Armed Mexican Troops crossing the boarder and shooting at the US Border Patrol?

[George Hill]

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020513-27549872.htm

Mexican soldiers in border crossings
By Steve Miller
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Heavily armed Mexican soldiers and police are crossing the U.S. border repeatedly, provoking charges from Capitol Hill that they are providing cover for drug smugglers and illegal immigrants.
Last year, there were 23 incursions documented by the U.S. Border Patrol, prompting Rep. Tom Tancredo to contact Mexican President Vicente Fox last week, asking for an end to these incidents.
The Mexican government denies Mr. Tancredo's accusation and maintains that Mexican military forces are working the same area as U.S. Border Patrol agents in fighting the illegal transport of drugs and people into this country.
"It's the other way around from what [Mr. Tancredo] says," said a Mexican government official, who asked not to be identified. "The troops are fighting against drugs. And sometimes they get lost in those areas — there is no clear marking for the border."
Mr. Tancredo, Colorado Republican, visited the Arizona-Mexico border area in late April and learned that U.S. Border Patrol agents and park rangers were concerned about the activities of Mexican military officers, particularly along a 60-mile stretch of desert in Coronado National Forest.
"They are reporting that they see people coming through with guns. The concern is that there are people coming through with arms, M-16s, protecting drug carriers," said Mr. Tancredo, who has proposed using National Guard troops at border areas.
He added: "And they are not lost."
A drug-enforcement officer who oversees a policing project along the Arizona border said that such occurrences are "fairly common."
"Some of it is also inadvertent crossing," said Rocky Stone, special projects coordinator for the Arizona High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area.
"But there are backpackers with big loads coming this way, and from time to time we hear about things happening," he said.
A Border Patrol agent from the area said the incursions "are nothing new. Sometimes they are innocent, other times they are very tense."
Mr. Tancredo — who has been accused by some Hispanic leaders of being "anti-immigrant" — last week sent a letter to Mr. Fox, challenging him to explain the reported border incidents.
"Having just toured several sections of the border in question, it is clear that there is no chance whatsoever that the army units were simply lost, or unaware that they had crossed the border," Mr. Tancredo wrote in the letter.
The Mexican government has in the past said that military and police agents, like many illegal migrants trying to cross the vast border area, have become lost during patrols.
The letter in response to Mr. Tancredo from Mexico's ambassador to the United States, Juan Jose Bremer, said that "the excellent level of political dialogue that currently exists between the governments of Mexico and the United States has allowed every case of supposed unnoticed or accidental crossings of Mexican or U.S. personnel into the territory of the other country to fully identify the circumstances."
"These are dealt with on a local level," said a Mexican government official, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "Every time we have an authority crossing to the other side, both governments exchange views of what happened."
There have been several Mexican military and police incursions in the past two years that have angered Mr. Tancredo. In March, four Mexican soldiers carrying submachine guns and automatic rifles were detained when they ventured into the United States and encountered a Border Patrol agent. In October 2000, 10 similarly armed Mexican soldiers were reported to have fired on a Border Patrol air unit after taking a position on the U.S. side near Copper Canyon in California.
In March 2000, Border Patrol agents in El Paso, Texas, said that two Mexican army Humvees, reported by the Mexican government to be on an anti-drug mission, crossed the U.S. border. Two shots were fired from one of the Mexican vehicles, agents reported, but no one was hit. One vehicle retreated into Mexico, but the nine soldiers riding in the second vehicle were detained temporarily before being returned to their country.
"These situations can be very difficult," said Keith Weeks, a patrol agent and vice president of Local 1613 of the National Border Patrol Council in California. "We are outgunned in these instances. They have automatic rifles, and we have handguns." He said that military assistance for drug running in Mexico is "a definite possibility."
The area Mr. Tancredo examined on his recent visit is filled with encampments where illegal immigrants stay during their journey north. Several towns near the border on the U.S. side have street signs exclusively in Spanish, and border lines are absent in some areas.
But travelers in the area are able to see markers designating U.S. territory in many places, especially in Coronado National Forest.
For several years, both sides have advocated better marking of the 2,000-mile Southwest border, but with no result. In some areas, trampled fences are all that remain of the former border marking, while some areas in New Mexico and Texas have 6-foot-tall monuments as signposts.
But Johnny Williams, who heads field operations for the Immigration and Naturalization Service, said that incursions along the border are inevitable given the tense situation. Some degree of corruption on both sides may be unavoidable.
"Vicente Fox has done a good job in rooting out corruption," Mr. Williams said. "I would not discount the fact that with thousands of officers on both sides, there may be someone in uniform doing something wrong."

Okay, that does it. While I disagree against closing the boarder - this pushes my limits. Why are we not dropping the 101st into the area? Doesn't this constitute an act of war?
I know that the this isnt Mexican Governmental orders - these guys are privateers. Regardless or especially because of that fact, they MUST be stopped. They need to have MK19's raining fire on them. Shooting at our guys? Maybe I should take my next job as a Border Patrol agent!

[Ledbetter]

So far from God, so close to Mexico.

Incredibly, there is no difference between the Dems and the Repubs on this. They both favor the illegal Mexicans over the US citizens because they make better sheep.

Am I wrong?

Ledbetter

[spacemanspiff]

question...why not close the border? why keep on diluting this countrys soul with immigrants who provide no use to society? this isnt a racist comment, but a humanitarian one. conditions in this country for all the illegal immigrants who work low paying jobs, live in horrible conditions, and turn to crime in order to survive shouldnt be our problem to deal with.
so what if mexico is overpopulated and there are no jobs, and their lives are in danger? that isnt anyone in this countrys problem to deal with.

shut down the border to ALL immigrants, legal/illegal. solve the problems here with our own people of poverty, hunger, drugs, crime, then let productive immigrants move into our society. sure it will never happen, but i like ranting every once in a while.

[ahenry]

Okay, that does it. While I disagree against closing the boarder - this pushes my limits.

Get outa my head! I really hope that Bush is holding to the old Godfather maxim to “keep your friends close, and your enemies closer”. Otherwise Fox is going to continue to push until something “really bad” happens. Of course there comes a limit to the damage you can allow your closely held enemy to do....

[Art Eatman]

Seems to me mostly a (probably vain) notion to court the Latino vote, this year and more importantly, in 2004.

Any thime we make any sort of rational effort to deal with illegal immigrants--regardless of origin--the mantra of "racism" erupts from the Latin political organizations such as LULAC or La Raza Unida.

You should pardon my cynicism, of course.

, Art

[George Hill]

I understand the political price to pay with immigration issues.
But this isn't immigration.
Our troops could monitor and observe the traffic. Report tresspassers to the Boarder Patrol and what not, but generally just keep quiet.
Until they oberserve anyone or any group with weapons.
Then they attack.

[Selfdfenz]

Armed Mexican troops coming into the US.
How typical.
And where is W on this?

Saw today where there is a tractor trailor load containing 100 drums of cyanide hijacked by armed men just north of Mexico City in the last 24hours. Where it is now is a mystery. DPS and New Mexico police on high alert.
Anyone care to guess what wonders our "best partners against terrorism (Mexico)" will be sending us next. Heck how much worse can it get.

And where is W on all this. I hate to say it but it looks like he is willing for many Americans to be put at risk (or worse) before he takes decisive action.
Dissappointing performance from a guy I had high hopes for.
S-

[Brass Rat]

I KNEW we should have bought the Berlin Wall when it was going cheap!

Until some form of morality can be reinstilled in DC (yeah, right!), both sides of the aisle will covertly welcome their "new constituents".

[George Hill]

"This has been going on a couple of years now."

I was going to say something like "Your Kidding!" but I know your right.
It's the growing latino vote isn't it? That Clinton apologist was on Fxnews last night and mentioned something to that effect. Latino's should be just as mad as I am. They are contributing to the anti-immigration opinion by ignoring this issue, sueing the US government... and just acting as if they have every right to walk on over. Next thing is they are going to demand reperations because they sold us the country too cheap!

AND I LIKE Latinos!
I came --><-- this close to marring one!

[40ozflatfoot]

Saw today where there is a tractor trailor load containing 100 drums of cyanide hijacked by armed men just north of Mexico City in the last 24hours.

Where did you see this? Is it on the web?

I think Larry Pratt has the right idea, and this is an ideal application of his suggestion. Get the Arizona, New Mexico, Texas militias organized, and get them into operating bases along the borders. Offer prizes.

[Tropical Z]

Rep.Tancredo is 100% right on this immigration issue and yet is constantly attacked by all sides.The U.S. should have at least a division stationed along the Mexican border with strict orders to do whatever it takes to keep out illegals.

[Selfdfenz]

I saw it on the Fox News Internet site yesterday and on the Dallas channel5 website too. It was a news line tab on the home page of MSN yesterday.
It was on the news here in Big D yesterday.
Haven't heard any news today.

S-

[Steel]

"Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, your mutants, your criminals, your free-loaders, your non-assimilating invaders..."

Close the border. We have enough, Thanks.

[nsf003]

Airstrike their asses!! It'll be good training for real conflict. I second closing the border. I can't imagine what it's like for the ranchers in Texas. Anyone a rancher here?


nsf003

[PvtPyle]

Maybe the locals should shoot back. Maybe the locals should find where they usually come across and wait for them.

There is no training like live fire training.

[John/az2]

I came --><-- this close to marring one!

George,

Are you sure you like Latinos? If I were a Latino and you almost marred me, I'd be rather concerned!

[Waterdog]

Mexican soldiers are one thing, illegal aliens is another, and drug smugglers is another.

Illegals are being hired, sounds like the businesses that are hiring should be reprimanded.

Drug smugglers should be imprisoned in a facility along the border.

Mexican soldiers should be detained and or nuetralized depending on what they are doing.

The illegals are here for the work, if you want to stop the mass of peoples from the south coming here, you all need to boycott the busineses that hire them, PERIOD!

The scum in DC, sure as hell aint going to stop them.

Waterdog

[Jamie Young]

Maybe the locals should shoot back.

I consider them a NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT. Who knows what they are smuggling, nukes, bio weapons????

Close the border.

[40ozflatfoot]

I saw it on the Fox News Internet site yesterday and...

It finally made it to the web sites I go to for news; not a whisper in the electronic media out here. Thanks for the heads up.

Maybe the locals should shoot back.

From unconfirmed reports I saw some months back, they did just exactly that. A couple of them got into trouble with LE, and I never heard what came of it.

The illegals are here for the work, if you want to stop the mass of peoples from the south coming here, you all need to boycott the busineses that hire them, PERIOD!

Good idea, but how are you going to determine that the fruits and veggies you buy at the store came from those employers? Not everybody can grow his own.

Like I said before, this is a job for the militia.

[Waterdog]

Migratory farm workers, is no longer the majority of immigrants from the south.

The majority of hotels/motels throughout the west and south west hire immigrants.

Most fast food, places use immigrants.

Construction, at least in AZ, is about 50%
immigrant.

Here lies the problem, people want to bitch about the situation, but just like the gun issues, most are just lip service.

Go to Vegas, and see if you can find a casino that DOES NOT hire immigrants.

This topic is brought up every week, and the same comments are made, yet, very few will take the steps neccessary to solve the problem.

Boycotting these businesses would be the most effective way to attack the problem.

Just like everything else in our society, hit them in the wallet, and watch what happens.

IMHO

Waterdog

[Gholam]

Aw come on, you should just give them back Texas and California and all the incidents will cease...

[40ozflatfoot]

California yes, Texas NEVER!

[chaim]

Aw come on, you should just give them back Texas and California and all the incidents will cease...

yasher koach

[nemesis]

nsf003 says "is anyone a rancher here" and the answer is "no" but I can tell you some ranch happenings along the Texas border.

Some good friends have a ranch up in Starr County and I hunt there frequently. The deer, hog and javelina hunting is good but the area is on a major thoroughfare for illegals and drugs.

Their fences are cut regularly as vans full of illegals quickly pull up, cut the fence and then sprint out of sight. They have actually seen pack trains of men carrying odd shaped backpacks who come out of the brush, cross the road and continue off on the other side.

The illegals have a trail out to Agua Dulce (Sweet Water) where my friends have a stock tank for the cattle and the wildlife. Thats where they water up before heading north.

One night, I shot a deer exactly at sunset but it took off into the brush. Not unusual but I wouldn't expect it to go far. I left my rifle in my truck and started tracking into the brush with only my flashlight. I couldn't find the deer so I called ranch headquarters on my cel phone and asked if they could send out their hired hand to help me as I didn't want to "waste" the deer by not finding it.

As it turned out, I found the deer and had it dragged out before any help arrived. When I returned to the ranch house and related my story, my friends went deathly white. They said "you went out THERE in the dark"? I told them I had to to find the deer and they said I was crazy to be in that area in the dark due to the armed coyotes leading the illegals and the armed drug gangs. I told them I was carrying a .454 Super Redhawk and wasn't going to let a bunch of drogaderos keep me from my deer and I meant it.

It may sound like bravado but I refuse to be intimidated by a bunch of Mexican bandidos in my own country.

[Art Eatman]

My ranch isn't on the border, but my home is. Well, about eight miles from the Rio Grande.

Downstream below Del Rio, the drug smugglers have M16s and night-vision gear. In a few places, they have bought out riverside ranches, offering about twice the actual sales value. You have a choice about selling: "Oro o plombo." Gold or lead.

Drugs are brought over at night, and trucks move across ranches whether the ranchers approve or not. No law-enforcement entity can or will provide assistance. Local law can't because of a lack of manpower; the feds don't care. What's a rancher gonna do when he's facing a dozen M16s? Call Hillary?

In my area, marijuana is brought over by burro train from Santa Elena, Mexico, and hauled up north from the river some 15 to 30 miles. The train, the money-man and the buyers meet; the deal is done, and away they all go in their separate directions. Narcs don't work off-pavement.

Commonly, the narcs or INS at the check station north of Presidio, Texas on US 67 will catch a Mexican National in a 15- to 20-year old pickup with 50 or so pounds of marijuana. They haul him off to Marfa to book him, and a following vehicle gets on its radio to tell the Big Hauler that the coast is now clear for that Winnebago (or whatever) with some 3,000 pounds. Been that way for 30 years that I know of, and the feds ain't figured it out, yet.

Southern Arizona is lined with coyote highways across country, readily identified by the (really!) tons of trash tossed by illegals. They will cut poly-pipe to get a drink of water, which often winds up with dead cattle because a tank ran empty and a trough no longer was refilled...

And if any individual takes rational action, the Mexican Government screams, the newsies go berserk, and the guy who's merely defending his property is castigated at all levels of our government.

And don't ever believe anybody inside the Beltway gives a rat's patootie.

Art