Saw a Glock 21 kB! today

[Chipperman]

Sorry, no photos. Unfortunately nobody had a camera with them.

Anyway, it was a Glock 21. He was shooting his own reloads, with cast lead bullets. I do not know the load specs. He said he had cleaned the gun very well the other day, and this happened on about the 8th round through the gun since the cleaning.
He engaged one target and fired, moved to engage the next target and fired. The explosion occurred, and he droppped the gun. It was not a double-tap or slam fire.

The frame was split on both sides, protruding laterally along the slide in two large triangular fragments. The base of the fragments was along the slide, and the apex went down the grip and stopped under the Hogue grip. The magazine was blown out of the magwell, and came apart. It was a drop-free mag, the body was intact, but the lips were damaged. The mag baseplate was broken. Both slide and barrel appeared intact, but I was not able to remove the slide from the frame. The slide was locked about 1.5 cm out of battery. The case was still visible in the chamber, with the bottom ruptured out over the ramp. A light shone down the barrel and out the ruptured case confirmed that there was no obstruction of the barrel. I don't know if the gun fired out of battery, or if the case ruptured, and then the slide stuck back partially on recoil. The trigger was completely gone.

The shooted recieved a superficial longitudinal 3 cm cut on the web between the thumb and trigger finger. No burns were visible, but the hand was obviously very sore and red. Very minor injuries, considering how the gun looked. In my opinion, the Hogue grip helped a lot in minimizing the injury.

[dsk]

You should net shoot lead bullets in a Glock. The chamber edge whtere the rifling begins has a very sharp lip that shaves lead off the bullet. It is nearly impossible to clean a leaded Glock barrel well enough to remove all the fouling. Eventually you end up with reduced headspace and increased chance of a kB.

[Chipperman]

I agree with you, and therefore do not shoot lead through any of my polygonal barrel guns (better safe than sorry). There are many, however, that still feel lead is fine.
I am not sure that the lead had anything to do with the kB in this instance.

[444]

Just for the heck of it; what powder was he using ?

[James K]

FWIW, I doubt it was an out of battery discharge. Those usually result in the case being ejected. I suspect the case let go at the feed ramp and gas expanding downward split the frame and tore up the magazine, the normal result of that type of accident. I also doubt that high pressure from barrel leading alone would cause the problem in a chamber that properly supports the case, especially with lead bullets. (I have fired a .45 1911 with GI ammo, with the barrel completely blocked so the bullet could not move, and the case held. The slide, BTW, never moved.)

There can be a number of causes, sometimes in combination, like an overpolished feed ramp and overworked cases. Glock does recommend using only jacketed bullets and reportedly there have been problems with leading. I believe the owner should return the pistol and what is left of the ammo to Glock for a determination of the cause of failure, if possible. In any event, I would call them and see what they say.

Jim

[Chipperman]

How sympathetic will they be?
He broke two rules:
1. Shoot only factory ammo
2. Don't shoot lead

444, I don't know what the powder was.

[444]

Since this was a reload, I would like to establish whether or not he double charged the case. I am not sure if this is likely since the case didn't eject, but maybe the slide velocity was such that it cycled before the case could be ejected or maybe the explosion caused the case to stick ? Knowing what powder he was using would establish whether this was even possible with the case volume. If he was using a fast burning powder, it would be easy to double charge a case. If he was using a very slow burning powder, the case would overflow with a double charge.

[C.R.Sam]

This one definately rates a knowledgeable autopsy.

Sam

[6946]

ouch!!!!!!!

[jar]

There are way too many variables to guess as to the cause. It sure would be good to get some expert opinions on what happened.

One thing that bothers me is the number of people that are switching to 40S&W and then deciding to reload to save money. The 40S&W is one of the few calibers where the margin for error is so small that the number of Kb!'s has to go up.

When a knowledgeable reloader loads for competition, they are almost always loading down as far as they can and still meet minimum standards. That's not true of the new to handloading and doing it to save money, or what is worse, to wildcat a cartridge. And the results are often very exciting. It's just a matter of time before someone is killed or seriously hurt.

[Master Blaster]

Just out of curiosity Could some one post where they have seen from GLOCK that lead bullets are a No-No?

Last night I read my entire glock manual again (g-26 but the same manual for all models) there is no mention at all of shooting lead bullets or not anywhere in the manual, nor does the manual say anything about shooting jacketed rounds.

What the manual does say is only shoot factory ammunition due to the fact that reloaders may not follow Saami specification for ammunition pressure.

So If I buy my 9mm lead from Carrol, who manufactures factory new lead bulleted ammunition using new cases to saami specs it would be ok to use lead base upon what the manual says.

My guess is that cases may have been times, the case may have been overcharged or bullet setback may have occured.

Every gun manual I have says ONLY shoot Factory ammunition, No reloads, That would include reloads with jacketed ammo.
I seem to recall that a number of glocks have exploded using brand name factory ammo.

[joe saxon]

I was under the impression that the Glock 21 is a .45 acp pistol. I know for certain that mine is in reading Master Blasters comments he states that caliber of the weapon in question as a .40. was this gun re-chambered to a .40?

[Master Blaster]

You are correct forgive my lack of glock model number knowledge
21 is .45 ACP.

From the GLOCK website on Safety:

) Before firing your weapon, you should routinely make sure that your firearm is in good working order and that the barrel is clear of dirt and obstructions!

Any obstruction that prevents the bullet from moving easily down the barrel can cause pressure to build up in the weapon. A small bit of mud, gun grease, excess lubricating oil or rust can cause pressure to build up to the point where the barrel bulges or bursts upon firing, resulting in a damaged gun and serious bodily injury to the shooter or those around him.

8) Only use ammunition recommended by the firearm manufacturer, and always be certain that the ammunition matches the caliber of your gun!

Most modern firearms have their caliber designation stamped into the barrel (for example, "9x19" or ".45 Auto") Your box of ammunition should bear the exact same designation. Just because a cartridge fits into your gun does not mean it is safe to fire. Firearms are designed, manufactured and tested to standards based on factory loaded ammunition. Hand-loaded or reloaded ammunition deviating from factory specifications should not be used. Use only the correct ammunition for your firearm. Attempting to fire even a single improper bullet can destroy your gun and cause serious personal injury or death.

[dawg23]

Master Blaster:

You are correct, sir. The Glock manual tells the owner to fire ONLY factory ammo.

Now, maybe you can tell us where to buy .45ACP, .40 S&W, 9mm 10mm and .357Sig FACTORY ammo that is NOT jacketed.

When Glock says shoot only factory ammo, they mean jacketed ammo.

Chipperman was right - the guy broke 2 rules - and blew up a $500 pistol just to save a few pennies per round. NOt real bright.

[jk0]

10mm factory cast lead ammo for sale at Ammoman.com:

http://www.ammoman.com/webstore_10mm.htm


Not all factory ammo is jacketed!

[C.R.Sam]

Not all factory ammo is jacketed!

Amen.

Sam

[Gewehr98]

As I look at what's loaded in my J-frame - factory lead.



I've seen all sorts of exploded handguns in 10 years of rangemastering. SAA's, 1911's, Glocks, Broomhandles, even a SIG.

Maybe these Glock kB!'s are popping up because there's so darned many of the guns out there in use?

[Master Blaster]

Here you Go SIR

http://www.carrollbullets.com/leadammo.htm

[Powderman]

Folks, here is a reply that I posted on another thread concerning Glocks and lead bullets. Done after minimal research, it might prove interesting.

____________________________________________________


Okay, guys, once more:

DO NOT SHOOT LEAD BULLETS THROUGH YOUR GLOCK HANDGUN, AS EQUIPPED WITH THE FACTORY BARREL.

The handgun was designed to function and perform with JACKETED bullets. DO NOT USE LEAD.

If you want a reference, well, I got the best that I could find. May not be good enough for some of you technical folks that "know better". If you want, you may speak first hand to the folks that gave me the information.

Their telephone number is 770-432-1202. In case you're interested, it's the Glock factory in Smyrna, GA.

The tech that I spoke to stated the following:

1. The factory fires 6000 rounds PER DAY through various Glock handguns.

2. The techs there DELIBERATELY shoot high pressure loads (blue pills), shoot into obstructions in the barrel, and purposely blow guns up to inspect and to analyze them.

3. The guy I spoke to said that his carry gun is a G23, with 13,000 documented rounds fired through it so far. He has been with Glock since 1990, and has been a gunsmith for 23 years.

So, I guess for all you ballisticians out there that can outguess the factory, this still might not be good enough.

I choose to heed the warnings from the guys that manufacture the pistols--DON'T SHOOT LEAD IN THE GLOCK.

Period.

[Kermit]

My G21 kaboomed on me last year not using lead...strictly FMJ's. When I spoke w/ the guy at Glock he told me that they would repair it & to stop shooting lead. Since they hadn't fixed it yet, I didn't argue w/ him, but I DON'T SHOOT LEAD in any of my guns. I have a nice little scar on my right hand to remember the event

[dawg23]

JKO:

OK - so you found one or two lead factory loads for a semi-automatic pistol. You make my point - you had to search to find the exception to the rule.


Master Blaster:

Ok - you found a commercial reloader in CT ??



Bottom Line- if you are foolish enough to shoot reloads of ANY description, just to save a few pennies, you're asking for trouble. Glock says "don't" - Beretta says "don't" - which part is it that you don't understand ??

[Master Blaster]

Impossible Glocks are Perfection, Never Kaboom with FMJ!!!!!

So Please tell us more about the Kaboom, was it a case head seperation?
How many rounds did you have through it?

What type of ammo was it? It was "Factory" Ammo Right?

Could it be that the striker stuck extended and the gun fired out of battery when the slide returned?

Please tell us more

Thanks

[Mal H]

Master Blaster - Please re-read the first post. 3 out of 4 of your questions will be answered.

[isaidme]

The guy must not have read the glock manual.It clearly says not to shoot lead ammo or reloads.I dont shoot them out of my 1911 either.He should have bought a Barsto if he wanted to shoot lead.Expensive and dangerious way to learn a lesson!

[Gewehr98]

Taking my Dillon and Hornady presses out to the dumpster, don't wanna get hurt, ya know!