands. The 80 won't fit into the case properly if you try to use it for mag length...hence the 77 grainer for shortline.


Does your rifle have a free float tube? If not, you'll see all kinds of weird stuff at 600 yards. You'll put so much sling pressure on the rifle that your barrel will bend if you don't have a tube...it's a must have. The same movement will happen in all slinged positions. BTW, what sling are you using? Many beginners use the web sling because it's cheap, and some guys keep using them their entire careers. Others use the leather "1907" style sling. I got mine from Leslie Tam in Hawaii. He's great to work with, and builds an awesome sling for a decent price.

Canting won't kill you if it's the same every time. You'll just have to calculate it into your elev/wind measurements.

No one laughs at anyone shooting HP. They're EXTREMELY happy that you're there, and will help you if you have questions.

You might drop a few points shooting your first 600 yard match, but I doubt that it'll be much. Remember, the targets are the same MOA value all the way out. The only difference is wind. Looking that far to your target is a bit humbling the first time, but after a while, it's like coming home to mom and dad.

A good coat is fine, but you are the basis for the position. Remember, Smallbore guys going to HP kick major booty on offhand, and their coats are really loose! To depend on the coat is to lie to yourself. I broke my first 400 using a USMC issue shooting coat...the one with the buttons and no support at all. Many XC shooters just use tennis shoes...including David Tubb.

Look at coats at www.creedmoresports.com and scopes at www.jarheadtop.com . Top doesn't show the Kowa 661's on his site, but he sells 'em.

Get more HP info at www.shooterstalk.com Highpower forum, and www.ar15.com Competition forum. I'm Frontsight! at each location.

Please, please, please, go to a clinic before your first real match...you'll learn a lot so you won't hold up the guys at a real match. We are all wanting to get out of the hot sun as soon as possible, after all.

[Steve Smith]

Oh, one thing...during the summer (true HP season) make sure you drink a lot of water BEFORE the day of the match, and during the match. 100 + degree heat, with a sweatshirt or two, and a heavy shooting coat will make you call for your mommy like a little schoolgirl. One dude DIED this year on the line.

[yankytrash]

I'm humbled.

Thanks Steve. The ammo advice especially. I'll look into some 77gr bullets and see what I can come up with.

Are free float tubes legal in the Service Rifle classes? It was my understanding that everything, right down to the sling, had to be the same or equivalent as US military issue.

For that very reason, I'm trying not to rely on my sling for follow-ups. It's unknown black cloth. It's been on the gun since the beginning of time, and I have no idea if it's military spec. Too bad too, it has a nice stretch that pulls the stock into my shoulder so hard it almost hurts. As you pointed out though, that may not be a good thing.

One other thing - my barrel isn't a match barrel. Is that a serious error? Again, I thought that would put it out of the Service Rifle class.

[Steve Smith]

I'm back... hey, I love this stuff...so far, in my first year shooting HP, I've gotten three guys to try it, and two have started shooting matches regularly.

Hey, your AR is an A2 model, right?

About the tube. The DCM and NRA Service Rifles rules specifically state that the rifle must APPEAR as issued. The free float tube was adopted into the rules several years ago, just before the AR began to rule supreme. The "DCM legal" float tube is different than most tubes you see, though, as it's unseen from the outside, so you still have the ridged handguards just like it was issued. Match barrels are allowed on all Service Rifles, and they even allow stainless...mainly because there are very few match quality non-stainless barrels out there. I hope you don't get the idea that HP is an equipment game...Its far from that. Any good "DCM legal" rifle, ARs especially, can win every match in the country, and there are maybe 3 to 5 x's difference between all the rifles on the line at a given match. The difference, as has always been with HP, is in the shooter. Men shoot this for their entire lives and never get bored...that can't be said for an equipment game.

The slings that are used for Service Rifle are either true USGI issue, or modeled after them quite closely and under a strict set of rules. Your sling does not conform to the rules. Two sling styles are allowed, the M1 Garand web sling, or the 1907 leather sling. The sling does not have to match the time period of the rifle (both M1 Garand and 1907 slings may be used on AR's)You may purchase a USGI web sling (M1 Garand style) from Fred's out of Shotgun News for about $4, or buy a leather sling for $45 to $65. Many High Masters like the web slings because you can get it set up before your prep period begins, and then "clip in" to the rifle. To each his own.

Stretch is considered a bad thing, as it'll give inconsistent results. Leather will eventually stretch, but a good sling will stretch very little. A tight sling is incredibly important. The sling carries the weight of the rifle. Once you're shown how to do it right, you'll wonder why people buy bipods. You can literally fall asleep behind the rifle, and the sights won't move with proper sling use. The sling should always be so tight that you must push the rifle forward to get it into your shoulder. In prone, it shouldn't be painful, but for sitting, there may be some pain in the position. "It only lasts 60 seconds, so suck it up"

You'll be fine with your stock barrel for a year or so. Once you're past that, then you can thing about upgrading. Don't expect your barrel to last a tremendous about of time...4K rounds is about average before perfiormance begins to drop. That's about two good seasons, maybe three. One guy you should talk to about getting a float tube and a barrel is John Holliger. He is a High Master shooter, and a rifle builder. He has a reputation that can't be beaten, and I have an upper built by him. The thing friggin' sings. His prices are astonishingly reasonable. Check out his website and call him if you have questions. Tell him Steve Smith from Colorado sent you. http://members.nbci.com/servicerifle/ Once you need a sling, speak to Les Tam at [email protected] and make sure you don't get a sling shorter than 54" as it can be too short for the AR. 54" ought to be good for just about anyone, but Les urges you to not get a bigger one, because the "ends of the cow don't have the best leather."

On the bullets, the cheapest way to get them is via the Sierra drop ship program. You'll have to get in on a group buy at a local HP club, but it's way worth it. Otherwise, there's always Midway. Get a C&R FFL license for $30 and you'll get dealer pricing though them. That'll help with the bullet buying. I hope you reload...there's no affordable way to compete seriously if you don't. Get brass from www.rvow.com. Sized, primer pocket crimps removed, trimmed, and polished, $50 per 1K, or a slight deal on 3500 cases at once. That's what I did. All you have to do is deburr and chamfer the necks and load 'em up for shortline stuff, or go all out for the 600 yard stuff...either way, its a cheap way to get good brass.

[Steve Smith]

http://alccrl.org/whiteoak/whiteoak.htm