Want to Piss of HCI?? The Second Coming...

[El Jefe]

WOW, I am impressed! That thread ran the whole gamut http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/fo...threadid=23934 (link added, DC)

For those that are new or just running accrossed this for the first time here is the down and dirty....Last week I discovered that HCI was using a blurred version of a Beretta 92F/96F on it's website (www.handguncontrol.org) Being a Loyal Beretta owner and a Second Amendment Advocate I posted My objection here (Want to piss off HCI?..) knowing that HCI did not have permission from Beretta to use it's famous pistol as it's posterchild for gun control I encouraged my fellow compatriots here on TFL to call Beretta Legal Offices @ 301-283-2191 ask for the legal Dept and express thier concern. Beretta has the legal teeth to take on HCI We just need to point that Rottweiler in the right direction! Encourage others until that gun is removed and they put another one in there, then we start the process over, (That is if they are that dumb) Additionally Keith Rogan came up with an E-mail address for Beretta's Leadership forum [email protected] and I Encouraged Everyone to E-mail as well as call! Our response was overwhelming, some members including myself took the post to other boards and spread the word even further ( thanks Keith and Solo! and Anyone else for that matter.) The Word spread Like wildfire and Beretta was inundated with phone calls and e-mails which caused them to take action (See the large Disclaimer on Beretta's website www.berettausa.com) They have the corporate might to do it so we need to encourage them. HCI's only response to this whole thing was to take down their site for the better part of a day and Clarify their position....They made the Beretta 92 highly distinguishable! No mistaking it now!! We continued to cry foul and it appears that Beretta is Taking or at least preparing Legal action.... Oh yeah I got a great looking certificate and a nomination for President.. LOL that brings us to date!

This whole thing is getting HUGE I am seeing a great response on other sites as well, none quite so large as the TFL however! Let me encourage you one more time CALL and E-mail not only to let Beretta Know that you are upset that HCI can Blatently use their Highly respected handgun as a poster child for gun control but to encourage them as well, let them know that this is a precedent setting situation and the whole world is watching their next move! Also let them know that you will gladly stand behind them in their efforts to get their Handgun off of HCI's page!! HCI Basically snubbed their nose at Beretta by clearing up that picture so it sounds as though the gloves are off!

I have also brought over one of my last posts...Couldn't find an E-mail for HCI however here is their Address and Phone Number. Distasteful as it may be to see that phone number appear on your phone bill it is but a small price to pay considering what we have to lose. Call them and let them have it, Stay reasonable and ensure that they know that you will Support Beretta in whatever Action they decide to take against them. Let them know that you are sending the NRA a donation to further OUR cause!! Let them know that you are sick of thier ravings and it has to end. Copy that letter to HCI I wrote and use that as a reference or mail it to them etc etc...
Director of Development ( hell Put Sarah Brady's name here)
Center to Prevent Handgun Violence
1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20005
(202) 289-7319
Ugh!

And finally that brings us to GWINNY's Question. If you put your name and return address on it they KNOW who to remove off of their mailing list so you can only pull that off once No name they cannot remove you and you will continue to receive their Pre paid Envelopes allowing you to mail them another letter on their dime etc etc etc. I know others are concerned for other reasons but that is one major one...Back to the trenches..

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...“ They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” --Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

..."The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." --Thomas Jefferson

... "The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure." Albert Einstein

... "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction."Ronald Reagan
Take care and God Bless, El Jefe

[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited September 16, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by DC (edited September 23, 1999).]

[Keith Rogan]

El Jefe,

The thunder is spreading through various NRA grass roots networks, Libertarian networks and even as of last night, the "Appalachian network". This was also picked up by some constitutional minded national police organization but my correspondent didn't mention the name.

Democracy at work!


(800) 636-3420

[email protected]



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

[Art Eatman]

And if enough people wrap that pre-paid HCI envelope around something heavy--and USPS-legal--it wrecks HCI's budget for mischief-making!

, Art

[Keith Rogan]

Good God! What a tangled web the internet is, you put something out and it gets to the most important people in the most odd ways.

I sent the word out to the "Appalachian network" (a gun toting bunch to be sure..) and from there it went out to a group who call themselves the "Celt/Scots Net" where it was picked up by a cop named MacKenzie. This MacKenzie is a Beretta expert (and 2nd amendment fan) who was the technical advisor on a recent History Channel special on the Beretta (I think they may be referring to "The History of the Gun" serial currently running. He is of course close to the lord high muckety mucks at Beretta.
At any rate, I'm going to try to contact MacKenzie directly and see if we can't get some insider info on whats happening at Beretta.

More later.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

[othermarc]

This whole thing brings a tear to my eye. Great Going El Jefe, and everyone else! Simply Beautiful.

Anyone wonder where they got the photo? Does someone from HCI have a Bereatta? Or did they illegally lift the photo from someone?

[This message has been edited by othermarc (edited September 16, 1999).]

othermarc...... it could have been loaned to them by fienstien.... she packs.....

[Gwinnydapooh]

Aaahhhh. That makes sense. Thanks boss.

[El Jefe]

Start a Wildfire and fan the flames, see what happens?? I did notice that Beretta returned it's website back to normal no more disclaimer...Be that as it may it's seems that we have gotten the worlds attention Again only through the grass roots effort put forth by all of those here and at a couple of other sites. We have managed to get the ear of a major firearms manufacturer and set them against the enemy, The outcome of this showdown will be a precedent setting if not history making event. As some have pointed out it is yet another way to drain the reserves of the anti's to preclude them from lining pockets and pushing their Anti-gun Agenda!!

Keith, sounds as though you may have your ear to the ground elsewhere so keep us posted. We will all be interested to hear the outcome!! Wonder if Sister Sarah feels that Burr under her Saddle yet?? Or hears the approach of the Beretta Guard dogs?? Time will tell....Well off I go back into the trenches, good work all!

[El Jefe]

In Case you hadn't noticed your continued support in this matter and spreading it to other forums has caused Beretta Corporation to once again post its large blue placard back on it's website www.berettausa.com So keep encouraging them, keep spreading the word the fire is hot and we cannot afford to let it go out now!! Stay vigilant...

------------------
...“ They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” --Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

..."The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." --Thomas Jefferson

... "The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure." Albert Einstein

... "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction."Ronald Reagan
Take care and God Bless, El Jefe

[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited September 17, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited September 17, 1999).]

[nralife]

(a post from my board)

More fun for HCI
by Doc Hudson

Check out the HCI mainpage at: www.handguncontrol.org

Pay special attention to the MASS(Mothers Against Senseless Shootings) Logo. Doesen't that look like an H&K pistol?

Maybe we should start another e-mail campaign.

Doc

http://www.netbabbler.com/goto/index.php3?forumid=12204

Joe's Second Amendment Message Board

PS: Damn it, I vote to turn the HTML back on for this board! ;-) Why was it turned off?


[This message has been edited by nralife (edited September 17, 1999).]

[El Jefe]

NRALIFE, I agree and disagree all in the same sentence, it does look like the silohette of an H&K however look how long it took Beretta to get it's hackles up over a blurred picture of the actual thing? Later when HCI Clarified the picture the intent was obvious Beretta released the Hounds! lets win the precedent setting case first then go broaden our horizens If you didn't get that far on page two of HCI's webpage (under Information) I am sure some could readily Identify that revolver as well yet I do not believe that we would get very far with the assertion that they are deliberately misusing a ?? Chiefs Special??
If it were an actual picture then now we would have a problem I believe, but a sillouhette or a watermark that may be stretching it. I believe that if it is readily identifiable as a specific manufacturers product then we have an issue. Lets win this one at a time and go for the sure things....Just my opinion, good looking out on your part, keep up the good work. El Jefe

[nralife]

El Jefe,

I was just reposting something that one of my regulars posted on one of my boards. Do with it as you will.

I have been spreading the word about your little campaign over here from the beginning. I wish you well. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Joe

Joe's Second Amendment Message Board

[El Jefe]

NRALIFE, I hope you took no personal affront to my last post, none was intended I assure you. I appreciate the work you and the others have done, as I said before none of this would have gotten off of the ground if it were not for people such as yourself taking an active intrest and Posting/e-mailing/calling etc. Rest assured that I am following this closely and I have even called Berettas legal department to see what Further action if any is taking place, when and if I find something out I will post it here....Now I am gonna go visit your site! Again keep looking for more opportunities and let us know!

Keith anything further on your end??
El Jefe

[Keith Rogan]

El Jefe,

I have not yet gotten in touch with my possible "insider".
I did learn some interesting info over on Delphi though. Apparently, Beretta and HCI recently tangled in another legal battle. HCI lost badly and had to pay not only damages but the Beretta legal fee's. I don't have anything more specific on that as yet.
Surely, Beretta's legal team will make the case that HCI is using a Beretta pistol as revenge for their earlier defeat.
If I do get ahold of this guy with an "in" at Beretta, I'll make sure the sharks have your name to toast at their next victory over HCI.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

[DC]

While searching for something unrelated I came across this from our archives...

HCI still chaffing, ya think?
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/fo...threadid=22454

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

[Keith Rogan]

DC,

That is no doubt the very case that my friends were referring to. Thanks for posting that.
I'm no lawyer but I think the Beretta sharks could very well make the case that HCI is using the Beretta as a form of revenge for this case.
I hope they break HCI with the damages this time.
I wonder if the people who donate to HCI will continue if they see all their money going into the coffers of gun manufacturers?



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

[DC]

Keith..
Yep, its the same case. HCI had a lot riding on this one...lots and lots of pre-trial rhetoric and publicity, the Bay area...they were positive they were going to win. Note that HCI was ordered to pay the Beretta legal fees, yet they weren't a plaintiff. HCI basically talked this guy..Mr. Dix, into sueing and provided him their lawyers. Their legal premise was weak....failure to provide smart gun technology (a non-existant technology), they tried to portray the teenagers as little kids and hence held Beretta responsible for not child proofing the gun, etc.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

[El Jefe]

Keith I knew about the lawsuit however not the exact details, Now thanks to DC I know the content and it further outrages me!! The portrayal of the Beretta 92/96 on HCI's website, given this new information is just proves that they did it with malice of forethought! They did not randomly select a Beretta they Deliberately selected a Beretta; tell me that they can't show some sort of Malicious intent??

Keith keep your ear to the ground, your insider may prove useful, I am still going to attempt to worm it out of Beretta come Monday or Tuesday and I will let everyone know. Stay alert

------------------
...“ They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” --Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

..."The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." --Thomas Jefferson

... "The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure." Albert Einstein

... "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction."Ronald Reagan
Take care and God Bless, El Jefe

[El Jefe]

I contacted Beretta USA today and their legal Begal was unavailable (Imagine that) So I sent a rather intense e-mail to Marayanne Albert ([email protected]) Of the leadership forum. In It I told her that I was appreciative of Beretta's desire to reslove this quickly however Inquiring minds want to know....Just what action Beretta is Taking IF ANY?? Can they do something or not?? What if anything can we do to help?? Hopefully I get a response back soon...Stay in the trenches..El Jefe

One additional note...I noticed that the Grips on the Beretta on HCI's webpage were not standard, again an attempt to make it look generic, However the grip also looks familiar They are not Hogues, but they do look like Farrar's Prestige Grip, (I cannot find any reference to them on the net.) If not Farrar then who?? If they are recognizable then we could up the Ante by Calling/E-mailing that Co. as well. I could swear they are the Prestige grip made by Farrar Tool Company, Inc. But I do not have a good phone number. they used to be in Santa Fe Springs, CA. Ph. 213-863-4367 Not there anymore however! Any ideas? El Jefe

[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited September 20, 1999).]

[Gwinnydapooh]

How about this one? It's an ad by the Ad Council for an "anti-crime" group that strikes me more as anti-gun than anything else. For instance, the quote that you're better off not EVER carrying a weapon, because "you lose, whether you use it or it's used on you." How do they figure that one? The way I brain it, if somebody tries to kill me and I stop him, I just WON, even if I had to use an icky, evil firearm to do it. What do y'all think? I'm not sure how recognizable the gun really is since it's obscured. It looks like some kind of S & W but maybe not, I'm not a handgun guy. Still, if we could get S & W on these people with precedent from the Beretta case (assuming we win that, of course) it could be even more fun.
The link to the Ad Council's crap site is:
Ad Council's Bull**** Anti Website

[This message has been edited by Gwinnydapooh (edited September 21, 1999).]

[DonL]

I looked for the above image to see if a better or more recognizable version was available of the pistol, hey, it's a burr in HCI's saddle, why not the Ad Council, but could not find it on the site. I did find this on a different page, though, while talking about the reasons for school violence:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
-Obscene accessibility of firearms and other weapons;
-Isolation, volcanic anger, and wrenching pain infecting the shooters;
-Lack of skills to vent the anger and assuage the pain;
-No trusted adults to turn to.
[/quote]
Good grief. "Obscene"? "Volcanic"? I guess the only way to try to make a point is make it valid, or sensationalize it. They went for the latter. Oh, and who do they consider "trusted adults"? They're making generalizations and blaming "adults" now? I need my Pepto...


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Don LeHue

The pen is mightier than the sword...outside of arms reach. Modify radius accordingly for rifle.

[El Jefe]

Gwinny,
I tried as well and could not come up with a better image or the site to which we could direct the Gun Manufacturers legal Dept. They may have removed it. I checked through their list of banners,and nothing, do you have a good link?? Post it and I will go... Great Catch...El Jefe

[Gwinnydapooh]

I don't think it is on their site. It's part of their advertising rotation. I'm not sure if that's actually an Ad Council site or if they just use the Ad Council to do their advertising but if you go to my site on Geocities: http://www.geocities.com/gwinnydapooh
There's a banner at the top that Geocities places. It rotates so you just have to click "Refresh" until you see one with a gun sticking out of a schoolbag. I think the Ad Council ones run in a clump if it helps. Meanwhile, it looks like the link to the pic stopped working, which is odd since it's linked to a saved version in my Geocities account and I didn't delete it. Let me check on that.
(begin edit)
Well, dammit, it disappeared on me. The address for an easier way to try to rotate the ads is http://www.geocities.com/gwinnydapoo...weprevent.html this is a blank page with nothing but the ad rotation so it reloads fast but the Ad Council ads don't seem to be in the rotation tonight. If I see it again I'll flag this thread back up to the top.
By the way, the address of the site we're talking about here is http://www.weprevent.org and it's actually the site of the NCPC (National Council to Prevent Crime?) the McGruff the Crime dog people.

[This message has been edited by Gwinnydapooh (edited September 23, 1999).]

[metro25]

That looks like a Browning Hi-Power with Pachmayr grips.

[Gwinnydapooh]

OK, I screwed up. I have too many homepages! The ad, apparently, actually runs on my InsideTheWeb debate forum. If you go to The Racism Debate and cycle through, you'll see it within 5 or 6 reloads. It was staring me in the face when I opened it up today. Sorry about that.