Broke my HK USPc .45 (long)

greg c · October 1, 2000, 11:11 AM

Yeah, I heard the rumors about firing pin breakage. I still dry fire(d) my USPc .45 as much as I could. It had about 2.5-3K rounds of various ammo through it with only a few bobbles at the very start.
Yesterday I was at the range, blew off some S&B as well as Blazer .45 before I tore into some 230 gr Hydrashoks- on the fifth round my slide locked back and something whapped me on the right shoulder.
Inspected the gun and found a hole where the firing pin used to be staring back at me! Looked down and saw the broken half of the firing pin on the ground, looked in the firing pin slot and saw that the remained of the pin is still locked in place by the retaining pin. The slide was locked because the firing pin safety plunger was sticking out and had gotten hung up on the hammer as the slide was attempting to go back into battery. THe broken firing pin has a fairly clean break in it- it looks similar to what would happen if you took a cast piece of metal and broke it- but I seriously doubt this piece is cast.
Wouldn't you know I had finally decided to make this gun the permanent carry piece? I finished off the rest of the day's drills with a Kimber classic and now I have to call HK on Monday and get a return authorization number! AAACK!!

Morgan · October 1, 2000, 11:17 AM

Rumor Control has it that there were some improperly heat treated (brittle) firing pins in one lot of 45 Compacts. No other model has had any such problems.

The replacement should be properly heat treated and never break. Let us know what H&K have to say about this...

BrokenArrow · October 1, 2000, 01:24 PM

Some time ago there was a guy on the HK list who broke 3 or 4 of them in the same pistol. If there was a bad run of pins, looks like HK doesn't (or didn't) have a clue which ones, since his replacements didn't do any better?

Imagine the odds on that?

------------------
>>>>---->

parabellum · October 1, 2000, 01:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Morgan:
Rumor Control has it that there were some improperly heat treated (brittle) firing pins in one lot of 45 Compacts. No other model has had any such problems.

The replacement should be properly heat treated and never break. Let us know what H&K have to say about this...[/quote]

Morgan, if you're saying that firing pin breakage while firing live ammo is a problem exclusive to the USP45C, then you may be correct. But, firing pin breakage, usually as a result of dryfiring, has been reported in all models and calibers of the USP.

Just ask the folks at the HKforum

[This message has been edited by parabellum (edited October 01, 2000).]

DAKODAKID · October 1, 2000, 01:31 PM

I love HK pistols and never had a hint of a problems with all mine, but it is a piece of machinery and
mechanical parts do break,
[off-color joke removed.]
----moderator comment----
Friend,
Think of it this way: TFL has few women on it...possibly because of humor such as this. However, TFL has enough women on it that you are likely annoying other members. We wish to keep this a forum where people could invite their kids or their old-fashioned genteel neighbors. DO help us out in that quest.
---thanks----
any questions, drop me an email at [email protected]

Oleg Volk

[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited October 01, 2000).]

parabellum · October 1, 2000, 01:35 PM

Thank you, Oleg!

[This message has been edited by parabellum (edited October 01, 2000).]

J.T.King · October 1, 2000, 04:47 PM

Hey!

I am one of those who reported a broken firing pin on TFL about 8 months ago. This was a FULL SIZE USP45 and it had only 200+ rounds through it at the time.

I was dry-firing on a snap cap and had pulled the trigger maybe 200 more times.

snap!-Sproing! parts...

You shouldnt need to skip it back to HK. Just go to your nearest HK authorized gun shop and they will swap it there. Thats what I did.

I wil ladmit tho, its not conducive to making me feel cofident!

J.T.

OF · October 1, 2000, 05:12 PM

What snap caps were you guys using? Brass-style caps or the polymer 'Azoom' caps?

I dry-fire my USP40 alot, I found the brass caps would develop a dent in the 'primer' almost right away. Switched to the Azoom caps (Dillon has them) and no more dents. I wonder if dented caps could be allowing the pin to slam forward freely?

- gabe

7th Fleet · October 1, 2000, 05:23 PM

But, firing pin breakage, usually as a result of dryfiring, has been reported in all models and calibers of the USP.>>>>>>

I have repeatedly heard the same thing from several different sources, I am a LEO Firearms Instructor and my sources are usually other Firearms Instructors, factory reps, LEO seminars, etc, not your run of the mill, gunshop commando kind of scuttle butt.

7th

------------------
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.

DAKODAKID · October 1, 2000, 05:41 PM

My apologies to the board and its members on my bad joke.

Skorzeny · October 1, 2000, 06:08 PM

Let me get this straight here. What you folks are telling me is that USP and Compact models MAY break firing pins even if one uses a snapcap to dry fire?

That's pretty unbelievable. H&K makes the firearms to be "component failure" free for 20,000 rounds, but with a break-prone firing pin?

That really shakes my confidence in my USP40 Compact!

Skorzeny

------------------
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

parabellum · October 1, 2000, 08:07 PM

Yeah, amazing, huh? That's why I have an NIB USP 45 fullsize with three 12 round mags that I'm seriously thinking of selling. I bought it at teh end of last year. Then, before I had a chance to fire it, I started seeing all these firing pin breakage stories. I mean, it just floors me that a pistol from a reputable company such as H&K, that costs as much as this thing did, will break parts from simplre dry firing. Not to mention the fact that H&K refuses to acknowledge the problem. That may have flown in the days before the internet allowed the rapid spread of information, but not now.

Watchman · October 1, 2000, 08:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by parabellum:
Yeah, amazing, huh? That's why I have an NIB USP 45 fullsize with three 12 round mags that I'm seriously thinking of selling. I bought it at teh end of last year. Then, before I had a chance to fire it, I started seeing all these firing pin breakage stories. I mean, it just floors me that a pistol from a reputable company such as H&K, that costs as much as this thing did, will break parts from simplre dry firing. Not to mention the fact that H&K refuses to acknowledge the problem. That may have flown in the days before the internet allowed the rapid spread of information, but not now.[/quote]
Hey Im in the market ! How much ?

parabellum · October 1, 2000, 10:32 PM

Watchman, check your email please, sir.

greg c · October 18, 2000, 07:15 PM

Ok, my USPc .45 came back today- no answer from my query as to the frequency of firing pin breakage in the letter I sent, but the firing pin is replaced as well as a freebie set of tritium sights that I requested as restitution for this gun being sent in *twice* now. (the first time was for some feeding difficulty). So I am satisfied, I just need to go out and shoot the snot out of it to determine whether it goes back into the carry rotation.

DAKODAKID · October 18, 2000, 10:23 PM

I have the whole family of USP pistols and through my own personal torture tests,(including dry firing thousands and thousands of times with no snap-caps,not cleaning it and trying to make it fail) has resulted in no problems what-so-ever!!!
I would stake my families life on these pistols because I too heard all the "horror"
stories about HK and personally found them to be unfounded...
Please read my above post--sans the "bad" joke and I think you will see what I mean..
after all,
No matter how good something is there is always a % that there will be problems....
those who want to hear my "original bad comment" can e-mail me.
HK to me is bascially idiot proof!!!!

------------------
ACCOUNT FOR EVERY SHOT
AND MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT

greg c · October 18, 2000, 10:43 PM

*Bla-blam!*

[This message has been edited by greg c (edited October 18, 2000).]

greg c · October 18, 2000, 10:44 PM

DAKODAVID: I am glad to hear that you have been so fortunate with your USP family. I wish I were as content as you. I think this board is about free sharing of thoughts and experiences, and I thought that some would find this personal experience interesting if not educational, which it may or may not be. I can assure you, though, that one thing it is NOT is unfounded. I will be more than happy to provide you with a photocopy of the receipt I was sent with the repaired slide which details the work performed as well as the smith who worked on it and the repair record number. Email me with your address.

Idiot proof, huh? *chuckles*

DAKODAKID · October 19, 2000, 07:03 AM

Maybe Idiot proof was not the right word.
I do believe you and fortunatly I have not experienced any problems.
I know of 2 police officers USP compacts KB'using bad wolf ammo while firing at the local range..
NO gun is totally impervious to mechanical failures..
Sorry to hear about your bad experience..

greg c · October 19, 2000, 01:49 PM

DAKODAKID- I think I just had the usual case of internet misunderstanding. I hope your USP's keep on chugging! Mine will get abused this weekend!

BTW, my GF agrees with the term idiot. *sigh*

Mike H · October 19, 2000, 04:14 PM

All this talk of self disassembling USP's has got me interested.

DakoDavid,

Do you recall which models of USP compact were wrecked by the wolf ammo and what was the nature of the KB ?

I like my handguns to be stronger than my cologne, I recall that one test HK performed with the USP9 was to jam a bullet half way down the barrel and "chase it" out with a live round. Although the barrel bulged a little, there was no KB, and the gun would still shoot afterwards.

Mike H

Oris · October 19, 2000, 05:15 PM

Mike,

I also like guns to be mechanically strong.

Of course, frame of semiauto pistol is not
the most stressed part, 'cause all action
happenes above it. Still, ask yourself a question - why do you not see revolvers
with polymer frames? Logically, it shouldn't
be a problem if, as some people claim, polymer in handguns is as strong as steel.
Revolver frame is pretty stressed part, no doubt about it. But no, nobody makes polymer frame revolvers, and if there is a desire
to cut some weight, titanium is used, and
thank you, no polymer...

Just a little observation on the abstract subject of handgun "strength".

DAKODAKID · October 19, 2000, 07:23 PM

The guns were NIB HK .45 compact shooting .230 gr Wolf ammo..
The quality control of Russian Wolf is atrocious.
The autos seperated along the slide rails..
Neither officer was hurt thank God ..
The ammo was WAY overloaded and this could happen to any gun..KB...(even wheelguns)
Rugers are probably the most durable of the modern revolvers and I USED to also think polymer guns were inferior..
Any gun is bascially a hand grenade with improperly loaded cartridges.

ether · October 19, 2000, 09:28 PM

Oris - I don't think anyone claims that polymer frames are stronger than steel frames. What I have heard is that, pound-for-pound, polymer is stronger than steel. This means, with polymer, you get a much lighter pistol in the same size package that is strong enough. Polymer is certainly more resilient than steel. In polymer autos, the steel slide slams into the frame with each shot, and the polymer absorbs alot of the recoil, which is a plus. As you know, revolvers work much differently, and using polymer for the frame or whatever is just not a viable option. As far as I know, there just aren't any parts on a revolver where using polymer can be a benefit.

Will Beararms · October 19, 2000, 09:47 PM

I know the feeling when one puts out serious cash on a weapon only to find out that they could have bought an American-made product for half the price that would still be shooting.

I saw my father as well as two other fellow hunters spend $1,100.00 on Benelli Super Black Eagles that turned out to be a pieces of junk. I bought a Sig P239 .40 when they first came out that was junk.

Now, I shoot Ruger P series handguns, hunt duck with Remington shotguns and hunt deer with a plain jane Marlin 336W and they just keep working and working and working.

I'm to the point now where I don't care what anyone thinks as long as I am happy.

October 1, 2000, 11:11 AM	#1
greg c Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2000 Location: Phoenix Az Posts: 113	Yeah, I heard the rumors about firing pin breakage. I still dry fire(d) my USPc .45 as much as I could. It had about 2.5-3K rounds of various ammo through it with only a few bobbles at the very start. Yesterday I was at the range, blew off some S&B as well as Blazer .45 before I tore into some 230 gr Hydrashoks- on the fifth round my slide locked back and something whapped me on the right shoulder. Inspected the gun and found a hole where the firing pin used to be staring back at me! Looked down and saw the broken half of the firing pin on the ground, looked in the firing pin slot and saw that the remained of the pin is still locked in place by the retaining pin. The slide was locked because the firing pin safety plunger was sticking out and had gotten hung up on the hammer as the slide was attempting to go back into battery. THe broken firing pin has a fairly clean break in it- it looks similar to what would happen if you took a cast piece of metal and broke it- but I seriously doubt this piece is cast. Wouldn't you know I had finally decided to make this gun the permanent carry piece? I finished off the rest of the day's drills with a Kimber classic and now I have to call HK on Monday and get a return authorization number! AAACK!!

October 1, 2000, 11:17 AM	#2
Morgan Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Posts: 945	Rumor Control has it that there were some improperly heat treated (brittle) firing pins in one lot of 45 Compacts. No other model has had any such problems. The replacement should be properly heat treated and never break. Let us know what H&K have to say about this...

October 1, 2000, 01:24 PM	#3
BrokenArrow Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1998 Posts: 966	Some time ago there was a guy on the HK list who broke 3 or 4 of them in the same pistol. If there was a bad run of pins, looks like HK doesn't (or didn't) have a clue which ones, since his replacements didn't do any better? Imagine the odds on that? ------------------ >>>>---->

October 1, 2000, 01:30 PM	#4
parabellum Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 251	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Morgan: Rumor Control has it that there were some improperly heat treated (brittle) firing pins in one lot of 45 Compacts. No other model has had any such problems. The replacement should be properly heat treated and never break. Let us know what H&K have to say about this...[/quote] Morgan, if you're saying that firing pin breakage while firing live ammo is a problem exclusive to the USP45C, then you may be correct. But, firing pin breakage, usually as a result of dryfiring, has been reported in all models and calibers of the USP. Just ask the folks at the HKforum [This message has been edited by parabellum (edited October 01, 2000).]

October 1, 2000, 01:31 PM	#5
DAKODAKID Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2000 Posts: 436	I love HK pistols and never had a hint of a problems with all mine, but it is a piece of machinery and mechanical parts do break, [off-color joke removed.] ----moderator comment---- Friend, Think of it this way: TFL has few women on it...possibly because of humor such as this. However, TFL has enough women on it that you are likely annoying other members. We wish to keep this a forum where people could invite their kids or their old-fashioned genteel neighbors. DO help us out in that quest. ---thanks---- any questions, drop me an email at [email protected] Oleg Volk [This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited October 01, 2000).]

October 1, 2000, 01:35 PM	#6
parabellum Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 251	Thank you, Oleg! [This message has been edited by parabellum (edited October 01, 2000).]

October 1, 2000, 04:47 PM	#7
J.T.King Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 345	Hey! I am one of those who reported a broken firing pin on TFL about 8 months ago. This was a FULL SIZE USP45 and it had only 200+ rounds through it at the time. I was dry-firing on a snap cap and had pulled the trigger maybe 200 more times. snap!-Sproing! parts... You shouldnt need to skip it back to HK. Just go to your nearest HK authorized gun shop and they will swap it there. Thats what I did. I wil ladmit tho, its not conducive to making me feel cofident! J.T.

October 1, 2000, 05:12 PM	#8
OF Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2000 Posts: 2,239	What snap caps were you guys using? Brass-style caps or the polymer 'Azoom' caps? I dry-fire my USP40 alot, I found the brass caps would develop a dent in the 'primer' almost right away. Switched to the Azoom caps (Dillon has them) and no more dents. I wonder if dented caps could be allowing the pin to slam forward freely? - gabe

October 1, 2000, 05:23 PM	#9
7th Fleet Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2000 Posts: 1,469	But, firing pin breakage, usually as a result of dryfiring, has been reported in all models and calibers of the USP.>>>>>> I have repeatedly heard the same thing from several different sources, I am a LEO Firearms Instructor and my sources are usually other Firearms Instructors, factory reps, LEO seminars, etc, not your run of the mill, gunshop commando kind of scuttle butt. 7th ------------------ SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.

October 1, 2000, 05:41 PM	#10
DAKODAKID Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2000 Posts: 436	My apologies to the board and its members on my bad joke.

October 1, 2000, 06:08 PM	#11
Skorzeny Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 1999 Posts: 1,938	Let me get this straight here. What you folks are telling me is that USP and Compact models MAY break firing pins even if one uses a snapcap to dry fire? That's pretty unbelievable. H&K makes the firearms to be "component failure" free for 20,000 rounds, but with a break-prone firing pin? That really shakes my confidence in my USP40 Compact! Skorzeny ------------------ For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

October 1, 2000, 08:07 PM	#12
parabellum Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 251	Yeah, amazing, huh? That's why I have an NIB USP 45 fullsize with three 12 round mags that I'm seriously thinking of selling. I bought it at teh end of last year. Then, before I had a chance to fire it, I started seeing all these firing pin breakage stories. I mean, it just floors me that a pistol from a reputable company such as H&K, that costs as much as this thing did, will break parts from simplre dry firing. Not to mention the fact that H&K refuses to acknowledge the problem. That may have flown in the days before the internet allowed the rapid spread of information, but not now.

October 1, 2000, 08:14 PM	#13
Watchman Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: ARKANSAS Posts: 484	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by parabellum: Yeah, amazing, huh? That's why I have an NIB USP 45 fullsize with three 12 round mags that I'm seriously thinking of selling. I bought it at teh end of last year. Then, before I had a chance to fire it, I started seeing all these firing pin breakage stories. I mean, it just floors me that a pistol from a reputable company such as H&K, that costs as much as this thing did, will break parts from simplre dry firing. Not to mention the fact that H&K refuses to acknowledge the problem. That may have flown in the days before the internet allowed the rapid spread of information, but not now.[/quote] Hey Im in the market ! How much ?

October 1, 2000, 10:32 PM	#14
parabellum Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 251	Watchman, check your email please, sir.

October 18, 2000, 07:15 PM	#15
greg c Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2000 Location: Phoenix Az Posts: 113	Ok, my USPc .45 came back today- no answer from my query as to the frequency of firing pin breakage in the letter I sent, but the firing pin is replaced as well as a freebie set of tritium sights that I requested as restitution for this gun being sent in twice now. (the first time was for some feeding difficulty). So I am satisfied, I just need to go out and shoot the snot out of it to determine whether it goes back into the carry rotation.

October 18, 2000, 10:23 PM	#16
DAKODAKID Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2000 Posts: 436	I have the whole family of USP pistols and through my own personal torture tests,(including dry firing thousands and thousands of times with no snap-caps,not cleaning it and trying to make it fail) has resulted in no problems what-so-ever!!! I would stake my families life on these pistols because I too heard all the "horror" stories about HK and personally found them to be unfounded... Please read my above post--sans the "bad" joke and I think you will see what I mean.. after all, No matter how good something is there is always a % that there will be problems.... those who want to hear my "original bad comment" can e-mail me. HK to me is bascially idiot proof!!!! ------------------ ACCOUNT FOR EVERY SHOT AND MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT

October 18, 2000, 10:43 PM	#17
greg c Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2000 Location: Phoenix Az Posts: 113	Bla-blam! [This message has been edited by greg c (edited October 18, 2000).]

October 18, 2000, 10:44 PM	#18
greg c Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2000 Location: Phoenix Az Posts: 113	DAKODAVID: I am glad to hear that you have been so fortunate with your USP family. I wish I were as content as you. I think this board is about free sharing of thoughts and experiences, and I thought that some would find this personal experience interesting if not educational, which it may or may not be. I can assure you, though, that one thing it is NOT is unfounded. I will be more than happy to provide you with a photocopy of the receipt I was sent with the repaired slide which details the work performed as well as the smith who worked on it and the repair record number. Email me with your address. Idiot proof, huh? chuckles

October 19, 2000, 07:03 AM	#19
DAKODAKID Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2000 Posts: 436	Maybe Idiot proof was not the right word. I do believe you and fortunatly I have not experienced any problems. I know of 2 police officers USP compacts KB'using bad wolf ammo while firing at the local range.. NO gun is totally impervious to mechanical failures.. Sorry to hear about your bad experience..

October 19, 2000, 01:49 PM	#20
greg c Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2000 Location: Phoenix Az Posts: 113	DAKODAKID- I think I just had the usual case of internet misunderstanding. I hope your USP's keep on chugging! Mine will get abused this weekend! BTW, my GF agrees with the term idiot. sigh

October 19, 2000, 04:14 PM	#21
Mike H Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 1999 Posts: 1,159	All this talk of self disassembling USP's has got me interested. DakoDavid, Do you recall which models of USP compact were wrecked by the wolf ammo and what was the nature of the KB ? I like my handguns to be stronger than my cologne, I recall that one test HK performed with the USP9 was to jam a bullet half way down the barrel and "chase it" out with a live round. Although the barrel bulged a little, there was no KB, and the gun would still shoot afterwards. Mike H

October 19, 2000, 05:15 PM	#22
Oris Junior member Join Date: October 2, 1999 Posts: 566	Mike, I also like guns to be mechanically strong. Of course, frame of semiauto pistol is not the most stressed part, 'cause all action happenes above it. Still, ask yourself a question - why do you not see revolvers with polymer frames? Logically, it shouldn't be a problem if, as some people claim, polymer in handguns is as strong as steel. Revolver frame is pretty stressed part, no doubt about it. But no, nobody makes polymer frame revolvers, and if there is a desire to cut some weight, titanium is used, and thank you, no polymer... Just a little observation on the abstract subject of handgun "strength".

October 19, 2000, 07:23 PM	#23
DAKODAKID Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2000 Posts: 436	The guns were NIB HK .45 compact shooting .230 gr Wolf ammo.. The quality control of Russian Wolf is atrocious. The autos seperated along the slide rails.. Neither officer was hurt thank God .. The ammo was WAY overloaded and this could happen to any gun..KB...(even wheelguns) Rugers are probably the most durable of the modern revolvers and I USED to also think polymer guns were inferior.. Any gun is bascially a hand grenade with improperly loaded cartridges.

October 19, 2000, 09:28 PM	#24
ether Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2000 Posts: 169	Oris - I don't think anyone claims that polymer frames are stronger than steel frames. What I have heard is that, pound-for-pound, polymer is stronger than steel. This means, with polymer, you get a much lighter pistol in the same size package that is strong enough. Polymer is certainly more resilient than steel. In polymer autos, the steel slide slams into the frame with each shot, and the polymer absorbs alot of the recoil, which is a plus. As you know, revolvers work much differently, and using polymer for the frame or whatever is just not a viable option. As far as I know, there just aren't any parts on a revolver where using polymer can be a benefit.

October 19, 2000, 09:47 PM	#25
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	I know the feeling when one puts out serious cash on a weapon only to find out that they could have bought an American-made product for half the price that would still be shooting. I saw my father as well as two other fellow hunters spend $1,100.00 on Benelli Super Black Eagles that turned out to be a pieces of junk. I bought a Sig P239 .40 when they first came out that was junk. Now, I shoot Ruger P series handguns, hunt duck with Remington shotguns and hunt deer with a plain jane Marlin 336W and they just keep working and working and working. I'm to the point now where I don't care what anyone thinks as long as I am happy.